It's pretty easy to start down the slippery slope to tutor town so I applaud you for thinking on that.
Yeah, don't be like me that crams every tutour under the sun into your deck. Speaking from experience, while it's super cool the first few games to know you're playing 20% tutours in your deck and have created a super consistent gameplan, it is a novelty that wears thin soon unless you're in the cEDH pool or play such a demanding commander that you need that level of consistency.
When you get to the point of "Hmm, I wonder just how much this Imperial Seal would improve my deck..." you'll know you've gone too far. Don't be that guy that shows up with the $450 judge promo crappier version of Vampiric Tutor to the pick up game with nothing on the line. It's uhh...it's a pretty bad look.
Whoops. I misread your Blood Celebrant as the newer Cruel Celebrant from War of the Spark. Hmm, I'm not sure I'd play the former but I also don't need the fixing with that manabase. YMMV.
edit: It's also not a vampire, so nope, I can say I wouldn't play it.
Been waiting for one of my shells to come up, but still not Kaalia, haha. That ought to be the riot when it comes around. Anyway, it's nice seeing this up when I'm starting my vacation.
I've played a little Edgar, and he's about as close to an early aggro commander as exists right now. This list looks reasonably familiar in that you're wanting to spam as many low costed vampires as you can as early as you can. The difference between this list and mine is probably a few grand in land base, tutors and Purphoros. I like the contamination idea, it's a pretty cool way to make sure Edgar is less of the glass cannon he is during the mid-late game.
I don't really have much in the way of recommendations, purely because this deck is almost entirely a superior version of mine. However, there's a couple of draw options that have done really well for me: Ad Nauseam and Minion's Murmurs. Both dig super deep, and the life loss from AN is mitigated by a bargain basement CMC for most of our critters.
There's not really much else I can suggest, but I'm interested as to the absence of things like Blood Artist, Cruel Celebrant, Vindictive Vampire et al. The latter I can understand for being a little pricey, but the first two are pretty great.
A couple notes here, that I really should be playing Ad Naus but at the same time, what am I drawing into? There's only so much need for more *****pire 1 drops in-hand and holding excess cards is not something the deck particularly cares about (I'm not running Reliquary Tower for Ad Naus smh). So, like, it's this awkward spot where it's good enough for sure but it's not really helping me where it would help, say, a combo deck to be able to go off. Does that make sense?
FWIW, yes, the Blood Celebrant totally would get a spot in the deck. It's no contest. I believe Blood Artist is a bit more suspect at the two drop with 0 power and that it only targets one player. It's likely still good enough as it still triggers Edgar, Shared Animosity, still sacs to Indulgent Aristocrat and still gets pumped by Legion Lieutenant. But, you know, I don't consider it an open-and-shut case. The four drop vampire competes with Purphoros and is a bit slower so I don't believe I would play it. But I wouldn't fault anyone for playing it if they were on more budget than my collection has been blessed with over the years. Speaking of budget, the last iteration I played had The Abyss in it. So, have fun getting a hold of one of those for a price less than one of your vital organs lmao. It was good at least, but like, maybe don't spend on a card that could be a mortgage payment though.
Lastly, if you don't like linear decks, this is not going to be a good deck for you. It literally does one thing, and while it does do that one thing very, very well, you will get bored of it and people will ask if you have a "real deck". Myself, I've actually stopped playing it, but I will keep the resource posted indefinitely because, I think, it's valuable to the community to have access to an optimized list as Edgar is a very popular commander.
Lotta high end (5+) cmc cards for a deck with 35 lands and little ramp. Seeing a chunk of creatures that do nothing except attack and block, can't help but imagine this is highly inefficient. And for being a high creature count deck, why is there no Survival of the Fittest? Or any tutours at all tbh.
Garruk Wildspeaker and Elspeth, Knight-Errant would in my estimation, pull far more weight than the current walker suite. Vivien might be okay, I have no experience with her.
