I can't get behind that change. The deck has no card draw and it can't possibly win if it misses any of its first 4 land drops. Realistically you want to go 5-for-5 every game and 24 just doesn't cut it. The straight math says that 24 lands is 72% to go 4-for-4 whereas 26 lands is 80% and once you factor the free MP mulligan, the London mulligan and Scry lands it's closer to 80% and 90% respectively. So essentially for every 10 games of Magic you get to play 9 of them instead of 8.
I'm expecting Idyllic Tutor to become affordable within the next few months so I've updated the list to include 4 copies. Not only does it help to ensure a turn 4 Fires but you can also tutor for + cast Assemble the Legion or Stolen Strategy on turn 5.
Personally, I find that I crave consistency more than power. The Boros versions of the deck are fine as long as you mulligan properly and draw the right cards but what I wouldn't give for a nice cantrip or Drawn from Dreams type effect. A big part of the appeal of Jeskai is Castle Vantress for card selection let alone all of the amazing Blue spells that you gain access to.
I'm actually starting to think that this might have to become a Serum Powder deck because it just doesn't do what I want it to unless I have a Fires. Though, I'm starting to lose interest in multiplayer somewhat with all of these mulligan changes because it's starting to feel like I can functionally palm a perfect 7 and play it every game. I might start a thread about it actually.
I don't think it matters much one way or another. Any combination in any reasonable quantity should be fine. If I had to rank my choices in a vacuum it would be 4lspeth, DV, 6lspeth but DV pops over to #1 if you add those 2x Westvale Abbeys. That's assuming 4x Assemble though. If you're cutting 2 go with Elspeths because DV is useless with Luminarch Ascension.
Preaching to the choir lol. Every time it's cast on me I flip Vampiric Tutor or w/e and every time I hit someone else they get something dumb like Sun Titan. I still run it because "it's the right thing to do" but I know what you mean about feeling cursed -_-.
Since it wasn't in my original reply I'll repost it here: Westvale Abbey is a low-opportunity cost way to turn 1/1s into a threat that matters and this deck can easily support 4. Ormendahl, Profane Prince doesn't give players much breathing room.
Jokulhaups seems like a nombo with Fires of invention?
It is, but that doesn't matter as long as you win. Turn 6 Luminarch Ascension/Assemble the Legion/Chandra, Awakened Inferno/etc. + Jokulhaups functionally ends the game a huge % of the time so it doesn't matter if Fires stops working after that. In my circles we don't even play those games out; we scoop and move on to the next one.
I mean, if I am putting blue duals of some sort in the deck, I really should just go Jeskai and if I am going three colors, I feel like Grixis is stronger
The deck certainly gets better the more colors that you play. I too wish that Boros has a usable draw spell. Maybe Endless Atlas + Fetches but even that's kinda meh. Idol of Oblivion is neat, especially if you add a couple more enablers like Kher Keep or whatever. Still doesn't feel great though.
[T]he deck needs either another finisher, OR it needs something to convert those 1/1 tokens into something better. Either a divine visitation, anointed procession or cathars' crusade type of effect would work, but I am not sure they warrant a spot.
If you want the "good" win condition feel free to add Godo, Bandit Warlord + Helm of the Host since it's a clean 1-card kill on turn 6. If people are going for OTKs themselves then that's likely your best bet. That's the one that I use if I'm trying to win.
Westvale Abbey is a low-opportunity cost way to turn 1/1s into a threat that matters and this deck can easily support 4. Ormendahl, Profane Prince doesn't give players much breathing room.
Also, is it just me or is chaos Warp just trash? Both times I used it, it backfired and put better things on the board, /smh
You could swap it for something like Generous Gift or any other decent piece of removal if you wanted. My meta has cards like Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre and Darksteel Forge so I like having access to a catch-all to deal with them. It's also rather spell-based in general which means plenty of whiffs. It's the most popular Red card in EDH for a reason but I'll certainly acknowledge that it won't necessarily work for everyone.
Wouldn't be my first choice. Ascension and Assemble typically don't need help winning games so I'd rather have something more efficient or powerful to help me when I'm behind. I try to avoid what I consider to be "win more" cards because you're usually neutral/behind in multiplayer games so that's what I focus on alleviating. It's still a reasonable and budget-minded option for rounding out the list but it's not something that I would field myself.
The deck is relatively flexible and doesn't "require" much other than good mass removal, Fires of Invention and some powerful mana sinks. As long as those requirements are met then you'll have a solid foundation with the rest being dealer's choice.
I almost never play "free-for-all" type of games and I always have one or two other players that I am looking to help and the possibility to haste their creatures or give them extra life can have a significant impact for me.
