I don't support any bans currently so there is nothing on that front.
You legit think the format is fine? I cant. I cant look at KCI's win rate and top 8 conversion rate in comparison to its meta share, and say that its 'fine'.
Yes, I do.
I mean let's turn this around. Krark-Clan Ironworks is banned. Now what?
Then the format is suddenly fine? UW/x, BG/x, Humans, Spirits, Burn, Dredge, Tron, Titan, Scales, GDS, Storm, Hollow One, etc. all aren't going anywhere.
It's one thing to look at numbers absolutely objectively and say this might be better than others. It could be a problem.
It's another one when it becomes about personal enjoyment. When I play the game I certainly don't think "man those few KCI decks that I never face are way too good and ruin my fun". That's not how it works.
If anybody claims that a single deck that doesn't even has a high metashare is the only reason they are not enjoying a format and think it's not fine then they are only fooling themselves. KCI hasn't even shown to be a deck that suppresses certain kind of strategies. Decks like Phoenix on the other hand have definitely shown to annihilate certain kind of strategies. So you can ban KCI and it will do absolutely nothing because the format will be just as it is now just without KCI.
What an outstanding job! Well done. You have done something absolutely inconsequential instead of powering up other things via unbans.
If that line of action makes someone personally happy then whatever. I would only shake my head and shrug my shoulders in the face of it.
After the frenzy that the Modern community in general has whipped itself into for this B&R, 'no changes' would be a hilarious outcome. Bonus points for no changes across the board with no further explanations for any format.
I wouldn't be mad about it.
Sure it would be time to finally unleash Stoneforge Mystic after her partner-in-crime Jace, The Mind Sculptor was already released but that's also pretty much it. I mean I also would be for unbanning Preordain but I guess with Phoenix being the new hot thing I guess we can forget about that. Thanks Arclight Phoenix
I don't support any bans currently so there is nothing on that front.
Some interesting things in there but it shows that nobody should take this as the absolute gospel. The data is incomplete and so should be paired with something else to draw conclusions from it.
For example in this it shows that Spirits has done absolutely terrible against KCI but in ktkenshinxs analysis Spirits does actually pretty decent against KCI. So it's easy to draw wrong conclusions just based on this. If I take this and compare it with ktkenshinxs data though a few things can become clear though.
Spirits indeed doesn't do well against Phoenix. As a matter of fact Phoenix does decent against all decks that rely on heavy board presence to win the game. Bolts for days and Thing in the Ice make sure of that. Against decks that don't do that things are looking not as hot though.
GDS is interesting because in ktkenshinxs data it's not well represented and by the data that is there it looks not so good. Hard to draw conclusions here based on that. Pairing this with my personal opinion though I would at least say that GDS doesn't have a favorable matchup against Phoenix. I think that the matchup is even and very skill dependent. In the last SCG Open Top 8 both GDS players quickly lost 0-2 against their Phoenix opponents.
Misevaluating how much life you can safely pay can be punished quickly and harshly by the Phoenix deck and there is also the fact that GDS is ill-equipped to handle all the angles of attack. Destroy removal is notoriously bad against a flying creature with haste that returns from the graveyard and the premier spell of choice for that is Fatal Push which in turn needs Revolt to even be able to hit a Phoenix. Something that will not the case every single time. Stubborn Denial also isn't at its best in the matchup because both Arclight Phoenix and Thing in the Ice don't actually care if a spell resolves or not. They only care about casting them so if they have a mixture of their 1 mana cantrips and bolts it's trivial to bring back Phoenixes or transform a Thing and Denial won't change that. Speaking of Thing I wouldn't say it's at its best in the GDS matchup but the text is still relevant. Gurmag Angler getting bounced is very bad news and 7 power also means you might not be able to even afford a single hit from it.
I know Phoenix players like Ross Merriam actually say to not bring in graveyard hate against them and I think that's right for decks like UW/x or GB/x which already have maindeck answers to stop getting grinded out by Phoenixes. In GDS you probably really want those Leyline of the Void or Surgical Extractions though to stop that angle of attack. But Phoenix players are also wising up and bring in their own Extractions to counter opposing ones. Something to keep in mind probably.
mostly agree with your other claims. though i think UW control is in the same space as GDS for fair decks. i remember touching on the topic in a response to some generic reddit post, but i believe that UW fails to have a sustained presence despite its 'stats' because the deck runs contrary to what modern is about nowadays. the deck purely reactive and does its best (and succeeds to a good extent) to ignore text boxes, so it gets to that 'alright to pretty good' range against most anything. with modern being about deck counters, proactive decks jousting, and a fast shifting meta though UW isnt offering any edge that top level players might typically seek out. when your goal isnt so much to win matches, but to win tournaments (or place well); the risk reward payoff for choosing a deck that capitalizes on a good read on the top tables and a strong proactive plan that can muscle through games where variance swings your way is just better (imo).
It's funny you say that because I too think there is some hive mind thinking among certain Modern players. I don't want to paint anyone in a bad light here. Reid Duke for example is a way better and more experienced player than me and in many videos of his there is a theme where he states that being proactive is a trait he values and thinks is better. In the last SCG Open he dropped 5-3 with Abzan. Two of his losses were on camera and both times it was against a UW/x player and he lost them pretty convincingly to be honest. Even the commentators said that.
I also remember a watching a Youtube video of a GDS players who said at the beginning that he thinks he has a good matchup against UW. He lost the match 0-2 after that.
Let's make one thing clear. UW Control is an objectively powerful deck. The numbers are there to prove it. Personal opinion doesn't play a role in that. Even the "fair deck killer" Tron doesn't have an auto win against UW because that is not how things work.