Lack of removal is curious, are you adapting the "answer players, not threats" mentality? If so, how, I don't see any ways to win out of nowhere (you could stand to add in a Berserk and Become Immense, and typically a Triumph of the Hordes as well, if that were the case). FWIW, In think Arahbo does a better job at n Mirri IMHO. that strategy tha What does this deck do when Mirri dies (whom is not a sufficient threat on her own)? Existence of natural card advantage is bordering on criminally low to nonexistent (one monarch enabler is not enough). I imagine after the second board wipe you're frantically living off your top deck and hoping for gas...
Idk. Despite not having played a Mirri deck myself, I see little reason I'd pick this up, if this deck were the example list of the commander.
Please do not take my, admittedly harsh critiques as a personal attack. They are not. My aims are to help improve the deck to synergize it's pieces together. I can't do that if I fail to identify flaws.
Of the top of my head? Ratchet bomb is an easy cut here. I'd also kick o-stone to the curb, that's my own distaste but I've never liked it vs Nev Disk.
I think the gearhulks are great but I struggle to see what verdurous gearhulk is doing here. That's a cut.
So, I'm happy this one came up as a Glissa connoisseur or as I was in a previous life before choosing to live in the heat of draconic flames (fyi, I think that's somewhere in the Mountains of Shiv, about 72 Klicks out from my Nomad Outpost on Tarkir).
First suggestion is really like the rule 0 of Glissa decks. You never start this build without Guardian Beast, and this is the one deck where I'd argue his reserved list pricing is still far, far worth it. Adding a Darksteel Plate to this guy makes a pseudo Darksteel Forge for half the mana which is quite good. Pretty hard to justify playing the deck without this guy (impossible for me, in all actuality).
So, some of the suggestions I've come to enjoy were Viridian Longbow because often opponents read your cards and won't attack into your great wall of deathtouch. This allows you to gtet your triggers and pick off annoying pests that shouldn't stick to the board.
Next, I always absolutely adored the Salvaging Station package with this deck! This was the best deck for the Station that couldn't play Artificier's Intuition for a number of reasons, the best of which because Lotus Bloom becomes a reusable, legal Black Lotus here. And if that's not enough convincing (how could it not be), you can also keep graveyard decks super, super honest with the (I see you already have) Nihil Spellbomb, but you can also make great use of Phyrexian Furnace and Scrabbling Claws. In general I find your lack of more cantripping artifacts somewhat jarring, I'd at least feel better about this deck including a Moriok Replica (whoops, missed that on first read) and Horizon Spellbomb. Maybe some other artifact sac outlets (KCI comes to mind) though I was quite partial to Grinding Station, which both sacs your spellbombs (that you can still draw on) and puts more Glissa targets in the 'Yard for better selection. Oh, and you can also make people regret wrathing you with Lifespark Spellbomb activations (or cycle it when not needed, or add extra power to your board or whatever) while Necrogen Spellbomb can soft lock someone's draw step, or again, cycle when not needed. Station is super super good, and even better here, people will learn to respect it after they're done hating what kind of machine you've constructed here.
I think this naturally irritates people and they will want to send aggro your way (or they just don't like me ), so low mana answers to them are necessary. I'd call the E-Capsule you addressed already a corre piece (I'd play it alongside Gearhulk, not replace it with Gearhulk) because sometimes you need to answer things for under six mana and at instant speed. I'd also suggest with all these sacrifices, that Fangren Marauder does a terrific job of keeping our life totals in a nice and healthy range; do not be mislead by his ugly "5/5 for 6" stats, he more than pulls his weight once your sacrificing. Note if you're trying to soak damage, Forcefield is not worth buying into. Holding up 1 for every creature and still letting them trigger their swords and jittes is a pretty miserable experience for the money that thing commands normally, in my experiences.
I see you've got the Wurmcoil and Battlesphere, but friendly reminder that Scuttling Doom Engine is a pretty great clock here as well. People really don't like him being sacrificed on-demand.