Fair enough. I hope you got your playset of Scheming Symmetrys too :)!
Kenny is typically fantastic in Fires shells but he shines in decks that have more creatures and/or different styles of Tokens. Angels don't need Trample since they already have Flying and 1/1s don't benefit from Trample either way. Haste is handy but irrelevant for Assemble. The lifegain is welcome but only relevant if you have a Fires out. You can obviously splash some 5C lands like Exotic Orchard and Shimmering Grotto to take advantage of his other modes but even then you're basically only getting access to his card draw functionality. While I do like him in general because he's an exceptionally powerful card I don't think that he's right for this specific build.
Yep that would be another fine option for rounding out the deck, especially in slower metas. Ramping into Fires on turn 3 is fantastic and it critically gives you a land as opposed to simply tapping for mana. The downside is that the card is basically only good if you see it on turn 1 and even then you also need a Fires to make it truly worthwhile. Still a solid inclusion :).
Hey team, wanted to share a Boros Fires deck that I've recently been fooling around with. The concept is simple; clear the board with mass removal, stick a Fires and ride durable threats such as Luminarch Ascension and Assemble the Legion to victory. Our colors enable us to play cheap interaction such as Swords to Plowshares, Wear // Tear and Generous Gift which ensure that we have answers to everything as long as it comes off the stack at some point. The only thing that deck truly lacks is a decent form of card draw so I'll sometimes added 2-4 copies of Ignite the Future to gives its best Harmonize impression. Otherwise we can sink our mana into things like Castle Ardenvale, Arch of Orazca and/or Luminarch Ascension while relying on Fires of Invention to do the heavy-lifting for our spells.
Helm of the Host reads "At the beginning of combat on your turn, create a token that's a copy of equipped creature, except the token isn't legendary if equipped creature is legendary. That token gains haste." By entering combat you create a new, hasted, non-legendary token copy of Godo.
You can then declare the token as an attacker. Godo's second ability reads "Whenever Godo attacks for the first time each turn, untap it and all Samurai you control. After this phase, there is an additional combat phase." Untap the token and proceed through the combat step. After it ends (the token) Godo's second ability will create a new combat step (even if he didn't survive).
With the start of your second combat step you'll get a new trigger from Helm of the Host creating a new, non-legendary token Godo with haste. You can then declare him as an attacker and because this is the first time this new Godo has attacked his second ability will trigger. He untaps and after that combat there will be yet another new combat step. With that third combat you can make a new Godo token which can attack for the first time. This loop can be repeated ad nauseam until your adversaries are defeated.
Note that if a blocker takes damage from a token Godo and survives that damage is still marked on the blocker and won't be removed until the end of the turn. Because we have an arbitrarily large number of combat steps no amount of non-indestructible blockers can stem the rising Godo tide. Eventually the repeated Godo damage will surpass the toughness of each blocker, kill them all, and proceed to smash through for the win.
Lastly, the combo has ways of overcoming indestructible and/or 3+ power first-strike blockers. Remember that each token can attack exactly twice on your combo turn so you can swing at the other two players first leaving all your tokens untapped for their second attack. You can then swing at the final player with all the untapped tokens and in most cases that should be plenty for lethal.
I can't get behind that change. The deck has no card draw and it can't possibly win if it misses any of its first 4 land drops. Realistically you want to go 5-for-5 every game and 24 just doesn't cut it. The straight math says that 24 lands is 72% to go 4-for-4 whereas 26 lands is 80% and once you factor the free MP mulligan, the London mulligan and Scry lands it's closer to 80% and 90% respectively. So essentially for every 10 games of Magic you get to play 9 of them instead of 8.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
I agree that it's a significantly more powerful card. I only excluded it for budget reasons because it's like 30 bucks or something.
Good point. With the addition of Idyllic Tutor the deck should have 1 copy of something like Purphoros, God of the Forge, Cathars' Crusade or Divine Visitation to close games out. Removed Ignite the Future for one. I wish that Purphoros were cheaper lol. Best of all worlds; he's both an Impact Tremors and a Cathars' Crusade!
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
I'm expecting Idyllic Tutor to become affordable within the next few months so I've updated the list to include 4 copies. Not only does it help to ensure a turn 4 Fires but you can also tutor for + cast Assemble the Legion or Stolen Strategy on turn 5.
Replaced Chaos Warp with Generous Gift because it's a slightly less volatile answer. People who routinely face Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre/Darksteel Forge/Avacyn, Angel of Hope/etc. can swap it back but most people can probably live without the "exile" clause.
