I'm glad to see the response in this thread! The discussion is great and there are some important points being made.
Here's what I think of some of the general issues raised in RW:
Card Draw and Flow - it's been highlighted that this is a major problem in RW, and I agree. However, I think that recent printings in Light Up the Stage, Experimental Frenzy, etc. are slowly addressing this issue in a color appropriate way. Combine them with the classic all-stars of Boros (Land Tax, Wheel of Fortune, Outpost Siege, etc.), as well as white's many small dedicated archetype support cards (like Sram, Senior Artificer, Dawn of Hope, Mentor of the Meek etc.), and it might be possible that this issue will slowly improve enough for RW to stop lagging behind so hard.
Mana Issues - Cards like Knight of the White Orchid, Boreas Charger, Isolated Watchtower, Sword of the Animist, and the recent Smothering Tithe can help produce a fair amount of mana, and when combined with regular artifact mana it seems like RW can keep up with the pace of the table. However, I peeked at EDHREC's Boros staples section, and I was shocked at the number of weak artifacts there are there, cards like Burnished Hart, Boros Cluestone and every other 3CMC bad mana rock. This points out to me that RW is really suffering in terms of mana and that there aren't better choices to have.
As a result, I think we can all agree that a RW commander that costs more than 4 will have a very big problem consistently hitting the board even with all of that support.
Removal Issues - I was actually very surprised to find claims in this thread saying black removal was better, which I wholeheartedly disagree with. White has Swords to Plowshares and Path to Exile, two of the strongest and most efficient spot removals in the format, and Oblivion Ring and Banishing Light which remove just about anything, along with noncreature removal such as Crush Contraband, Return to Dust, as well as a ton of diverse mass removal, like Cleansing Nova, Hour of Revelation. You can even blow up lands with Armageddon! Black can't do that!
I'd like to think harder about what we want from a RW commander, since if we don't know what that is we can't ask WOTC to print it for us.
Spellslinger commanders - I don't think RW can be a true spellslinging deck, since that archetype needs a LOT of card draw. RG has Wort, the Raidmother to copy giant spells in a color identity that has a ton of mana to pour into giant spells and tons of tokens to abuse the commander. Anything with blue or black probably has sufficient card draw that's built into the color. White is a big problem in that regard - even mono R can do fine with Zada, Hedron Grinder. With that in mind, the closest thing to spellslinging RW will likely do is stuff with Monastery Mentor and such, but there's really not much to work with.
Auras/Equipments - I feel like there are plenty of RW commanders that support running a ton of these. This relates pretty heavily to the claim that most boros commanders are just legendary turn-me-sideways cards that don't do much. I think the rest is pretty obvious.
Hi all. I'd like to open a discussion about Boros commanders and their possible customization, a well known problem that has been going on for as long as EDH has existed. Granted, new commanders have come along in the form of Aurelia, Exemplar of Justice and Tajic, Legion's Edge, but they don't really cover much of anything new in Boros.
My idea came from this video. They had some pretty interesting ideas for commanders and I'd like to keep the creativity train rolling.
Mods, if this belongs to the "Print this Wizards" thread feel free to move it, but I feel like it deserves a separate discussion.
My two cents, in addition to the video's points, are:
Boros is a fast guild. I feel like 4CMC should be the maximum cost of a boros commander, except some rare cases. The guild has no real means of mana acceleration so an expensive cost would make the commander difficult to play. Firesong and Sunspeaker is a very cool idea, but its cost makes it very casual and rather ineffective.
Keywords are a pretty big identity for boros creatures. Stuff like First / Double strike, Vigilance, Haste, Lifelink etc.
What I'm personally looking for is a new angle on Boros. Something that explores the identity of the guild and makes it more interesting than simply turning creatures sideways.
With that in mind, here are several brainstorms. They range from underpowered to overpowered, but the key is doing new stuff.
2WR
Legendary Creature - Soldier
Lifelink
Whenever an opponent casts a noncreature spell, they may have The Punisher deal 3 damage to them. If they don't, destroy target nonbasic land they control of their choice.
2/2
WR
Legendary Creature - Cleric
Vigilance, Haste R, T, Discard a card: Draw a card. W, T, Exile a creature card from your graveyard: Create a 1/1 white spirit creature token with flying and lifelink.
1/1
Honestly, it might be better like this: 1WR
Legendary Planeswalker
+1: You may discard a card. If you do, draw a card.
-2: Destroy target artifact or enchantment. You gain 2 life.
-6: Create five 4/4 white angel tokens with flying and vigilance. Each of them deals damage equal to its power to target creature.
{3}
I know it's similar to Nahiri, the Harbinger, but honestly, wouldn't you be OK with her as a commander?
1WR
First Strike, Menace
Whenever a creature token enters the battlefield under your control, it gains +1/+1 and haste until end of turn.
Whenever you cast a creature spell, you may exile target nontoken creature you control. If you do, return that card to the battlefield under your control at end of turn.
1/3
2WR
Legendary Creature
Whenever you cast Tribal Lord, exile target creature card from your graveyard with a tribal counter on it.
Creatures you control that share a creature type with cards in exile with tribal counters on them get +1/+0 and have first strike.
If one or more tokens would be created under your control that share a type with a creature in exile with a tribal counter on it, twice that many tokens are created instead.
2/3
2WWR
Legendary Creature - Angel
Flash
Flying, Lifelink
Other red creatures you control have lifelink.
Other white creatures you control get +2/+0.
4/4
Whenever a creature you control attacks, you may discard a card. If you do, draw a card.
Battalion - Whenever ~ and two other creatures you control attack, discard your hand and draw three cards.