If you do decide to add Nim Deathmantle, then Su-Chi is a combo with an arbitrarily large number of sacrifices for you. You can replicate this with Cathodion if your sac outlet is KCI, Ashnod's Altar or Phyrexian Altar specifically. Same combo, but with fewer sac outlets so it's a little more restrictive. Once you assemble the engine though you can murder everybody else at the table with Bitter Ordeal.
Once again, I hope I didn't come off too harsh on you.
I don't have a lot of advice for this one as I tend to stay away from Bant pretty hard, with the last time I dabbled in it being a half-stock Derevi deck (that was still obscene as we'd expect from the bird wizard).
Well, I think primers are a bad idea for this thread, because they will often have discussed anything we can come up with in a few days. It is a nice deck, but what is the point?
Speaking as a primer authour, I don't think primer status should be a disqualifer from discussion honestly. Yes, we've worked for years, (for some of us a near decade even) on the deck so the likelihood of missing obvious cards is pretty low, but that doesn't absolve us of any margin for error. This thread also doesn't have to be about card selection, but also on the strategy of the deck in question. Play rate, good match ups/bad match ups, and ways for improvement on said bad matches. I.e. I know I've pretty well given up on improving my sub10% win rate vs Esper inside of Kaalia, but I still value the possible avenues of attack I never considered from others. Even if they end up not making it into the deck (for whatever reason), having something I never considered is an appreciated last chance.
[I agree that Necro isn't nearly as good here as it is in, say, Zur or black Sidisi or even Chainer, but the effect is too powerful to ignore. While not to the same degree, it's sort of like saying you shouldn't run Counterspell just because you're running Mana Drain. You want both.
The only time I don't play Necro is 1) I don't have the mana constraints to reliably land it (white border mana fixing is harsh), or I rely on looting to play out of the graveyard. If neither are true, then you're making a misplay by not including a Necropotence in your deck.
Okay, I'm a little shaky on the archetype and commander, so let me see what we've got going on here.
My first thought is why is there a lack of madness cards? You're discarding anyway so adding some for that extra effect, like, say, Reckless Wurm or Fiery Temper. I also don't understand the lack of removal, like you're asking for a blowout. Specifically, Firestorm is on-function with your deck and is certainly better than Conflagratein most situations.
I don't "get" Hellcarver Demon, and I haven't since ROE. I know what he does, and I can read it, I just can't decipher why you'd run this over almost anything else. Maybe I'm too dense. :/
I think your reanimation suite is a bit suspect. Animate Dead? Necromancy? Reanimate? I know you're discarding, but since you're reanimating so heavily, I'd imagine you'd make terrific use of a Buried Alive and Entomb. The five drop 3/3 that does one-third of a buried alive reads as it'd be especially on-point.
I think your threat suite, while I of all people appreciate nostalgia, it reads like a greatest hits of 2012. Thunderblust? Hateflayer? Surely you'd rather reanimate Pathrazer of Ulamog and It That Betrays no? Bane of Bala Ged surely. Wurmcoil Engine would be a beating and a half.
I think your manabase could use a lot of work, even not looking to a fetch-dual-shock manabase. But I'm confident you know this and I'll leave it at that.
Zombie Infestation and Putrid Imp are surely better discard outlets than most of what you have. I'm assuming you've already considered Anvil of Bogardan? Jalum Tome is a wonderful card I discovered in WB Kaalia when I determined I couldn't reasonable use Necropotence. It's pretty efficient, cheap to activate, and colourless. Similarly, Smuggler's Copter though I'd value Jalum Tome over the Looter Scooter for this particular deck.
I find it impossible to leave feedback and meaningful discussion to this deck. It just...exists. It's ideology is too broad of a concept such that feedback isn't meaningful enough to make an iMPACT.
Ok, but what's your favorite mono-white legend of all time?
I find it impossible to leave feedback and meaningful discussion to this deck. It just...exists. It's ideology is too broad of a concept such that feedback isn't meaningful enough to make an iMPACT.
I love picking Fact or Fiction piles. It's such a subjective thing, and it's a lot of fun for everyone involved.
I love putting five cards in one stack while everyone drops their jaws...then I put a $5 bill in the other and watch them question the ethics of the right play vs the cash grab.
