[quote from="FunkyDragon »" url="/forums/the-game/commander-edh/813272-marisi-breaker-of-the-coil-lets-brew?comment=31"]I confess my build is different, I force people to attack even myself just so they'd die under the traps I set up. I do it this way because I prefer certain creatures gone instead of just attacking my opponent, which they might survive the aftermath.
Yeah, it's a totally legit build - I once had a five color bloodbath deck designed with all of those effects. It just requires a different base from what I'm doing with Marisi. Three cards that work really well with either build, though, are Duelist's Heritage, Berserk, and Blood Frenzy. I've been impressed with all three - when an opponent attacks another opponent, you can help them punch harder, and the two instants kill the creature, too.
I'd recommend cards and effect like Fumiko the Lowblood. While it's not goading, with enough traps and defense set up your opponents would have to attack other players anyway. Just in case Marisi were taken out of the picture or you cannot goad opponents via his ability.
The problem with "All creatures must attack" is that it requires a totally different support set than a deck built around evasive creatures and goad. With Fumiko effects, people will attack you to get rid of the effect unless you have a lot of things to stop them; and you most certainly would not want to pair that with Bedlam. The goad build only has to worry about the last player attacking you, for the most part, which means you need a lot less protection slots; goad is your protection up until the end. I am testing Warmonger Hellkite (haven't had it in play yet), but that's because its pump ability can be used when a goaded opponent attacks another opponent.
Hushbringer looks super fun. It puts a small damper on Varchild, but the odds of having both out at the same time are small enough that it's worth it.
There are actually a few cards in my build that interact like that - great individually (and with the rest of the deck) but nonbos when present together.
Well, it turns out if no one removes Bedlam for an entire game, it can hand you the game.
Also, Hushbringer was just spoiled, and I immediately thought of this deck. Flying for evasion, lifelink to help buffer us, and a hatebear ability to keep opponents from getting triggers as their creatures ETB and die (and there will often be a lot of death when players are goaded - unless, of course, you have the aforementioned Bedlam in play.
I wanted to use their army and accidentally killed them too soon. If I had noticed the +1/+1 counters, I would have used Berserk alone for the removal and skipped the double strike. Then Opponent B could have swung back at the Atraxa player.
Played with Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa in the deck this weekend and it did so much work in tandem with Varchild, Betrayer of Kjeldor. I kept giving my opponent's tokens that they need to hit each other with, and since the tokens can't block, they would go basically unimpeded. Then they finally decided that Varchild had to go, I got all the tokens, GSZ'd for Sidar, and was able to swing with the tokens with impunity.
I never noticed before that Sidar stops them from blocking all creatures, not just yours. I should probably put him in my deck. I think I cut Varchild from my build, too, but I'm still trying things out and tweaking a lot, so it may go back in. This has been an interesting deck to work with because it really depends on the opponents' boards how effective it will be.
I did accidentally kill an opponent in one game, which is a shame because I could have used his army against the others. I goaded Opponent A, who then attacked Opponent B with his commander, Atraxa. I used Duelist's Heritage to give Atraxa double strike and then cast Berserk as a kill spell. Unfortunately, I didn't notice the two +1/+1 counters on Atraxa, and Opponent B took 24 commander damage to the face.
Hatebears are a fun way to build the deck, but it lacks some reach; I had trouble closing out games. Skyline Despot seems like a perfect one to include.
This is actually one of my main concers for the deck - it's great goading our opponents into bashing each other, but once I'm down to my last opponent, goad no longer offers protection, and I still need to end it. That's part of why I opted for token swarm, especially Dragonmaster Outcast and Skyline Despot - a small army of 5/5 flyers should be able to deal with whatever life my opponent has left.
Always remember the read Master Warcraft very carefully; it doesn't do quite what you think it does.
Yeah, Master Warcraft is an old favorite of mine, but it just doesn't offer enough control to go in many decks these days. You may choose which creatures attack, but you don't choose where they attack.
Also, I'm considering Skyline Despot. In theory, people shouldn't be able to take the monarch away from me very easily, and pumping out an extra 5/5 Dragon with flying every turn should certainly help keep it that way.
What I see missing is card draws. I recommend PWs such as Elspeth and Nahiri who could provide tokens, and cards like Skullclamp and Infiltration Lens for card draw, the latter forces opponent to make extra choice on blocking (either block and die, or suffer mass goad).
Skullclamp is definitely a good one, as I have multiple cards that produce 1/1 tokens. Infiltration Lens wouldn't work with my main creatures, but it definitely could again with those tokens.
