Good feedback, Manasurfer . Slide and Drift would be included in the deck no matter what, specifically for protecting Gavi, yeah. Your comments have helped me think about focusing a deck more on that sustained value and not explosive plays, meaning I'm now thinking of including the incidental token generators like Drake Haven, Spirit Cairn like you mentioned, etc., but only as that value generation for cycling cards and including less stuff to weaponize the tokens in general. Instead, I think it would be more effective and on theme now to include a lot of cycling, a lot of cycling payoff, such as the token generators, Unpredictable Cyclone, and more control elements like Slide/Drift, Snare Tactician, etc. to get to the late-game and happen to win with enough tokens, or an alternate win condition like Approach of the Second Sun or Thassa's Oracle since some of those win conditions are made better when you're cycling more and drawing more cards.
Okay, now that C20 (Ikoria Commander) commanders and decklists are revealed, I'm ready to start brewing what I'm drawn to most - Gavi, Nest Warden!
I'm at a bit of a crossroads with the potential directions on themes and strategies though, so I'd really appreciate some feedback on what the wider community thinks. I like to play decks with value engines and card advantage engines in the command zone, and my favorite things to do in any game is draw cards and cast big splashy spells (I like defined win conditions and don't like durdly decks), preferably for free: things like Rashmi, Eternities Crafter with Lurking Predators, Mind's Dilation, and Selvala's Stampede; or Yennet, Cryptic Sovereign with Angel of Serenity, Cavalier of Gales, Doom Whisperer, and Lord of the Void. I mention that because I see a lot of those themes in Gavi, which is what draws me (pun?) to Gavi and may help you all in directing where Gavi might be built. Cycling some cards for zero mana that offer some effect when cycled, to me, is akin to casting it for free, and Gavi promotes card draw to provide additional card advantage in 2/2 tokens. Plus, Dinosaur Cat Tokens! <3 <3 <3
In short, I'm seeing and liking a few different themes, but there's definitely no room to fit them all in a substantive way so I'd like to narrow down what may be more effective:
Soooo, as you can see I feel like there's some interesting juicy ways to go about things and a lot of these themes seem very interconnected, but it definitely seems like too much to all fit in one deck. For the cycling commander I feel like cycling should play a part in the show, but to what extent I'm not sure - I've never played a cycling deck myself. Do I fill a good majority of the list with cycling cards and hope to take advantage of blinking ETB abilities? If so, then do I lean more heavily toward ETB abilities that draw additional cards to make the 2/2 dino cats, or ETB abilities that make relatively more bodies that I can then weaponize easier? Or do I make the main source of card draw not in cycling multiple cards, but in instant-speed stuff and well established good static draw engines to trigger making the greatest amount of 2/2 dino cats as possible and then relying on weaponizing them? If weaponizing the tokens, would it be safer to stick to the tried and true cards that make mass bodies deadly, or try to incorporate pump spells with cycling to promote even more deck synergy?
As you can tell I'm pretty excited about Gavi and the directions a deck built around Gavi can go, but would like a bit of assistance and thoughts from others on what should really be the focus from these ideas! Thank you all so much in advance!
EDIT:
After posting this, Unpredictable Cyclone was spoiled and woah! I would definitely include this card cause free casting! With this addition, along with other specific cycling payoffs outside of token creation such as Snare Tactician, I'm much more inclined to focus on packing more cycling cards, having token generation a sub-theme or common incidental effect for cycling cards, and focus more on control and less on weaponizing the tokens generated, and using alternate win conditions like Approach of the Second Sun since cycling can help dig for it, or Thassa's Oracle since the deck would naturally want to draw a lot of cards.