Low key I've been waiting for this deck to come up in the feed ever since the (I'm assuming gender here) her thread about it. Happy it finally happened.
- I see a lot of cards that care about Islands, and not to mention the suggestion here from @ForgottenOne for High Tide, but a lot of nonbasics that you could easily do without.
Rogue's Passage (you have evasion already).
Reliquary Tower (why do you need to horde cards in hand? An ability is only as good as your ability to use it, and this deck doesn't appear to have a need to horde cards)
Deserted Temple (you combo with Nykthos, once/turn cycle, and if you're doing that you're probably trying to storm already. I think you'd be better served by an Island, or a Candelabra of Tawnos in this slot, if I'm being brutally honest here).
Halimar Depths appears fine on the surface but do you really need 1/3 of a ponder in exchange for an EBT land? Again I suspect an island is superior here.
Myriad is OK, I suspect a Thawing Glaciers would go further for you though (and it still functions under B2B ).
Skerry is fine, probably better than Tomb in 80% of games. Path of Ancestry and Cavern of Souls are self-explanatory.
Since you could be playing so many more basic Islands, I imagine Back to Basics becomes an easy sell here, as does Engulf the Shore. Similarly Daze remains an incredible blowout that no one expects. Submerge is a great removal spell (how many games do you see where someone isn't playing "ramp to a million mono-G"?)
I bet instead of those shuffles, you'd be better served by a Time Spiral/Time Reversal if you don't have a Timetwister lying around. I don't see any cantrips. Those are the reason to play U imo, is there a reason to not include Brainstorm/Ponder/Preordain and their ilk?
I'm not really into the lab man wins, hence I haven't commented on this deck. But since you're on Proggy anyway, I'd hope you've got Finest Hour for the OTK.
Yeah, don't be like me that crams every tutour under the sun into your deck. Speaking from experience, while it's super cool the first few games to know you're playing 20% tutours in your deck and have created a super consistent gameplan, it is a novelty that wears thin soon unless you're in the cEDH pool or play such a demanding commander that you need that level of consistency.
When you get to the point of "Hmm, I wonder just how much this Imperial Seal would improve my deck..." you'll know you've gone too far. Don't be that guy that shows up with the $450 judge promo crappier version of Vampiric Tutor to the pick up game with nothing on the line. It's uhh...it's a pretty bad look.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
edit: It's also not a vampire, so nope, I can say I wouldn't play it.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
A couple notes here, that I really should be playing Ad Naus but at the same time, what am I drawing into? There's only so much need for more *****pire 1 drops in-hand and holding excess cards is not something the deck particularly cares about (I'm not running Reliquary Tower for Ad Naus smh). So, like, it's this awkward spot where it's good enough for sure but it's not really helping me where it would help, say, a combo deck to be able to go off. Does that make sense?
FWIW, yes, the Blood Celebrant totally would get a spot in the deck. It's no contest. I believe Blood Artist is a bit more suspect at the two drop with 0 power and that it only targets one player. It's likely still good enough as it still triggers Edgar, Shared Animosity, still sacs to Indulgent Aristocrat and still gets pumped by Legion Lieutenant. But, you know, I don't consider it an open-and-shut case. The four drop vampire competes with Purphoros and is a bit slower so I don't believe I would play it. But I wouldn't fault anyone for playing it if they were on more budget than my collection has been blessed with over the years. Speaking of budget, the last iteration I played had The Abyss in it. So, have fun getting a hold of one of those for a price less than one of your vital organs lmao. It was good at least, but like, maybe don't spend on a card that could be a mortgage payment though.
Lastly, if you don't like linear decks, this is not going to be a good deck for you. It literally does one thing, and while it does do that one thing very, very well, you will get bored of it and people will ask if you have a "real deck". Myself, I've actually stopped playing it, but I will keep the resource posted indefinitely because, I think, it's valuable to the community to have access to an optimized list as Edgar is a very popular commander.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Garruk Wildspeaker and Elspeth, Knight-Errant would in my estimation, pull far more weight than the current walker suite. Vivien might be okay, I have no experience with her.
