I’m just going to say that most works of fiction that are considered great do not just kill large numbers of characters. They use death sparingly and impactfully. I don’t know how others feel about it but it didn’t take long before death became a joke in Game of Thrones. Killing well liked characters too often can be a great way to lose a ton of your fans. They killed Gideon and if their Facebook poll is to be considered it had a great impact on people because he rolled over arguably better characters in all of his rounds so far. Just because you don’t like the gatewatch doesn’t mean they need to die. And not to mention the only reason you know any of this is because of leaks. Had it not been for that you would go into reading the novel still thinking that almost anyone could die and it would be way more satisfying. You’re only complaining because you recurved an incomplete version before having the opportunity to consume it as it was meant to be.
And people wonder why WotC gets so upset about leaks.
Where did Bolas find this spell again? I think it make more sense for him to research it himself then find it....
Even if I buy your logic it doesn't work. Cause he can fly out of range, use his necromancy to control Oketra or just mind control Lili outright.
Also gee WOTC talks a big game about diversity puts Teferi on the Gatewatch then proceeds to have him do nothing of note in War of the Spark. After having him do very little against Belzenlok in Dominaria besides job with Jaya and Karn to the like of Urgoros. Classic at least Ajani got flavor text in this set.
Well during the PAX panel they said he found the ancient spell. I'm paraphrasing but they way they said it made it seem like it was not a spell of his own creation, if that's what you mean be he researched it himself.
And sure, he could have done any of those things but he's also busy being a conquering overlord. We don't know the details of the Elderspell so we don't know what it requires of Bolas. It's not like there's not tons of precedent in many fictions of powerful spells requiring massive portions of the casters mental focus. We also don't know the details of how Bontu got a hold of Bolas. So sure, all of those things could have been things that happened but it's not unreasonable that they didn't. So what's the point of *****ing about it?
Can't Ugin forcibly make people planeswalk? Maybe he could send Gids to Theros prior to death... but that would be weird, we already have one mono-white planeswalker to rescue from Theros.
Ugh.... Ajani is going to have to give out so many hugs to soothe the gatewatch after this.
For one; Ugin isn't on Ravnica so he can't help Gideon. Secondly the only instance we know of Ugin doing that is a psychic trigger he put in Jace's mind. unlikely that he could have done that quickly while Gideon was dying.
Also: Do none of you think that maybe Bolas isn't immune from the effects of the Elderspell because it's not a spell he created custom to his desires but found through research. It's an ancient spell that he found so it's not like he can just go fiddling with it however he wants. Old Magic. Not the kind you find in your ivory towers.
The protection offered by Lazotep to the Eternals in the novel isn't that spectacular. It does well against weaker weapons like knives, but heavier weapons like swords seem to deal with it rather easily.
The most important function Lazotep has is that organic matter can't pass through the Planar Bridge and the Lazotep coating allows the Eternals to pass through it.
This is the second time I’ve seen you talking about what’s in or not in the novel. Care to explain?
Woah, wait a second. I'm not sure if you're implying this or I'm realizing it. But if the trials existed before Bolas came and the "worthy" were being embalmed for literally thousands of years, couldn't this explain the numbers discrepancy? In other words, what if the em embalmed dead from long before Bolas' arrival were retroactively eternalized?
Mutha****er I'd love to but someone thought it was a good idea to wait until after the whole set was spoiled and we were all confused as hell by cards like Chandra's Triumph to release the damn book.
My only issue with the Eternals being a threat is one of logistics. The whole Amonkhet scheme has been going on for 50 years, and the trials are implied to take several weeks/months to complete so realistically there should be a very limited number of trials per year.
The upper estimates at most would mean an army of around 1000.
Ravnica has a lot more than just that.
Well, for one, Bolas didn't create the trials from whole cloth. He merely corrupted and twisted them to his ends. Meaning that this system of training and becoming worthy already existed. Bolas simply sped the process up. So when the Hours finally came the necropolis was likely full of people who had passed the trials before Bolas came. And as was said, earlier in the thread, the eternals aren't only comprised of the single victor of each Trial of Zeal. Anyone who made it to the trial was sent to become an eternal. Add in the various non-humanoid creatures that were eternalized and you've got a serious army. Had they gone to any other plane they may have been a threat. But on Ravnica it's just Tuesday.