Added a second Castle Embereth because the difference between 1/1s and 2/1s is gargantuan once you have an Assemble the Legion going.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Personally, I find that I crave consistency more than power. The Boros versions of the deck are fine as long as you mulligan properly and draw the right cards but what I wouldn't give for a nice cantrip or Drawn from Dreams type effect. A big part of the appeal of Jeskai is Castle Vantress for card selection let alone all of the amazing Blue spells that you gain access to.
I'm actually starting to think that this might have to become a Serum Powder deck because it just doesn't do what I want it to unless I have a Fires. Though, I'm starting to lose interest in multiplayer somewhat with all of these mulligan changes because it's starting to feel like I can functionally palm a perfect 7 and play it every game. I might start a thread about it actually.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
I don't think it matters much one way or another. Any combination in any reasonable quantity should be fine. If I had to rank my choices in a vacuum it would be 4lspeth, DV, 6lspeth but DV pops over to #1 if you add those 2x Westvale Abbeys. That's assuming 4x Assemble though. If you're cutting 2 go with Elspeths because DV is useless with Luminarch Ascension.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Preaching to the choir lol. Every time it's cast on me I flip Vampiric Tutor or w/e and every time I hit someone else they get something dumb like Sun Titan. I still run it because "it's the right thing to do" but I know what you mean about feeling cursed -_-.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Yep. It's a mindless 1-card kill on turn 6.
It is, but that doesn't matter as long as you win. Turn 6 Luminarch Ascension/Assemble the Legion/Chandra, Awakened Inferno/etc. + Jokulhaups functionally ends the game a huge % of the time so it doesn't matter if Fires stops working after that. In my circles we don't even play those games out; we scoop and move on to the next one.
The deck certainly gets better the more colors that you play. I too wish that Boros has a usable draw spell. Maybe Endless Atlas + Fetches but even that's kinda meh. Idol of Oblivion is neat, especially if you add a couple more enablers like Kher Keep or whatever. Still doesn't feel great though.
Oh man. Replace Fires of Invention with Smothering Tithe and then add Idol of Oblivion. Now you have my attention! We can even get Dockside Extortionist in the 2 CMC slot as a blocker... a nice $15.00 1/2 blocker :P.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
If you want the "good" win condition feel free to add Godo, Bandit Warlord + Helm of the Host since it's a clean 1-card kill on turn 6. If people are going for OTKs themselves then that's likely your best bet. That's the one that I use if I'm trying to win.
Westvale Abbey is a low-opportunity cost way to turn 1/1s into a threat that matters and this deck can easily support 4. Ormendahl, Profane Prince doesn't give players much breathing room.
Alternatively you could try something with some combo of token payoffs, Tilonalli's Summoner and Assemble the Legion. Any payoff would work just fine; Impact Tremors, Purphoros, God of the Forge, Divine Visitation, Cathars' Crusade, etc. Other options include things like Rite of the Raging Storm, Cavalier of Flame and/or Jokulhaups style mass removal spells.
You could swap it for something like Generous Gift or any other decent piece of removal if you wanted. My meta has cards like Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre and Darksteel Forge so I like having access to a catch-all to deal with them. It's also rather spell-based in general which means plenty of whiffs. It's the most popular Red card in EDH for a reason but I'll certainly acknowledge that it won't necessarily work for everyone.
That's always going to be the most competitive option. This one is an excuse to play Boros Control.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Wouldn't be my first choice. Ascension and Assemble typically don't need help winning games so I'd rather have something more efficient or powerful to help me when I'm behind. I try to avoid what I consider to be "win more" cards because you're usually neutral/behind in multiplayer games so that's what I focus on alleviating. It's still a reasonable and budget-minded option for rounding out the list but it's not something that I would field myself.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Both Embereth Skyblazer and Silverwing Squadron are totally reasonable inclusions as well, especially if you shave some of the numbers on cards like Luminarch Ascension and/or Assemble the Legion. Embereth Skyblazer can definitely do some nutty things with Assemble the Legion.
The deck is relatively flexible and doesn't "require" much other than good mass removal, Fires of Invention and some powerful mana sinks. As long as those requirements are met then you'll have a solid foundation with the rest being dealer's choice.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Fair enough. I hope you got your playset of Scheming Symmetrys too :)!
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Kenny is typically fantastic in Fires shells but he shines in decks that have more creatures and/or different styles of Tokens. Angels don't need Trample since they already have Flying and 1/1s don't benefit from Trample either way. Haste is handy but irrelevant for Assemble. The lifegain is welcome but only relevant if you have a Fires out. You can obviously splash some 5C lands like Exotic Orchard and Shimmering Grotto to take advantage of his other modes but even then you're basically only getting access to his card draw functionality. While I do like him in general because he's an exceptionally powerful card I don't think that he's right for this specific build.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Yep that would be another fine option for rounding out the deck, especially in slower metas. Ramping into Fires on turn 3 is fantastic and it critically gives you a land as opposed to simply tapping for mana. The downside is that the card is basically only good if you see it on turn 1 and even then you also need a Fires to make it truly worthwhile. Still a solid inclusion :).