Lack of removal is curious, are you adapting the "answer players, not threats" mentality? If so, how, I don't see any ways to win out of nowhere (you could stand to add in a Berserk and Become Immense, and typically a Triumph of the Hordes as well, if that were the case). FWIW, In think Arahbo does a better job at n Mirri IMHO. that strategy tha What does this deck do when Mirri dies (whom is not a sufficient threat on her own)? Existence of natural card advantage is bordering on criminally low to nonexistent (one monarch enabler is not enough). I imagine after the second board wipe you're frantically living off your top deck and hoping for gas...
Idk. Despite not having played a Mirri deck myself, I see little reason I'd pick this up, if this deck were the example list of the commander.
Please do not take my, admittedly harsh critiques as a personal attack. They are not. My aims are to help improve the deck to synergize it's pieces together. I can't do that if I fail to identify flaws.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I think the gearhulks are great but I struggle to see what verdurous gearhulk is doing here. That's a cut.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
So, I'm happy this one came up as a Glissa connoisseur or as I was in a previous life before choosing to live in the heat of draconic flames (fyi, I think that's somewhere in the Mountains of Shiv, about 72 Klicks out from my Nomad Outpost on Tarkir).
First suggestion is really like the rule 0 of Glissa decks. You never start this build without Guardian Beast, and this is the one deck where I'd argue his reserved list pricing is still far, far worth it. Adding a Darksteel Plate to this guy makes a pseudo Darksteel Forge for half the mana which is quite good. Pretty hard to justify playing the deck without this guy (impossible for me, in all actuality).
So, some of the suggestions I've come to enjoy were Viridian Longbow because often opponents read your cards and won't attack into your great wall of deathtouch. This allows you to gtet your triggers and pick off annoying pests that shouldn't stick to the board.
Next, I always absolutely adored the Salvaging Station package with this deck! This was the best deck for the Station that couldn't play Artificier's Intuition for a number of reasons, the best of which because Lotus Bloom becomes a reusable, legal Black Lotus here. And if that's not enough convincing (how could it not be), you can also keep graveyard decks super, super honest with the (I see you already have) Nihil Spellbomb, but you can also make great use of Phyrexian Furnace and Scrabbling Claws. In general I find your lack of more cantripping artifacts somewhat jarring, I'd at least feel better about this deck including
a Moriok Replica(whoops, missed that on first read) and Horizon Spellbomb. Maybe some other artifact sac outlets (KCI comes to mind) though I was quite partial to Grinding Station, which both sacs your spellbombs (that you can still draw on) and puts more Glissa targets in the 'Yard for better selection. Oh, and you can also make people regret wrathing you with Lifespark Spellbomb activations (or cycle it when not needed, or add extra power to your board or whatever) while Necrogen Spellbomb can soft lock someone's draw step, or again, cycle when not needed. Station is super super good, and even better here, people will learn to respect it after they're done hating what kind of machine you've constructed here.I think this naturally irritates people and they will want to send aggro your way (or they just don't like me ), so low mana answers to them are necessary. I'd call the E-Capsule you addressed already a corre piece (I'd play it alongside Gearhulk, not replace it with Gearhulk) because sometimes you need to answer things for under six mana and at instant speed. I'd also suggest with all these sacrifices, that Fangren Marauder does a terrific job of keeping our life totals in a nice and healthy range; do not be mislead by his ugly "5/5 for 6" stats, he more than pulls his weight once your sacrificing. Note if you're trying to soak damage, Forcefield is not worth buying into. Holding up 1 for every creature and still letting them trigger their swords and jittes is a pretty miserable experience for the money that thing commands normally, in my experiences.
I see you've got the Wurmcoil and Battlesphere, but friendly reminder that Scuttling Doom Engine is a pretty great clock here as well. People really don't like him being sacrificed on-demand.
If you do decide to add Nim Deathmantle, then Su-Chi is a combo with an arbitrarily large number of sacrifices for you. You can replicate this with Cathodion if your sac outlet is KCI, Ashnod's Altar or Phyrexian Altar specifically. Same combo, but with fewer sac outlets so it's a little more restrictive. Once you assemble the engine though you can murder everybody else at the table with Bitter Ordeal.
Once again, I hope I didn't come off too harsh on you.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Speaking as a primer authour, I don't think primer status should be a disqualifer from discussion honestly. Yes, we've worked for years, (for some of us a near decade even) on the deck so the likelihood of missing obvious cards is pretty low, but that doesn't absolve us of any margin for error. This thread also doesn't have to be about card selection, but also on the strategy of the deck in question. Play rate, good match ups/bad match ups, and ways for improvement on said bad matches. I.e. I know I've pretty well given up on improving my sub10% win rate vs Esper inside of Kaalia, but I still value the possible avenues of attack I never considered from others. Even if they end up not making it into the deck (for whatever reason), having something I never considered is an appreciated last chance.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
The only time I don't play Necro is 1) I don't have the mana constraints to reliably land it (white border mana fixing is harsh), or I rely on looting to play out of the graveyard. If neither are true, then you're making a misplay by not including a Necropotence in your deck.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
My first thought is why is there a lack of madness cards? You're discarding anyway so adding some for that extra effect, like, say, Reckless Wurm or Fiery Temper. I also don't understand the lack of removal, like you're asking for a blowout. Specifically, Firestorm is on-function with your deck and is certainly better than Conflagrate in most situations.
I don't "get" Hellcarver Demon, and I haven't since ROE. I know what he does, and I can read it, I just can't decipher why you'd run this over almost anything else. Maybe I'm too dense. :/
I think your reanimation suite is a bit suspect. Animate Dead? Necromancy? Reanimate? I know you're discarding, but since you're reanimating so heavily, I'd imagine you'd make terrific use of a Buried Alive and Entomb. The five drop 3/3 that does one-third of a buried alive reads as it'd be especially on-point.
I think your threat suite, while I of all people appreciate nostalgia, it reads like a greatest hits of 2012. Thunderblust? Hateflayer? Surely you'd rather reanimate Pathrazer of Ulamog and It That Betrays no? Bane of Bala Ged surely. Wurmcoil Engine would be a beating and a half.
I think your manabase could use a lot of work, even not looking to a fetch-dual-shock manabase. But I'm confident you know this and I'll leave it at that.
Zombie Infestation and Putrid Imp are surely better discard outlets than most of what you have. I'm assuming you've already considered Anvil of Bogardan? Jalum Tome is a wonderful card I discovered in WB Kaalia when I determined I couldn't reasonable use Necropotence. It's pretty efficient, cheap to activate, and colourless. Similarly, Smuggler's Copter though I'd value Jalum Tome over the Looter Scooter for this particular deck.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
The only one I've played to reasonable success; Thalia, Guardian of Thraben White Weenie. 1v1 play.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I love putting five cards in one stack while everyone drops their jaws...then I put a $5 bill in the other and watch them question the ethics of the right play vs the cash grab.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
- I see a lot of cards that care about Islands, and not to mention the suggestion here from @ForgottenOne for High Tide, but a lot of nonbasics that you could easily do without.
Since you could be playing so many more basic Islands, I imagine Back to Basics becomes an easy sell here, as does Engulf the Shore. Similarly Daze remains an incredible blowout that no one expects. Submerge is a great removal spell (how many games do you see where someone isn't playing "ramp to a million mono-G"?)
I bet instead of those shuffles, you'd be better served by a Time Spiral/Time Reversal if you don't have a Timetwister lying around. I don't see any cantrips. Those are the reason to play U imo, is there a reason to not include Brainstorm/Ponder/Preordain and their ilk?
It's goofy, but I am a fan of Mirror Mockery. It's no Helm of the Host, but the value is definitely present.
Is there a reason you're opting for Walk the Aeons over Nexus of Fate/Beacon of Tomorrows? Can't imagine you're buying it back often.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.