-because Iona can disproportionately effect one player more than another, it can lock one player out completely, while doing absolutely nothing to another player - thus providing an incentive for the unaffected player to keep it alive, up to countering removal aimed at it, even if they aren't the controller. Most stax cards effect all enemy players in at least reasonably equal ways, and so they don't generally create this dynamic.
-because Iona is a big dumb creature, she gets put into decks and metas that wouldn't consider playing something like, say, stasis. cEDH gonna cEDH, they can have their efficient stax pieces that only exist to do stax things. Iona isn't a cEDH stax card though - she looks like a casual card but plays like a stax card. So she inserts stax into metas that otherwise wouldn't be playing it.
What you mentioned with other people not being affected or just lightly affected and protecting Iona by spending resources is actually great. Is *****ty for the one player but great in a political/multiplayer way. If they keep spending resources in a card that they are not even controlling just to lock the mono-color player, than maybe that player has done something wrong or was leading anyways. I mean look yes she can be odd in some games but there are cards that do this for every player and they are legal. Color hate, stax cards etc. for far less mana. And painter open up combos much more disgusting that Iona could ever be.
So if someone has a stasis/orb lock online everything is okay because he wins the game and the other 3 player can give up because they can do nothing. But if a mono-color player get locked by an Iona than everything is miserable because he has to sit there and do nothing? Where is the different for you to be defeated early in the game or be locked?
And no you don't have to tailor your decks to 30-odd people but you can prepare yourself for the one hate card out there that seemly is destroying your day/fun.
But well this discussion won't change any opinions. She is banned now and will disappear in my binder.
Oh I haven't actually played against Iona recently. Maybe in years tbh. I don't think it was an emergency ban. But it's a card that only serves to make games suck, so it does deserve a ban imo.
The difference between Iona and, say, stasis, is that (1) iona needs no effort to break the symmetry, and more importantly (2) Iona is a big sweet-looking angel that casuals will actually want to put in their decks. Casuals aren't lining up to put winter orb in their decks because they'll have to build around it, and because it's not very "fun". Iona looks like she might be fun but is, in fact, not.
That's the argument the RC uses, as well as I can recite it. You're free to disagree with the way they ban cards, but that's how they go about doing it. By their criteria, Iona is definitely more deserving of banning that stasis.
Are you speaking of multi-player games? Iona is a 7/7 flyer without any protection. She will not be on the battlefield forever. The monocolor player doesn't have to sit there and wait. He can give up and leave if he wants. Triumpf of hordes often kills just one player. That player has to wait until the game is finished or find another group. Is basically the same.
No not everyone has to play colorless removal because not everyone is playing mono color decks. You should know your game group and you can perfectly adjust your deck to your meta.
There are better ways to keep other players from playing magic. She is an iconic card for me. One of the first creature I got by trading with friends. I have good memories with her, like preventing some Bord wipes or protection from counters.
If other players aren't affected (or majorly affected) by iona, they may well get an advantage from her existing and want to protect her, so that the mono-colored player is locked out. So yes, Iona can survive for a long time and meanwhile you're stuck there doing nothing. Does it always play out that way? Well no. But the range of "how annoying is Iona" goes from "pretty annoying" to "incredibly annoying" with no real room for "actually pretty fun".
My meta is like 30 people. If you get knocked out early, you can find other people to play with. Not a big problem. But I'm supposed to tailor my decks to 30-odd people playing hundreds of different decks of wildly different power levels?
Agree. I don't think that a 9 Mana card in the worse color that not even win you the game on the spot like other cards with that mana cost and can easily be interacted with before she enters the battlefield or with colorless removal is that broken. Did she required some build around/answers well yes but so do other cards. There are other feel bad cards, too. Like loosing to Triumph of the Hordes early in the game. MtG was really good at adding answers against her. But she was call out for years now, so I guess they wanted to throw the community a bone.
-"being in the worst color" doesn't really mean anything as long as multicolor commanders exist (fun fact, there are a decent number of them).
-being 9 mana doesn't mean much in a format with so many ways to cheat things into play
-colorless removal is rare and mostly very inefficient, do you seriously want every deck to run karn and tutor for it ASAP just in case iona gets played? How are you supposed to predict that?
-the problem with iona is NOT that she's too powerful. She's not. The problem is that she creates undesirable game states for a casual game, where someone is completely prevented from casting anything because they're playing a mono-color deck. It also creates a problem because mono-color is already a big disadvantage, and iona punishes players even more for playing it.
Triumph of the hordes ends the game if it works. You can go start another one, no problem. Iona keeps you in the game, but unable to do anything. Way less fun. Kill me and get it over with.
-because Iona can disproportionately effect one player more than another, it can lock one player out completely, while doing absolutely nothing to another player - thus providing an incentive for the unaffected player to keep it alive, up to countering removal aimed at it, even if they aren't the controller. Most stax cards effect all enemy players in at least reasonably equal ways, and so they don't generally create this dynamic.
-because Iona is a big dumb creature, she gets put into decks and metas that wouldn't consider playing something like, say, stasis. cEDH gonna cEDH, they can have their efficient stax pieces that only exist to do stax things. Iona isn't a cEDH stax card though - she looks like a casual card but plays like a stax card. So she inserts stax into metas that otherwise wouldn't be playing it.
That's why she's banned.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
The difference between Iona and, say, stasis, is that (1) iona needs no effort to break the symmetry, and more importantly (2) Iona is a big sweet-looking angel that casuals will actually want to put in their decks. Casuals aren't lining up to put winter orb in their decks because they'll have to build around it, and because it's not very "fun". Iona looks like she might be fun but is, in fact, not.
That's the argument the RC uses, as well as I can recite it. You're free to disagree with the way they ban cards, but that's how they go about doing it. By their criteria, Iona is definitely more deserving of banning that stasis.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
My meta is like 30 people. If you get knocked out early, you can find other people to play with. Not a big problem. But I'm supposed to tailor my decks to 30-odd people playing hundreds of different decks of wildly different power levels?
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
-being 9 mana doesn't mean much in a format with so many ways to cheat things into play
-colorless removal is rare and mostly very inefficient, do you seriously want every deck to run karn and tutor for it ASAP just in case iona gets played? How are you supposed to predict that?
-the problem with iona is NOT that she's too powerful. She's not. The problem is that she creates undesirable game states for a casual game, where someone is completely prevented from casting anything because they're playing a mono-color deck. It also creates a problem because mono-color is already a big disadvantage, and iona punishes players even more for playing it.
Triumph of the hordes ends the game if it works. You can go start another one, no problem. Iona keeps you in the game, but unable to do anything. Way less fun. Kill me and get it over with.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6