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
5x Plains
5x Mountain
4x Clifftop Retreat
4x Temple of Triumph
4x Sacred Foundry
2x Castle Embereth
1x Castle Ardenvale
1x Arch of Orazca
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Luminarch Ascension
2x Wear // Tear
4x Deafening Clarion
4x Idyllic Tutor
2x Generous Gift
4x Wrath of God
4x Fires of Invention
4x Assemble the Legion
1x Stolen Strategy
1x Cathars' Crusade
Hey team, wanted to share a Boros Fires deck that I've recently been fooling around with. The concept is simple; clear the board with mass removal, stick a Fires and ride durable threats such as Luminarch Ascension and Assemble the Legion to victory. Our colors enable us to play cheap interaction such as Swords to Plowshares, Wear // Tear and Generous Gift which ensure that we have answers to everything as long as it comes off the stack at some point. The only thing that deck truly lacks is a decent form of card draw so I'll sometimes added 2-4 copies of Ignite the Future to gives its best Harmonize impression. Otherwise we can sink our mana into things like Castle Ardenvale, Arch of Orazca and/or Luminarch Ascension while relying on Fires of Invention to do the heavy-lifting for our spells.
Substitutions:
Luminarch Ascension is a unique Magic card that unfortunately has no substitutions. Cutting it drastically reduces the deck's power-level.
Generous Gift can be swapped for other forms of interaction such as Path to Exile, Tariff, Lightning Helix, Chaos Warp, etc.
Deafening Clarion could be Pyroclasm, Anger of the Gods, Sweltering Suns or any other 2-3 CMC mass removal spell.
Wrath of God could be Day of Judgment, Shatter the Sky, Storm's Wrath, Solar Blaze, Breath of Darigaaz or any other 4 CMC mass removal spell.
Cathars' Crusade could be Purphoros, God of the Forge, Divine Visitation or True Conviction.
Card Draw:
Ignite the Future is currently my favorite "draw spell" so I recommend shaving some removal and adding these if your meta is aggro-light.
Non-Budget Options:
Westvale Abbey is a low-risk, high-reward card and the deck can easily support 4. Ormendahl, Profane Prince is a house.
Enlightened Tutor is another powerful tutor that enables turn 2 Luminarch Ascension/ turn 4 Fires with frightening consistency.
Overpowered:
The single best win condition for this deck is actually Godo, Bandit Warlord + Helm of the Host. Long-form explanation:
1. In your first main phase cast Godo, Bandit Warlord using Fires of Invention and tutor out Helm of the Host.
2. Still in your first main phase pay 5 mana to equip Helm of the Host to Godo, Bandit Warlord.
3. Enter combat.
4. Win the game.
Helm of the Host reads "At the beginning of combat on your turn, create a token that's a copy of equipped creature, except the token isn't legendary if equipped creature is legendary. That token gains haste." By entering combat you create a new, hasted, non-legendary token copy of Godo.
You can then declare the token as an attacker. Godo's second ability reads "Whenever Godo attacks for the first time each turn, untap it and all Samurai you control. After this phase, there is an additional combat phase." Untap the token and proceed through the combat step. After it ends (the token) Godo's second ability will create a new combat step (even if he didn't survive).
With the start of your second combat step you'll get a new trigger from Helm of the Host creating a new, non-legendary token Godo with haste. You can then declare him as an attacker and because this is the first time this new Godo has attacked his second ability will trigger. He untaps and after that combat there will be yet another new combat step. With that third combat you can make a new Godo token which can attack for the first time. This loop can be repeated ad nauseam until your adversaries are defeated.
Note that if a blocker takes damage from a token Godo and survives that damage is still marked on the blocker and won't be removed until the end of the turn. Because we have an arbitrarily large number of combat steps no amount of non-indestructible blockers can stem the rising Godo tide. Eventually the repeated Godo damage will surpass the toughness of each blocker, kill them all, and proceed to smash through for the win.
Lastly, the combo has ways of overcoming indestructible and/or 3+ power first-strike blockers. Remember that each token can attack exactly twice on your combo turn so you can swing at the other two players first leaving all your tokens untapped for their second attack. You can then swing at the final player with all the untapped tokens and in most cases that should be plenty for lethal.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold