Except this set will impact modern more than most standard sets, and it undoubtedly contains cards that would never see the light of standard. Expecting something that just about everybody knows would be acceptable in modern such as Counterspellis one thing, but some people's expectations involved some of the most powerful cards in Legacy such as Force of Will and True-Name Nemesis, which absolutely nothing in that interview supports. There's a whole lot of space between putting out a set that is pushed compared to standard and turning Modern into some kind of no-RL Legacy.
Players have every right to be disappointed about this product's pricing or the lack of personal favorite cards, but we were never, from the start, entitled to seeing the Legacy-caliber cards around which many players based their expectations.
How effective the set is compared to a Standard set is clearly up for debate but the fact that it's even debatable is really frustrating to people; I'm just trying to establish where the set expectations could have come from.
As for people wanting Force of Will, Wasteland, TNN, and Black Lotus, I'm not giving sanctuary what actual predictions people made. I'm just pointing out a WotC announcement that hypes up the set as something that will impact Modern more than a Standard set.
I want to pose to you the same question I posed to others: where did your hyped expectations come from?
I went back and rewatched the announcement and they literally say (@14:48) "you don't have to worry about putting cards that are too broken into Standard. They can just skip into where they're meant to be" then the other two just agree, then they name a couple cards that have made a difference in Modern. Then @21:03 Nassif, "... as you were saying, sets generally don't have that big of an impact on Modern. Maybe 5ish cards can break through and make an impact because for whatever reason in the context of Modern they are more powerful than in the context of Standard, so there are things that can be printed into Standard safely while being powerful in Modern, but the majority of the time it's tough to do that. With this set you can just push the boundaries completely" then goes on to describe some things that would be too much for Standard (despite WotC admittedly considering Counterspell for Standard).
On the other hand... The dude in red does temper Nassif's statement a bit by saying that Nassif doesn't know what's in the set. Then after the cards are revealed, the guy in Blue says, "...an opportunity to deliver a bunch of stuff from a creative, or flavor, or mechanical direction that we've been wanting to do for awhile but couldn't find a place... Of course we try to fit them into Standard if we can but there's alot of ways that they can't. Either for complexity or the wrong audience and the answer just has to be 'no'".
I mostly wanted to include that first paragraph to show that the initial announcement of the set does set a power level expectation in the vein of "this will impact Modern more than a Standard set" and "we can print things that are too good for Standard". You can argue that all that doesn't matter because of the statements in the second paragraph, but frankly they don't actually relate to reining in the power level expectations that have now been set on an official WotC announcement.
Maybe there are more relevant quotes, maybe not. But evidence has been provided.
I'm pretty high on Kaya's Guile right now. Many are pointing at Edict + Exile, but I think Edict + 4 life is way better. Control is often just trying to scrape by at this point in the game and that combination is pretty good. The 1/1 is probably fairly useless outside desperation, but the Exile is a handy mainboard hate option in the right situations. I think the Entwine is mostly a trap or very win-more.
As a predominantly UBx player I'm not high on seeing White get more good things, but I do like this card. Could have been BG.
Can Dredge even handle packing this into it's list? I'm not overly familiar with the deck's finer points, but I would assume it has limited flex spots and they're more concerned with anti-hate than this.
The inclusion of the Swords makes me wonder if we may see the printing of a "fixed" Stoneforge Mystic that will work with the Swords but not Batterskull (e.g. a Stoneforge Mystic that only works with equipment that costs 3 or less).
Ya, I'm not very good at building fast decks, lol. I'm glad I dropped the thought here first because I like the Swords cycle a bit and they're just sort of sitting in my rares box.
I know there was once some play with Kuldotha Rebirth in a Goblins 8Whack like list. Maybe you could look in that direction? Use Rebirth and Engineer to get use of some of the artifacts and start swinging with Swords into your opponent with a go wide strategy that can port into a Swords strategy?
EDIT: I also had what is probably a horrible trash thought... Could you go for Blue Moon style list with Goblin Engineer, Sword of Sinew and Steel, and Liquimetal Coating? The use Spell Pierce and similar to keep your hack and slash engineer safe? Start using Coating + Sword to blow up lands. Coating also provides artifacts to sac to get a Sword back, you can fill extra creature slots with Warboss and Rabblemaster looking things.
EDIT again: Use Goblin Matron as Engineer 5-8 if you need. She probably costs too much though.
I also don't think Logic Knot is the same 99% of the time, but that could be a whole new thread.
