I think we probably continue contingency plans
the survival of MTGS is up in the air, just as mtgnews was seriously damaged as a result of the last schism
We can stick around long enough to see how things start panning out
But I think we probably needed a change for the betterment of the community anyways
Still, I like the idea of keeping all our infrastructure and old games just as they were
We probably need to reverse some of the queues changes we made, I think
I feel like the signup system we have now is an absolute disaster.
The entire system is held hostage to games that aren't filling
And our specialties and FTQs have no pressure or impetus to fire
And the entire sub just looks stale and deserted now
I think we've had the players all along
But we've lacked games that they want to sign up for - the more experienced players in particular who have played in a ton of standard complexity normals and are burnt out on those game types
I agree that we absolutely need to reinstate the specialty queue
I think if we have game hosts who are interested in putting out interesting new games, they'll fill in a heartbeat, and people will come out of the woodwork for them
I know in my case, my entire MO for the last year has been to check on the site every 1-2 months, looking for any games that catch my eye as unique or creative or interesting, and there's just nothing moving through the pipes that called to me
there's absolutely games IN the pipes like that
but they're not being pushed to completion
And I'm sure I'm not the only old vet who's doing that exact thing
Apparently a buyer for MTGS has emerged, but there still seems to be a schism brewing, with considerable impact on the mafia forum, for good or ill, still possible. Discussion ongoing.
@Az: I took at look at GG, because you make a strong case. The mobile interface was not feasible for me, is there a way to change the view that I’m missing? No profile info, no pictures, no sigs. Also I couldn’t fit much on screen. These would be limiting factors for me personally, and likely impact other mobile users.
Never tried it on mobile - that could definitely be a minus.
Sounds like MU is the front-runner thus far.
I suppose that means once work stops exploding, I should think up a game or two to introduce them to how we roll, over here...
Mafia universe has 262 active users online at the moment, versus 30 for GG. Our mafia sub has 30 active online users at the moment.
GG has a thousand members. MU has 4800 members, of whom 1200 are active. We have had about 188 unique players in the past three years. MTGS as a whole has 4530 active users just this moment, and 391,000 members total.
Either site is going to be a bit of an adjustment from what we're used to, I suspect. MU's raw user pipeline is much larger. GG's user pipeline is, potentially, a higher quality or a better fit on average, as they're used to playing our style.
Legitimate arguments for either option can be made.
I agree that's the biggest minus at GG. I'm a little out of touch as far as what their new membership numbers are like nowadays, but that could very well be the deciding factor if it's too minimal. I can check.
I think at some point we may want to institute a checkbox poll exploring who will be able/willing to want to relocate to each of the proposed spots, and use that to inform the decision. We want to keep as much of the band together as possible.
On MU, there are some definite benefits worth considering as far as being able to pull from their wider playerbase, and the software is pretty fantastic. I do worry about the risk that we get subsumed/diluted. When you join a large existing community like that, it does change things. Still, change can be good. Things got a little stagnant here without a lot of new users around, and that was a big part of the problem. On the other hand, fit and culture are pretty valid concerns, based on some of the interactions/frictions I've seen. Lurking and low-participation may be issues we'd have to deal with regularly.
For me, GG has that nice homey feel, and a very compatible playstyle. But will we be able to recruit lots of new players there? Not likely. For me, I think there's a level of comfort and a number of intangibles at GG that MU can't offer, such that it would be more of a home-coming than a refugee relocation. Floated the possibility over there, and it was very well-received.
I suppose it depends largely on what's most important to us as a community. Preserving the kind of community that we've built here, or launching a new adventure. We have options in that regard, and we may find that this change was a benefit to us, in the end.
I'm surprised they're not at least trying to sell the site to someone else. There's still some value to this sucker, I'd expect.
Silver lining: doesn't much matter if we double-post outside of game threads now. Care to comment on why admin didn't care to continue the mafia sub? Where are all their best moderators going to come from, now, anyways?
So, I guess we need a new home, maybe. MU is certainly one option, although we'd be a pretty small subset of the whole. Likely to get swallowed up, and hard to maintain ourselves as distinct.
Here's one other option that may not be on the radar as much, but might let us keep the community as a whole together and distinct, preserve our autonomy and structure. Good Gamery (goodgamery.com). We've had plenty of mixers with them over the years, and out of any of the communities we've played with, they are, by far, the most similar to us. Not by accident, either. The tie-ins between our userbases go all the way back to 2005, and you could make a strong argument that MTGS's style of play originated with those guys. When I was first learning how to play and design games back in 2003, when the same crew was on Misetings.com, that's who I first learned to play with. A lot of the creative stuff they put together was one of my major influences. Then I came over here when mafia first started on MTGS, with just a dozen or so of us initially, and that same style was the germ of MTGS's playstyle and design DNA. Out of anywhere else that I'd continue to be inclined to play, that would allow us the most continuity.
We also already share a fair number of members who have played on both sites. Similar culture, both being magic sites. It's owned by an active participant in the forum, who's not likely to be running off anytime soon. I'd say that's as close to home as we're going to get. It'll also help both sites to consolidate forces. They have have suffered from attrition same as a lot of other mafia subs, but still have quite a few old-hands who also enjoy the multi-day playstyle, thorough analysis, PBPA work and creative specialty designs that are our signature playstyle. Some of the best players I know, anywhere, still frequent that site. Smart, and easy-going.