As far as I remember, after Bolas 'killed' Ugin in the Meditation realm and Ugin came back to life later, Bolas was likewise wondering whether Ugin would rise again after he killed him on Tarkir. In original timeline when Bolas visited, Ugin would be dead and bones. In new timeline, Ugin was cocooned, and Bolas wanted to discover if Ugin yet lived, but was scared off.
Here's me issue with this time travel thing they said was only effecting Tarkir. There's a big difference between a Bolas who sees Ugin's skeleton and a Bolas who sees Ugin's hedron cocoon. Cocoon Bolas would go through the Multiverse wondering if Ugin still lived inside the weird hedron cocoon, and Bones Bolas would go through the Multiverse happy that Ugin is verifiably dead.
These two Bolases would behave *very* differently over the next 1000 years until Sarkhan is born and goes back in time. Their plans and their actions would greatly diverge. So how can Wizards say the time travel impact is only on Tarkir? It can't possible be so. It changed Bolas.
So the question becomes: If Sarkhan was born after the Mending, and Bolas set things in motion to regain his power immediately after the Mending and before Sarkhan was born, what impact did the time travel have on Bolas' plans? He obviously still set everything up on Amonkhet, and did everything else the 'same' up to when Sarkhan went back in time. Or did he?
This is why I don't like poorly executed time travel stories.
Specifically they said that planeswalkers would be vehicles for the change. We don’t know if Bolas is accounting for Ugin or not. We know that he knows something weird is happening with Ugin and we know that Ugin has taken active measures to prevent Bolas knowing that Ugin is back. If they want to maintain Bolas’ character then they should have him accounting for Ugin in his plans just because there’s a chance that he could be a problem.
If we had more insight into things, say via more weekly web fiction, maybe we all wouldn’t be so damn confused about all this stuff. Even as someone who normally defends wizards I think they’ve handles the story with the crossover of the novel and the online stuff pretty poorly.
For a good reason as to why the Eternals are not a threat to Ravnica I simply direct you to the flavor text of Cyclonic Rift. One Izzet mage is worth a legion of Eternals while Eternals were trained in hand to hand combat and maybe some magic but nothing on the scale which Ravnican mages would be capable of. Add to that legions of Angels piloting a what amounts to a small Death Star, their own incalculable mass of golgari zombies, biologically enhanced Simic Super Soldiers, and the Selesnya and Gruul bringing the very plane itself to bare and I'd say that if it was war on Ravnica that Bolas had actually been after then he came under-prepared. but as was said earlier Bolas doesn't actually care about the attack on the plane itself. It's just a diversion.
Edit: Why would the eternals have Kaladesh gear? Tezzeret was pretty well run off by Mama Nalaar and the Gatewatch. And even if Tezz could replicate the works from Kaladesh he certainly couldn't do it at such a rate as to equip even a small fraction of the eternal army. I quess they have Kaladeshi thopters on their side because Dovin and the Azorius have been producing them.
Well, while we are accustomed to characters from 80s-90s cartoon who did not EVEN ONCE change their clothes, we can't actually say she does not seem like Mu, because we only see arms and legs of her. Consider Mu is extremely tamiyo-ish in the original art for the global series (blu dressed, white hair similar to white moonfolks appendages-ears), so maybe they tried to revamp her style in a way that could strongly differentiate one from another EVEN in a great picture including more planeswalkers, for example promotional illustrations or even cards'. We should doubt more about the type of weapon she is brandishing than her clothes. It's more like a plummage weapon or a lance with wind/sonic effect than water (even though water should have more that aspect of pale transparency than freaking sky-blue, especially in the winter of ravnica)
Edit: on second analysis Tamiyo is more of a green-ish turquoise hue than blue...