I spent 6 months casting Knot in UW (and find it unplayable in just about every other blue shell for various other reasons). It was Counterspell most of the time. But it's mediocrity wasn't due to not being able to pay enough for X. Rather, the largest factors for its mediocrity were on-cast triggers, activated/triggered abilities, Cavern of Souls, and Aether Vial. Counterspell just ain't what it used to be. They're much more effective when trying to protect what you're doing than trying to stop what they're doing. Battlecruiser at its finest.
Yes, they're similar at the beginning of the game, but Logic Knot sort of dictates that you not run more than 3 of them and you very rarely Snap them back. I've been playing Silumgar's Scorn in this for awhile and Snapping back what amounts to actually Counterspell over and over again plays very differently than Logic Knot. I am never counting my grave to see if I can keep my overpriced win condition alive against a T9 Path to Exile. I can almost always Snap a Scorn without having to consider if I'm depleting too many resources for late game Knots.
At a minimum, the wide and obvious claim that Counterspell would just replace the strange x1-2 Negates/Knot/Something is absolutely true. Because you're replacing all the conditionals with just one absolute, you are more likely to just have the right counter at the right time.
One specific match up that surprised me was Tron- the most popular deck in the format, at the moment. Knot isn't going to be very effective, they have tons of mana to pay, but Counterspell is always going to outclass their one spell per turn strategy. Trust me, once you cast your 5th Counterspell against Tron, you'll never want Knot back.
The bullet point differences are:
Better deck building - No balancing these vs those counters
Higher chances of having a relevant counter - Double tapping that deck building
Much easier to Snap back - A seriously underrated advantage, they go miles further
I do, however, totally agree that there are a ton of ways around all counters. We are no longer just accounting for a x1 Thrun, we need to win the land fight to bypass Cavern of Souls, we need to bring Artifact hate to bypass the Aether Vial rushes, we need to be aware of the growing hand hate that threatens to remove more relevant things than Counters.
"Counterspell isn't what it used to be." I agree, I've said it myself, but that just means we need it now more than ever.
Thing about Flusterstorm is that I'm not sure if it counts towards the actual count of counterspells in the set because it's the BaB. I was reading an article earlier about how it was added to the set after all the other cards were finalized. Additionally, we have no unconditional counter yet and most sets have one. With the norm being 3 or 4 counters per set, I would assume we have a reasonable chance to have 1 more if Flusterstorm isn't counted.
I still have hope for Counterspell. We have 3 slots for it in the name and number crunch still.
I also don't think Logic Knot is the same 99% of the time, but that could be a whole new thread.
I think Planebound Accomplice needs a flicker effect to make him really shine. Pay a R, slam that minus button, flicker the walker for sustained value. Too bad Astral Drift can't hit walkers... Unless you turn them into DRAGONS!!
I think there's an old Daily MtG article about how designing a cycle of cards typically starts really well then falls off with the last couple; I think it gave some examples. I can't think of a name for the article and all I get when googling is articles about the keyword cycling.
Anyway, with White breaking the idea of a cycle of safety valves, my money is on Red just being some version of Pyrokinesis. It's about as Red as Red can be, but what it's allowed to target is anyone's guess.
Collected Company decks have known that 28 creatures that can be hit is the sweet spot for Collected Company to be worth it. I can't think of too many sorceries that I want to hit randomly off the top of my deck with no context. Company was also an instant and turning over the right creatures can suddenly win the game.
This is just a very unfortunate card. It could have been great, but the cmc restriction and not hitting instants as well really hurts this- even if it stayed a sorcery itself.
In the meantime, Force of Despair looks like it has rather fussy timing to me. Being free mana-wise definitely helps, but I doubt it's maindeckable--the kill conditions are too specific and remind me of Hallowed Moonlight. I guess trying to think of it as a black Essence Scatter might help its playability? Wait, Essence Scatter isn't Modern-playable....
I think it's a fixed timing Hallowed Moonlight. With Moonlight you need to drop it in response to a creature being cheated in, then your opponent knows not to go ham with more the rest of the turn. With FoD, you can wait, bluff, declare blockers, and scoop up all the maximum value without them being aware of anything.
My biggest issue, again is the word "Destroy". So many reasons why it's just not a relevant word anymore. Exile is just the new "cannot be regenerated".
As for people wanting Force of Will, Wasteland, TNN, and Black Lotus, I'm not giving sanctuary what actual predictions people made. I'm just pointing out a WotC announcement that hypes up the set as something that will impact Modern more than a Standard set.