Without blue or black, the best unblockable creatures are not available to you.
Oh, I know. Honestly, that's probably a good thing, as Marisi would be absolutely broken with access to them. At the same time, when it really comes down to it, is there really that big a difference between Tormented Soul/Changeling Outcast and Soltari Foot Soldier? How often will your opponents be able to block it? Even Healer's Hawk will be able to get through on at least one opponent most of the time. And Bedlam makes all blocking a moot point.
I just want creatures that survive to attack again, but Lone Wolf and friends will often get in one hit and die.
My biggest love of the Swords is that a single sword turns Marisi into a 3 turn clock with the right sword. Played against a mono-black deck on Saturday and after 2 swings with Marisi and Sword of Light and Shadow, they essentially worked for me for the rest of the game.
True. I'm hoping I don't actually have to kill anyone through commander damage once everyone starts swinging, but it is a good backup plan. It also protects Marisi from various forma of removal.
Siege Behemoth is worth more as he grants all your creatures that ability. (And it still counts a combat damage)
I had considered Rhox in my early brainstorming because it can regenerate (though 2G is pretty high, especially on a creature that's already a 6-drop), but the only one I included in the original list is Siege Behemoth. Like you said, it grants the ability to all your creatures, including Marisi; Behemoth also has Hexproof. Unfortunately, this super-trample ability is often a one turn deal, as it doesn't actually protect the attacking creature from the blockers' damage. In the end, I opted for cheaper creatures (three mana or less when possible) that can keep hitting turn after turn and bypass blockers altogether.
Total war doesn’t really do anything if you’ve hit them with marisi from what I can tell. They already have to attack with everything anyway?
Somehow I missed the word "untapped" when reading it multiple times - I thought it would take out things they tapped to avoid attacking. It does kill any non-Wall creatures with Defender, and I suppose there are some corner cases for it, like if your final opponent can't afford the 2 for each creature when you have Windborn Muse in play, but it probably won't make the cut.
It'll keep them from flashing out creatures at the end of turn to have blockers and their mana still open when they pass the turn. Kind of a niche scenario, but more common than one would think.
I actually proxied up a Marisi list this weekend and played a few games with it. Two games it got locked out because, naturally, this was the week a buddy decided to try out Aboshan, Cephalid Emperor. It was a lot of fun to play though. My deck tries to give evasion with Swords of XandY, so it's a little different than yours, but one thing I think both our lists would enjoy is giving our opponents tokens. Things like the Hunted creatures and Forbidden Orchard, go along with Generous Gift and Beast Within.
Yeah, I should include Forbidden Orchard. And I considered swords, but then it started feeling like my Rafiq deck. I love that with enough shadow, horsemanship, and flying, this Naya deck starts feeling like an Edric or other blue deck, only meaner.
Of the C19 commanders, the two who excite me most are Marisi and Volrath, but as everyone seems to be doing Volrath, I want to brew Marisi.
Goad is a fun mechanic, and Disrupt Decorum is a hilarious card, so repeating it every turn seems even better. By forcing all of our opponents into a bloodbath, we can speed along the game and hopefully emerge victorious. In order to do this, we need to ensure that our creatures can get through. Once they do, though, it becomes easier to do a second time, as most of their creatures should be tapped from attacking.
So what cards do we want? Without blue, we don't have many unbloackables, but we have plenty of creatures that are hard to block - Shadow, Horsemanship, Flying, Trample, Landwalk, etc go a long way. We also want to maximize the damage that our opponents deal to each other. And we'll also want a few cards that remove an opponent's Ghostly Prison or other protection cards.
Noteworthy cards: Bedlam - Guarantees that you can get through, then guarantees that opponents hit each other for maximum damage. Spirit en-Dal - Can grant Marisi shadow each turn and stays in hand, protected from board wipes. Blade of Selves - Ensures each opponent gets hit by one of our evasive creatures. Crescendo of War - Speeds up the clock. Grenzo, Havoc Raiser - Doubles as backup for our commander and gives us potential card advantage/resources when our plan A is working. Break Through the Line - Makes our smaller creatures/tokens unblockable and grants haste. Ensures they get through. Berserk and Blood Frenzy - Can be used to pump and then remove a goaded creature for maximum value. Beast Within and Generous Gift - Remove problem permanents (like Ghostly Prison) while giving them another creature that has to swing.
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Also, Hushbringer was just spoiled, and I immediately thought of this deck. Flying for evasion, lifelink to help buffer us, and a hatebear ability to keep opponents from getting triggers as their creatures ETB and die (and there will often be a lot of death when players are goaded - unless, of course, you have the aforementioned Bedlam in play.