Except that exactly 0 planeswalkers have changed their clothes for the entire time there has been planeswalker cards. Because clothes are part of being able to quickly identify an image of a person, as well as a major part of a characters silhouette. Also the wanderer's weapon is part of the look that we are considering. Nothing about the image fits Mu. Not clothing, or weaponry, or color. It already didn't make sense to bring Jiangg into the main story when they could have made a new walker and needed to put in just about the same amount of work into creating them. The last thing, I think, that we want is a throw away walker from a supplemental product.
I think it's fair to say that neither Karn or Dack would know of Ob and he would certainly try to manipulate them and use them if it benefits him. And of all the walkers out there I think Ob is the one least cool with being forced into subservience to Bolas or at the very least losing the spark he just got back to Bolas.
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A crone is just an old woman.
And people wonder why WotC gets so upset about leaks.
Well during the PAX panel they said he found the ancient spell. I'm paraphrasing but they way they said it made it seem like it was not a spell of his own creation, if that's what you mean be he researched it himself.
And sure, he could have done any of those things but he's also busy being a conquering overlord. We don't know the details of the Elderspell so we don't know what it requires of Bolas. It's not like there's not tons of precedent in many fictions of powerful spells requiring massive portions of the casters mental focus. We also don't know the details of how Bontu got a hold of Bolas. So sure, all of those things could have been things that happened but it's not unreasonable that they didn't. So what's the point of *****ing about it?
For one; Ugin isn't on Ravnica so he can't help Gideon. Secondly the only instance we know of Ugin doing that is a psychic trigger he put in Jace's mind. unlikely that he could have done that quickly while Gideon was dying.
Also: Do none of you think that maybe Bolas isn't immune from the effects of the Elderspell because it's not a spell he created custom to his desires but found through research. It's an ancient spell that he found so it's not like he can just go fiddling with it however he wants. Old Magic. Not the kind you find in your ivory towers.
This is the second time I’ve seen you talking about what’s in or not in the novel. Care to explain?
Literally exactly what I was saying.
Mutha****er I'd love to but someone thought it was a good idea to wait until after the whole set was spoiled and we were all confused as hell by cards like Chandra's Triumph to release the damn book.
Well, for one, Bolas didn't create the trials from whole cloth. He merely corrupted and twisted them to his ends. Meaning that this system of training and becoming worthy already existed. Bolas simply sped the process up. So when the Hours finally came the necropolis was likely full of people who had passed the trials before Bolas came. And as was said, earlier in the thread, the eternals aren't only comprised of the single victor of each Trial of Zeal. Anyone who made it to the trial was sent to become an eternal. Add in the various non-humanoid creatures that were eternalized and you've got a serious army. Had they gone to any other plane they may have been a threat. But on Ravnica it's just Tuesday.
Specifically they said that planeswalkers would be vehicles for the change. We don’t know if Bolas is accounting for Ugin or not. We know that he knows something weird is happening with Ugin and we know that Ugin has taken active measures to prevent Bolas knowing that Ugin is back. If they want to maintain Bolas’ character then they should have him accounting for Ugin in his plans just because there’s a chance that he could be a problem.
If we had more insight into things, say via more weekly web fiction, maybe we all wouldn’t be so damn confused about all this stuff. Even as someone who normally defends wizards I think they’ve handles the story with the crossover of the novel and the online stuff pretty poorly.
Edit: Why would the eternals have Kaladesh gear? Tezzeret was pretty well run off by Mama Nalaar and the Gatewatch. And even if Tezz could replicate the works from Kaladesh he certainly couldn't do it at such a rate as to equip even a small fraction of the eternal army. I quess they have Kaladeshi thopters on their side because Dovin and the Azorius have been producing them.
Except that exactly 0 planeswalkers have changed their clothes for the entire time there has been planeswalker cards. Because clothes are part of being able to quickly identify an image of a person, as well as a major part of a characters silhouette. Also the wanderer's weapon is part of the look that we are considering. Nothing about the image fits Mu. Not clothing, or weaponry, or color. It already didn't make sense to bring Jiangg into the main story when they could have made a new walker and needed to put in just about the same amount of work into creating them. The last thing, I think, that we want is a throw away walker from a supplemental product.
Also who the hell is Li Shan?