That'd be my suggestion.
EDIT: Also, I'm told Grakthis is no longer there. Which for me is a minus, but a huge plus for everyone else.
I think we probably continue contingency plans
the survival of MTGS is up in the air, just as mtgnews was seriously damaged as a result of the last schism
We can stick around long enough to see how things start panning out
But I think we probably needed a change for the betterment of the community anyways
Still, I like the idea of keeping all our infrastructure and old games just as they were
We probably need to reverse some of the queues changes we made, I think
I feel like the signup system we have now is an absolute disaster.
The entire system is held hostage to games that aren't filling
And our specialties and FTQs have no pressure or impetus to fire
And the entire sub just looks stale and deserted now
I think we've had the players all along
But we've lacked games that they want to sign up for - the more experienced players in particular who have played in a ton of standard complexity normals and are burnt out on those game types
I agree that we absolutely need to reinstate the specialty queue
I think if we have game hosts who are interested in putting out interesting new games, they'll fill in a heartbeat, and people will come out of the woodwork for them
I know in my case, my entire MO for the last year has been to check on the site every 1-2 months, looking for any games that catch my eye as unique or creative or interesting, and there's just nothing moving through the pipes that called to me
there's absolutely games IN the pipes like that
but they're not being pushed to completion
And I'm sure I'm not the only old vet who's doing that exact thing
Might take you up on that - can't be eliminating Shadow from the player pool.
Short answer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yam5uK6e-bQ
EDIT: Scratch that. Rough draft of setup complete.
Particularly if the site will be archived, we want that discord link to be easy to find going forward, before the site goes dead and can't be altered.
Never tried it on mobile - that could definitely be a minus.
Sounds like MU is the front-runner thus far.
I suppose that means once work stops exploding, I should think up a game or two to introduce them to how we roll, over here...
Mafia universe has 262 active users online at the moment, versus 30 for GG. Our mafia sub has 30 active online users at the moment.
GG has a thousand members. MU has 4800 members, of whom 1200 are active. We have had about 188 unique players in the past three years. MTGS as a whole has 4530 active users just this moment, and 391,000 members total.
Either site is going to be a bit of an adjustment from what we're used to, I suspect. MU's raw user pipeline is much larger. GG's user pipeline is, potentially, a higher quality or a better fit on average, as they're used to playing our style.
Legitimate arguments for either option can be made.
On MU, there are some definite benefits worth considering as far as being able to pull from their wider playerbase, and the software is pretty fantastic. I do worry about the risk that we get subsumed/diluted. When you join a large existing community like that, it does change things. Still, change can be good. Things got a little stagnant here without a lot of new users around, and that was a big part of the problem. On the other hand, fit and culture are pretty valid concerns, based on some of the interactions/frictions I've seen. Lurking and low-participation may be issues we'd have to deal with regularly.
For me, GG has that nice homey feel, and a very compatible playstyle. But will we be able to recruit lots of new players there? Not likely. For me, I think there's a level of comfort and a number of intangibles at GG that MU can't offer, such that it would be more of a home-coming than a refugee relocation. Floated the possibility over there, and it was very well-received.
I suppose it depends largely on what's most important to us as a community. Preserving the kind of community that we've built here, or launching a new adventure. We have options in that regard, and we may find that this change was a benefit to us, in the end.
Silver lining: doesn't much matter if we double-post outside of game threads now. Care to comment on why admin didn't care to continue the mafia sub? Where are all their best moderators going to come from, now, anyways?
So, I guess we need a new home, maybe. MU is certainly one option, although we'd be a pretty small subset of the whole. Likely to get swallowed up, and hard to maintain ourselves as distinct.
Here's one other option that may not be on the radar as much, but might let us keep the community as a whole together and distinct, preserve our autonomy and structure. Good Gamery (goodgamery.com). We've had plenty of mixers with them over the years, and out of any of the communities we've played with, they are, by far, the most similar to us. Not by accident, either. The tie-ins between our userbases go all the way back to 2005, and you could make a strong argument that MTGS's style of play originated with those guys. When I was first learning how to play and design games back in 2003, when the same crew was on Misetings.com, that's who I first learned to play with. A lot of the creative stuff they put together was one of my major influences. Then I came over here when mafia first started on MTGS, with just a dozen or so of us initially, and that same style was the germ of MTGS's playstyle and design DNA. Out of anywhere else that I'd continue to be inclined to play, that would allow us the most continuity.
We also already share a fair number of members who have played on both sites. Similar culture, both being magic sites. It's owned by an active participant in the forum, who's not likely to be running off anytime soon. I'd say that's as close to home as we're going to get. It'll also help both sites to consolidate forces. They have have suffered from attrition same as a lot of other mafia subs, but still have quite a few old-hands who also enjoy the multi-day playstyle, thorough analysis, PBPA work and creative specialty designs that are our signature playstyle. Some of the best players I know, anywhere, still frequent that site. Smart, and easy-going.
That'd be my suggestion.
EDIT: Also, I'm told Grakthis is no longer there. Which for me is a minus, but a huge plus for everyone else.