Current EDH
UThassa, God of the Sea devotion control
WRGTana, the Bloodsower & Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa partners weenie tokens
UUnesh, Criosphinx Sovereign Sphinx tribal
WUTaigam, Ojutai Master tokens on the rebound spellslinger
GRhonas the Indomitable green creature beats
UGRashmi, Eternities Crafter ETB tribal
Retired EDH
WURGKynaios and Tiro of Meletis group hug
URThe Locust God draw swarm
UTalrand, Sky Summoner funsies blue spells
WBObzedat, Ghost Council life gain/drain
I'm at a bit of a crossroads with the potential directions on themes and strategies though, so I'd really appreciate some feedback on what the wider community thinks. I like to play decks with value engines and card advantage engines in the command zone, and my favorite things to do in any game is draw cards and cast big splashy spells (I like defined win conditions and don't like durdly decks), preferably for free: things like Rashmi, Eternities Crafter with Lurking Predators, Mind's Dilation, and Selvala's Stampede; or Yennet, Cryptic Sovereign with Angel of Serenity, Cavalier of Gales, Doom Whisperer, and Lord of the Void. I mention that because I see a lot of those themes in Gavi, which is what draws me (pun?) to Gavi and may help you all in directing where Gavi might be built. Cycling some cards for zero mana that offer some effect when cycled, to me, is akin to casting it for free, and Gavi promotes card draw to provide additional card advantage in 2/2 tokens. Plus, Dinosaur Cat Tokens! <3 <3 <3
In short, I'm seeing and liking a few different themes, but there's definitely no room to fit them all in a substantive way so I'd like to narrow down what may be more effective:
1. cycle (obviously);
2. ETB effects to abuse from cycling from Astral Slide, Astral Drift, and the new Escape Protocol, particularly of effects that draw additional cards such as Cloudblazer and Mulldrifter to make those likely cute cuddly tokens;
3. drawing additional cards on other turns through instant-speed stuff like Brainstorm, Glimmer of Genius, Frantic Search, Chemister's Insight, Hieroglyphic Illumination, Mystic Confluence, Pull From Tomorrow, etc. (really that list could go on forever) and some static abilities of permanents to guarantee drawing an additional card on my turn (outside of cycling) such as Rhystic Study, Mystic Remora, Nezahal, Primal Tide, Consecrated Sphinx, Mercurial Chemister, Dictate of Kruphix, Kumena's Awakening, Fevered Visions, and Loyal Drake to maximize making 2/2 tokens ( The Locust God thrown in for good measure );
4. and sticking more to the token theme with cycling payoffs such as Drake Haven, Improbable Alliance, and the new Valiant Rescuer by using ETB targets for Astral Slide/Drift that make more tokens such as Beetleback Chief, Siege-Gang Commander, Geist-Honored Monk, Myr Battlesphere, Emrakul's Hatcher, Chancellor of the Forge, Whirler Rogue, Maverick Thopterist, and Blade Splicer, and of course this would invite considering how to really weaponize those tokens into a win condition through things like Aven Wind Guide, Intangible Virtue, Anointed Procession, Divine Visitation, Ogre Battledriver, Impact Tremors, Purphoros, God of the Forge, Goblin Bombardment, etc. Really weaponizing the tokens in an aggressive way can even extend and interconnect with the cycling theme with things like Gleam of Resistance, Marshaling Cry, and Pursue Glory.
Soooo, as you can see I feel like there's some interesting juicy ways to go about things and a lot of these themes seem very interconnected, but it definitely seems like too much to all fit in one deck. For the cycling commander I feel like cycling should play a part in the show, but to what extent I'm not sure - I've never played a cycling deck myself. Do I fill a good majority of the list with cycling cards and hope to take advantage of blinking ETB abilities? If so, then do I lean more heavily toward ETB abilities that draw additional cards to make the 2/2 dino cats, or ETB abilities that make relatively more bodies that I can then weaponize easier? Or do I make the main source of card draw not in cycling multiple cards, but in instant-speed stuff and well established good static draw engines to trigger making the greatest amount of 2/2 dino cats as possible and then relying on weaponizing them? If weaponizing the tokens, would it be safer to stick to the tried and true cards that make mass bodies deadly, or try to incorporate pump spells with cycling to promote even more deck synergy?
As you can tell I'm pretty excited about Gavi and the directions a deck built around Gavi can go, but would like a bit of assistance and thoughts from others on what should really be the focus from these ideas! Thank you all so much in advance!
EDIT:
After posting this, Unpredictable Cyclone was spoiled and woah! I would definitely include this card cause free casting! With this addition, along with other specific cycling payoffs outside of token creation such as Snare Tactician, I'm much more inclined to focus on packing more cycling cards, having token generation a sub-theme or common incidental effect for cycling cards, and focus more on control and less on weaponizing the tokens generated, and using alternate win conditions like Approach of the Second Sun since cycling can help dig for it, or Thassa's Oracle since the deck would naturally want to draw a lot of cards.
Current EDH
UThassa, God of the Sea devotion control
WRGTana, the Bloodsower & Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa partners weenie tokens
UUnesh, Criosphinx Sovereign Sphinx tribal
WUTaigam, Ojutai Master tokens on the rebound spellslinger
GRhonas the Indomitable green creature beats
UGRashmi, Eternities Crafter ETB tribal
Retired EDH
WURGKynaios and Tiro of Meletis group hug
URThe Locust God draw swarm
UTalrand, Sky Summoner funsies blue spells
WBObzedat, Ghost Council life gain/drain