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I did accidentally kill an opponent in one game, which is a shame because I could have used his army against the others. I goaded Opponent A, who then attacked Opponent B with his commander, Atraxa. I used Duelist's Heritage to give Atraxa double strike and then cast Berserk as a kill spell. Unfortunately, I didn't notice the two +1/+1 counters on Atraxa, and Opponent B took 24 commander damage to the face.
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Also, I'm considering Skyline Despot. In theory, people shouldn't be able to take the monarch away from me very easily, and pumping out an extra 5/5 Dragon with flying every turn should certainly help keep it that way.
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I just want creatures that survive to attack again, but Lone Wolf and friends will often get in one hit and die.
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Goad is a fun mechanic, and Disrupt Decorum is a hilarious card, so repeating it every turn seems even better. By forcing all of our opponents into a bloodbath, we can speed along the game and hopefully emerge victorious. In order to do this, we need to ensure that our creatures can get through. Once they do, though, it becomes easier to do a second time, as most of their creatures should be tapped from attacking.
So what cards do we want? Without blue, we don't have many unbloackables, but we have plenty of creatures that are hard to block - Shadow, Horsemanship, Flying, Trample, Landwalk, etc go a long way. We also want to maximize the damage that our opponents deal to each other. And we'll also want a few cards that remove an opponent's Ghostly Prison or other protection cards.
What are your suggestions?
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Beast Whisperer
1 Beloved Chaplain
1 Commander Eesha
1 Dragonmaster Outcast
1 Flamewake Phoenix
1 Gahiji, Honored One
1 Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
1 Giver of Runes
1 Grenzo, Havoc Raiser
1 Herald of the Host
1 Hushwing Gryff
1 Iroas, God of Victory
1 Kinjalli's Sunwing
1 Loyal Apprentice
1 Mire Boa
1 Mother of Runes
1 Nacatl War-Pride
1 Odric, Master Tactician
1 Ohran Frostfang
1 Orzhov Advokist
1 River Boa
1 Selfless Spirit
1 Shu Cavalry
1 Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa
1 Siege Behemoth
1 Skyline Despot
1 Soltari Champion
1 Soltari Foot Soldier
1 Soltari Visionary
1 Spirit en-Dal
1 Tin Street Dodger
1 Varchild, Betrayer of Kjeldor
1 Warmonger Hellkite
1 Windborn Muse
1 Yellow Scarves Cavalry
1 Asceticism
1 Authority of the Consuls
1 Bedlam
1 Blind Obedience
1 Break Through the Line
1 Crescendo of War
1 Curse of Opulence
1 Duelist's Heritage
1 Guardian Project
1 Gryff's Boon
1 Heat Stroke
1 Luminarch Ascension
1 Militia's Pride
1 Sacred Mesa
1 Shield of the Oversoul
1 Spirit Bonds
1 War Cadence
Artifacts
1 Assault Suit
1 Blade of Selves
1 Bloodthirsty Blade
1 Crown of Doom
1 Infiltration Lens
1 Key to the City
1 Lifecrafter's Bestiary
1 Skullclamp
7 Swords of X & Y cycle
1 Thunderstaff
1 Throne of the God-Pharaoh
1 Whispersilk Cloak
1 Beast Within
1 Benefactor's Draught
1 Berserk
1 Blood Frenzy
1 Boros Charm
1 Brave the Elements
1 Fight to the Death
1 Generous Gift
1 Gruul Charm
1 Heroic Intervention
1 Mercy Killing
1 Naya Charm
1 Outmaneuver
1 Rootborn Defenses
Sorceries
1 Disrupt Decorum
1 Storm the Citadel
Lands
1 Forbidden Orchard
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Rogue's Passage
Noteworthy cards:
Bedlam - Guarantees that you can get through, then guarantees that opponents hit each other for maximum damage.
Spirit en-Dal - Can grant Marisi shadow each turn and stays in hand, protected from board wipes.
Blade of Selves - Ensures each opponent gets hit by one of our evasive creatures.
Crescendo of War - Speeds up the clock.
Grenzo, Havoc Raiser - Doubles as backup for our commander and gives us potential card advantage/resources when our plan A is working.
Break Through the Line - Makes our smaller creatures/tokens unblockable and grants haste. Ensures they get through.
Berserk and Blood Frenzy - Can be used to pump and then remove a goaded creature for maximum value.
Beast Within and Generous Gift - Remove problem permanents (like Ghostly Prison) while giving them another creature that has to swing.
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