"Reveal a Dragon"
I went back and rewatched the announcement and they literally say (@14:48) "you don't have to worry about putting cards that are too broken into Standard. They can just skip into where they're meant to be" then the other two just agree, then they name a couple cards that have made a difference in Modern. Then @21:03 Nassif, "... as you were saying, sets generally don't have that big of an impact on Modern. Maybe 5ish cards can break through and make an impact because for whatever reason in the context of Modern they are more powerful than in the context of Standard, so there are things that can be printed into Standard safely while being powerful in Modern, but the majority of the time it's tough to do that. With this set you can just push the boundaries completely" then goes on to describe some things that would be too much for Standard (despite WotC admittedly considering Counterspell for Standard).
On the other hand... The dude in red does temper Nassif's statement a bit by saying that Nassif doesn't know what's in the set. Then after the cards are revealed, the guy in Blue says, "...an opportunity to deliver a bunch of stuff from a creative, or flavor, or mechanical direction that we've been wanting to do for awhile but couldn't find a place... Of course we try to fit them into Standard if we can but there's alot of ways that they can't. Either for complexity or the wrong audience and the answer just has to be 'no'".
I mostly wanted to include that first paragraph to show that the initial announcement of the set does set a power level expectation in the vein of "this will impact Modern more than a Standard set" and "we can print things that are too good for Standard". You can argue that all that doesn't matter because of the statements in the second paragraph, but frankly they don't actually relate to reining in the power level expectations that have now been set on an official WotC announcement.
Maybe there are more relevant quotes, maybe not. But evidence has been provided.
"Reveal a Dragon"
As a predominantly UBx player I'm not high on seeing White get more good things, but I do like this card. Could have been BG.
"Reveal a Dragon"
"Reveal a Dragon"
"Reveal a Dragon"
"Reveal a Dragon"
I know it's an older Saffron Olive list, but it's a starting black.
EDIT: I also had what is probably a horrible trash thought... Could you go for Blue Moon style list with Goblin Engineer, Sword of Sinew and Steel, and Liquimetal Coating? The use Spell Pierce and similar to keep your hack and slash engineer safe? Start using Coating + Sword to blow up lands. Coating also provides artifacts to sac to get a Sword back, you can fill extra creature slots with Warboss and Rabblemaster looking things.
EDIT again: Use Goblin Matron as Engineer 5-8 if you need. She probably costs too much though.
"Reveal a Dragon"
At a minimum, the wide and obvious claim that Counterspell would just replace the strange x1-2 Negates/Knot/Something is absolutely true. Because you're replacing all the conditionals with just one absolute, you are more likely to just have the right counter at the right time.
One specific match up that surprised me was Tron- the most popular deck in the format, at the moment. Knot isn't going to be very effective, they have tons of mana to pay, but Counterspell is always going to outclass their one spell per turn strategy. Trust me, once you cast your 5th Counterspell against Tron, you'll never want Knot back.
The bullet point differences are:
I do, however, totally agree that there are a ton of ways around all counters. We are no longer just accounting for a x1 Thrun, we need to win the land fight to bypass Cavern of Souls, we need to bring Artifact hate to bypass the Aether Vial rushes, we need to be aware of the growing hand hate that threatens to remove more relevant things than Counters.
"Counterspell isn't what it used to be." I agree, I've said it myself, but that just means we need it now more than ever.
"Reveal a Dragon"
I still have hope for Counterspell. We have 3 slots for it in the name and number crunch still.
I also don't think Logic Knot is the same 99% of the time, but that could be a whole new thread.
"Reveal a Dragon"
If not that, I'm looking for an unconditional BB: exile target creature at instant speed. Maybe with Gain 2 life stapled to it.
"Reveal a Dragon"
This is too silly.
"Reveal a Dragon"
Anyway, with White breaking the idea of a cycle of safety valves, my money is on Red just being some version of Pyrokinesis. It's about as Red as Red can be, but what it's allowed to target is anyone's guess.
"Reveal a Dragon"
Spore Frog and Preordain at 2cmc with flashback.
"Reveal a Dragon"
This is just a very unfortunate card. It could have been great, but the cmc restriction and not hitting instants as well really hurts this- even if it stayed a sorcery itself.
"Reveal a Dragon"
My biggest issue, again is the word "Destroy". So many reasons why it's just not a relevant word anymore. Exile is just the new "cannot be regenerated".
"Reveal a Dragon"