Creatures you control with Lifelink have Double Strike.
Whenever a nontoken creature you control attacks, you may destroy target nonbasic land that player controls. If you do, prevent all combat damage that creature would deal until end of turn.
Whenever ~ attacks, create X 1/1 creature tokens tapped and attacking defending player, where X is the number of attacking creatures.
Red instant and sorcery spells you control have trample. (If this spell would deal fatal damage to a creature or planeswalker, you may have it deal excess damage to that permanent's controller)
So yeah, I went on way too far. What are your thoughts? Is Boros a viable EDH guild in your opinion? Do you have any new ideas to freshen up the guild, or in general?
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Here's what I think of some of the general issues raised in RW:
Mana Issues - Cards like Knight of the White Orchid, Boreas Charger, Isolated Watchtower, Sword of the Animist, and the recent Smothering Tithe can help produce a fair amount of mana, and when combined with regular artifact mana it seems like RW can keep up with the pace of the table. However, I peeked at EDHREC's Boros staples section, and I was shocked at the number of weak artifacts there are there, cards like Burnished Hart, Boros Cluestone and every other 3CMC bad mana rock. This points out to me that RW is really suffering in terms of mana and that there aren't better choices to have.
As a result, I think we can all agree that a RW commander that costs more than 4 will have a very big problem consistently hitting the board even with all of that support.
Removal Issues - I was actually very surprised to find claims in this thread saying black removal was better, which I wholeheartedly disagree with. White has Swords to Plowshares and Path to Exile, two of the strongest and most efficient spot removals in the format, and Oblivion Ring and Banishing Light which remove just about anything, along with noncreature removal such as Crush Contraband, Return to Dust, as well as a ton of diverse mass removal, like Cleansing Nova, Hour of Revelation. You can even blow up lands with Armageddon! Black can't do that!
I'd like to think harder about what we want from a RW commander, since if we don't know what that is we can't ask WOTC to print it for us.
Spellslinger commanders - I don't think RW can be a true spellslinging deck, since that archetype needs a LOT of card draw. RG has Wort, the Raidmother to copy giant spells in a color identity that has a ton of mana to pour into giant spells and tons of tokens to abuse the commander. Anything with blue or black probably has sufficient card draw that's built into the color. White is a big problem in that regard - even mono R can do fine with Zada, Hedron Grinder. With that in mind, the closest thing to spellslinging RW will likely do is stuff with Monastery Mentor and such, but there's really not much to work with.
Auras/Equipments - I feel like there are plenty of RW commanders that support running a ton of these. This relates pretty heavily to the claim that most boros commanders are just legendary turn-me-sideways cards that don't do much. I think the rest is pretty obvious.
Punisher commanders - On the one hand RW has some of the best punishing effects (Stranglehold, Price of Glory, War's Toll, Zo-zu the Punisher, Rule of Law, etc.), but on the other hand it's a good point that tax commanders can feel really bad to play against, so it's a fair assumption that WOTC won't print another GAAIV in RW. Land destruction is also frowned upon in many EDH communities, so I wouldn't count on them to print it either, at least not in a precon. What's left is generic hate effects and it's pretty hard to balance them, especially around the command zone.
Examples of what might see print: Thalia, Heretic Cathar, Zo-zu the Punisher, Gaddock Teeg, Kaervek the Merciless, Mogis, God of Slaughter, Ajani Vengeant
Examples of stuff that will probably not see print: Hokori, Dust Drinker, Derevi, Empyrial Tactician (was thought to be ok but turned out horribly imbalanced)
My idea came from this video. They had some pretty interesting ideas for commanders and I'd like to keep the creativity train rolling.
Mods, if this belongs to the "Print this Wizards" thread feel free to move it, but I feel like it deserves a separate discussion.
My two cents, in addition to the video's points, are:
With that in mind, here are several brainstorms. They range from underpowered to overpowered, but the key is doing new stuff.
2WR
Legendary Creature - Soldier
Lifelink
Whenever an opponent casts a noncreature spell, they may have The Punisher deal 3 damage to them. If they don't, destroy target nonbasic land they control of their choice.
2/2
WR
Legendary Creature - Cleric
Vigilance, Haste
R, T, Discard a card: Draw a card.
W, T, Exile a creature card from your graveyard: Create a 1/1 white spirit creature token with flying and lifelink.
1/1
Honestly, it might be better like this:
1WR
Legendary Planeswalker
+1: You may discard a card. If you do, draw a card.
-2: Destroy target artifact or enchantment. You gain 2 life.
-6: Create five 4/4 white angel tokens with flying and vigilance. Each of them deals damage equal to its power to target creature.
{3}
I know it's similar to Nahiri, the Harbinger, but honestly, wouldn't you be OK with her as a commander?
First Strike, Menace
Whenever a creature token enters the battlefield under your control, it gains +1/+1 and haste until end of turn.
Whenever you cast a creature spell, you may exile target nontoken creature you control. If you do, return that card to the battlefield under your control at end of turn.
1/3
Legendary Creature
Whenever you cast Tribal Lord, exile target creature card from your graveyard with a tribal counter on it.
Creatures you control that share a creature type with cards in exile with tribal counters on them get +1/+0 and have first strike.
If one or more tokens would be created under your control that share a type with a creature in exile with a tribal counter on it, twice that many tokens are created instead.
2/3
Legendary Creature - Angel
Flash
Flying, Lifelink
Other red creatures you control have lifelink.
Other white creatures you control get +2/+0.
4/4
So yeah, I went on way too far. What are your thoughts? Is Boros a viable EDH guild in your opinion? Do you have any new ideas to freshen up the guild, or in general?