I should have been more precise; I meant to say that Urza himself is not an Orb effect nor does he actively restrict your opponents from executing certain game actions, such as drawing more than one card per turn like Leovold, Emissary of Trest does.
I'll disagree with your points and elaborate a little more. Sure, Urza works in conjunction with the Orbs to create an oppressive board state but he himself doesn't have the actual card text that reads Winter Orb, Static Orb, or Trinisphere. Leovold was always a problem even if you didn't build him optimally because nearly every Commander deck I know of has some sort of Card Advantage engine that would allow them to draw more than 1 card per turn; Leovold comprehensively, universally, AND proactively shut that off, and he was always cast-able from the Command Zone. By virtue of his card text alone, Leovold ALWAYS disrupted your opponents regardless of whether or not you had Wheel effects in the deck. Leovold himself was the actual lock/stax/unfun piece that made Wheel effects better and as oppressive as they were; Urza is an ENABLER for the Orb effects but doesn't have the same card text that attacks the basic pillars of MTG like Leovold did.
TL;dr Urza does NOT do exactly the same thing that Leovold did because Urza does NOT have the same stax/hate/unfun card text that Leovold does.
I don't disagree that Urza CAN be built oppressively and in a cEDH style of play. But it can also be built as a value and/or Artifact themed Commander too. Because of his card design, there is the possibility of building a list that suits your playgroup whereas I think Leovold was universally shunned. I have a list that I'll be actively testing in preparation of when I receive my copy of Urza in the mail. I had hoped that my argument demonstrated that Urza, while incredibly powerful, just isn't as broken/restrictive/oppressive as the currently banned legendary creatures.
I think that the continuous comparison of Urza to Leovold falls flat for the reason I bolded above. Urza is an incredible value engine that does everything Blue could ever want and he's consequently extremely powerful. Is he powerful enough to be on the nebulous "watch-list" that the RC and CAG has? Sure, just like Paradox Engine has been. And yet Engine is still legal and slots into WAY more decks than Urza can by virtue of being colorless.
That is an interesting and important distinction.
Urza is more comparable to Derevi and Teferi, in that they work very well with certain stax pieces, but do not necessitate such decks. I rarely see these two generals outside of cEDH. Sure, I used to see Derevi a lot, but people go tired of it at the casual level and I never see it any more.
That being said, Urza could still end up being banned by virtue of directing people to abuse him. When Leovold first came out, people were excited to play him for many reasons... but Leovold's text just pushed everyone to Windfalls.
You can choose to play Urza for many reasons, but it is hard to ignore the power with Orbs and with infinite mana. You are already playing an artifact deck, so these cards get on your radar for sure. The text on Urza may direct people towards the broken builds anyway and lead to a ban.
I honestly cannot think of a fair thing I would want to do with Urza. Commander players like building synergistic decks, and his two main synergies are busted.
Personally, I'm going to just jam in a bunch of ***** from Antiquities and Saga and watch him turn jank like Amulet of Kroog and Colossus of Sardia into a working deck.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
I think he and Arcum Dagsson are actually best friends, since Urza brings along an Artifact creature body for Arcum to Tinker. Yeah, let that sink in for a bit.
I would personally say that Urza is better than Arcum since you don't have to dedicate as many card slots to mediocre Artifact creatures to get your engine going. While Wizards has done a good job at creating Artifact creature token spawning cards recently, there's still a critical mass needed in order for Arcum to be effective. Urza isn't as dependent on having a specific card type in his deck, therefore reducing a significant weakness of Arcum decks. Lastly, Urza doesn't need as many deckslots in order to actually execute his combo; playing Citanul Flute has always felt bad when you're using it to simply tutor for a Memnite or Ornithopter.
He seems a bit more like a critical mass card though, which leaves fewer slots for non artifacts, similar to Jhoira. Arcum, being a repeatable tutor, just needs to hit enough artifact creatures to tutor out it's combo pieces.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
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Personally, I'm going to just jam in a bunch of ***** from Antiquities and Saga and watch him turn jank like Amulet of Kroog and Colossus of Sardia into a working deck.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
He seems a bit more like a critical mass card though, which leaves fewer slots for non artifacts, similar to Jhoira. Arcum, being a repeatable tutor, just needs to hit enough artifact creatures to tutor out it's combo pieces.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!