People need to stop claiming that Iona is fine because other players can solve the solitary monocolored player's problem. They might do so if they're nice, but they have no incentive to unless the board state calls for it in particular (which is rare).
In my play group, unless the person getting locked out is approaching critical mass, we tend to let each other out of jail to team up on the warden.
I understand that this is not a universal experience, but it's also not an uncommon one.
The thing is, from a purely mechanical perspective, there is no real incentive for that kind of behavior. Sure, EDH is a casual, social format, but the banlist should deal with the most egrerious elements that would incentivize poor experiences. Infact, what you're basically doing in your playgroup is to enforce a social ban on the card, since you actively punish the player that ruins the game for another. It's just another argument for the ban. (Not saying that you necessarily disagree with the ban ofc.)
The mechanical incentive is that, typically, the player doing the lockdown probably has a way to put you in a cage, too. So if you unleash the beast then the two of you can bop the offending player out of the game and move forward. One down, however many to go.
As for a social ban? Nah. If someone's starting to hand out Overwhelming Splendors and they pull it off, fine. Just pull it off; don't leave players flailing while the rest of the table goes on as normal. We don't care if you try to lock someone down so long as you win off of it. Armageddon? Sure, just win. Worldpurge? Sure, just win. Stasis? Sure, just win. Brine Elemental? Sure, just win. Don't drag it out, don't grind misery, just win so we can all move on.
People need to stop claiming that Iona is fine because other players can solve the solitary monocolored player's problem. They might do so if they're nice, but they have no incentive to unless the board state calls for it in particular (which is rare).
In my play group, unless the person getting locked out is approaching critical mass, we tend to let each other out of jail to team up on the warden.
I understand that this is not a universal experience, but it's also not an uncommon one.
And that's supposed to be good for the format? "I'm not building a prison deck, but boy do I want to be able to lock one player out of the game if the opportunity arises."
Who said it was good for the format? I entered into this thread to dispute her being a trap and an "accidental powerhouse" like your example of Sundering Titan. I think her and PS in the format simultaneously would be fine, but I'd also be fine with several of the banned cards in the format being let free. Back on topic, people ran Iona with the purpose of pain. They know what they did
My only real beef is with an argument that hasn't really come up in this thread so I won't bring it in here.
I dont think this is true. Many people play multicolors, and big costly angels seem cool and fun. Maybe after it ruins a few games people come around, but I can see for sure why new folks think it looks cool.
Her effect is 100% up front. It's not like playing, say, white Crovax for fun as an anthem that's hard to kill but then you realize, uh oh, I didn't mean to totally lock out the saproling player! Locking out a color is pretty unambiguous.
In my experience, the Timmy use is to runnit as blue protection in your jank deck. Only sometimes the best line of play I'd to name a different color that hits more players. Or maybe it's just to lock that one person out who is ahead. And you know what happens when one person is handicapped in the game and the other opponents aren't? "Phew, good thing that card doesn't affect me and I don't have to expend resources dealing with it!"
So yeah, it's a trap card, because the target audience isn't intentionally playing a prison deck, any more than they were playing MLD but still wanted to use Sundering Titam in order to keep ramp in check.
How is a card doing exactly what it says a trap? Because trap cards are things that seem cool but are more detrimental to your game plan than you realize, like a Temple of the False God in a rock-heavy deck without land ramp.
Also, the "target audience" of Iona is someone who wants to hit another player, possibly players, in the face with a brick. She does that very well. It's a big part of the reason why she just got banned. It's not that the Angels player wasn't playing prison; it's that they didn't need to play prison because they could just slot in an Iona and play her when they needed to make a sharp turn to prison town.
While there's a bit of a Timmy element to Iona it's not a trap card. As nuts as, say, Paradox Engine is a new player could easily slot it into a deck just trying to generate value before realizing how east it is to break.
Iona, on the other hand, is very up front about what she does. Even the Timmiest Timmy runs her to kick the mono colored decks in the groin. It's also not like Armageddon; land destruction is often followed by "now what?" Iona's "now what?" is beats.
Of course there's a lot of people who justifiably don't want to worry about Iona showing up at the table. I don't blame them. But it's not a trap, it's not an accident, and treating it as such masks what it does. It's a hard control option on a stick, not a mythical Timmy-tricking boogeyman.
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The mechanical incentive is that, typically, the player doing the lockdown probably has a way to put you in a cage, too. So if you unleash the beast then the two of you can bop the offending player out of the game and move forward. One down, however many to go.
As for a social ban? Nah. If someone's starting to hand out Overwhelming Splendors and they pull it off, fine. Just pull it off; don't leave players flailing while the rest of the table goes on as normal. We don't care if you try to lock someone down so long as you win off of it. Armageddon? Sure, just win. Worldpurge? Sure, just win. Stasis? Sure, just win. Brine Elemental? Sure, just win. Don't drag it out, don't grind misery, just win so we can all move on.
In my play group, unless the person getting locked out is approaching critical mass, we tend to let each other out of jail to team up on the warden.
I understand that this is not a universal experience, but it's also not an uncommon one.
Who said it was good for the format? I entered into this thread to dispute her being a trap and an "accidental powerhouse" like your example of Sundering Titan. I think her and PS in the format simultaneously would be fine, but I'd also be fine with several of the banned cards in the format being let free. Back on topic, people ran Iona with the purpose of pain. They know what they did
My only real beef is with an argument that hasn't really come up in this thread so I won't bring it in here.
Her effect is 100% up front. It's not like playing, say, white Crovax for fun as an anthem that's hard to kill but then you realize, uh oh, I didn't mean to totally lock out the saproling player! Locking out a color is pretty unambiguous.
How is a card doing exactly what it says a trap? Because trap cards are things that seem cool but are more detrimental to your game plan than you realize, like a Temple of the False God in a rock-heavy deck without land ramp.
Also, the "target audience" of Iona is someone who wants to hit another player, possibly players, in the face with a brick. She does that very well. It's a big part of the reason why she just got banned. It's not that the Angels player wasn't playing prison; it's that they didn't need to play prison because they could just slot in an Iona and play her when they needed to make a sharp turn to prison town.
Iona, on the other hand, is very up front about what she does. Even the Timmiest Timmy runs her to kick the mono colored decks in the groin. It's also not like Armageddon; land destruction is often followed by "now what?" Iona's "now what?" is beats.
Of course there's a lot of people who justifiably don't want to worry about Iona showing up at the table. I don't blame them. But it's not a trap, it's not an accident, and treating it as such masks what it does. It's a hard control option on a stick, not a mythical Timmy-tricking boogeyman.