Will the deck ever rule the meta? Probably not unless we get stuff like Sensei's Divining Top, Brainstorm, Ponder to unlock the full potential of the Miracle spells and Counterbalance of course or we get some other new toys to play with. But here is the thing everybody should keep in mind. Control by its very nature doesn't appeal to everyone which means it will always have a lower share than it objectively should have.
In RTR-Theros Standard Sphinx's Revelation Control was the objectively most powerful deck in the format and yet Mono-Black Devotion was still played in higher numbers despite of that. There are tons of people who just love to smash with creatures and that is OK. That's just how it is and nobody will be able to change that.
But Control will always be there and it will punish decks and people who don't respect it. Now more then ever in the entire history of Modern. Because Jace, The Mind Sculptor, Teferi, Hero of Dominaria and Azcanta, The Sunken Ruin aren't screwing around. They can put games away quickly and make it nigh unwinnable for the opponent. A trait that Control didn't really have before them in Modern but it is here now and it is there to stay.
Hmm something interesting I just noticed is that I remember the format in the past being heavenly Overgrown Tomb decks vs Steam Vents decks and things certainly have shifted from that. Looking at all the GP/PT Top 8s of 2018 makes it certainly the year of the Hallowed Fountain but besides that there is a lot of diversity in color pairings.
It's a 2018 summary of all the compiled GP/SCG data we have about matchups and MWP. I'll publish to Reddit on Monday after incorporating feedback. I request that people keep this under wraps until it's finalized. Please note the limitations section and don't just parrot about how N isn't 10,000. Nothing drives me crazier.
Here are the summarized MWPs for top decks with N>300 from the past year with sample size and 95% confidence interval for the MWP:
I'm not going to try and translate the matchup win% matrix here because there's too much going on there. Check out the post for details about those matchups.
Looking forward to feedback!
As always you never disappoint.
Something interesting things in the matchup section that surprised me or reaffirmed my feelings.
For example Jeskai having that poor of a Burn matchup in this data set surprised me. I mean that's one of the few matchups where Lightning Helix can truly shine.
UW pulling way ahead of Jeskai on the other hand isn't surprising. I already said it before but the sacrifices you make in Jeskai are questionable IMO. The difference in the Tron matchup being the best example of it and it's not like UW actually has trouble with heavy creature decks as this shows. I mean Terminus is there for a reason. Spirits is an exception but then Jeskai is still only dead even against it in this data set so yeah whatever.
Funnily enough this even shows why the last GP Top 8 probably turned out the way it did. Spirits does pretty good against KCI but it in turn gets picked apart by the Phoenix decks and indeed there was no Spirits in the Top 16 while 4 Phoenix decks were so KCI got one of it's bad matchups cleaned away all the way to the top. How convenient.
What's the takeaway of that? Blame Arclight Phoenix for everything bad
I like how we went from "midrange creature decks completely suck vs terminus" to "salty jund players wanting their deck to be the best again".
Newsflash: Wanting Midrange to be able to compete in Modern does not equate to wanting Midrange to be the best archetype.
And how would that work?
Modern is a non-rotating format. Have you looked at the other non-rotating formats? There isn't much Midrange around in them. Can you play something like Jund /Naya/Abzan etc. in Legacy? Of course. It is actually a good idea? No, it isn't.
I have made a big post about Midrange in this thread quite a while ago and also made a separate thread about it so I don't want to repeat everything.
In the end Midrange is a jack of all trades, master of none archetype. It trades power for adaptability and versatility. It does multiple things but nothing really well. That's fine in Standard because the power level isn't that high to begin with and it was also fine in Modern when it was younger. But as the format grows older it grows more powerful and that's where the problem lies. Every other archetype absolutely knows what it wants to do and is focused on that and if they get to do it that will always trump everything a Midrange deck is capable of doing.
Yes actually. Midrange is actually doing just fine in legacy compared to modern. Both blue-based and otherwise. Maverick continues to find its way around. Greedy 4 color value machines like Czech pile can carve a niche just fine in legacy. Grixis control, despite its name plays very much like a midrange deck, as does stoneblade.
If anything, legacy lacks in aggro, not midrange.
Not strong enough to be at the top consistently but able to perform decently to carve out a niche for dedicated players. Is that an unreasonable expectation for midrange in modern?
I would say that it already is that way but obviously that requires an exact definition to actually measure things. If we look at tournament results we often see at least some number of Midrange decks in them. Maybe they haven't won, maybe they didn't even make top 8 but they were in the upper echelons of a tournament. There is also the issue of defining the Death's Shadow decks because if you define them as Midrange as it is on this site for example then things look even better.
I assume that is not good enough for you so how much more should it be in your opinion?
Nobody actually knows that and there is good chance nobody ever will.
Anyone with any experience with either deck could likely draw that conclusion. As I mentioned before, it attacks on every weakness of Twin: discard, counters, removal, and a quick clock backed by things that don't die to Lightning Bolt. It's both faster and more robust than 2018 Jund, which itself is considerably more powerful than 2015 Jund.
The fear about Twin is perpetuated by myths and misinformation, as well as comparisons to decks that are orders of magnitude weaker than the current metagame. Or assumptions made by people who have never played with or against the deck (not saying you, but many on facebook, twitter, and reddit have demonstrated as much, such as "How does Spellskite even stop the combo!" and "Sudden Shock is the only way to beat a Pestermite with Twin on it!").
Look you don't have to convince me. Unban it or let it rot forever on the banlist. I honestly don't care and can live with either.
But I personally value facts and data over assumptions and guesses which brings us the point about you complaining about myths and misinformation. You actually do the same thing and as ktkenshinx pointed out the Thoughtseize/Abrupt Decay deck only had a 50/50 matchup against Twin. Something that you claimed as a bad matchup.
People like you should stop underselling the deck. It only hurts your credibility. People are not stupid and it's easy see through an obvious agenda.
If you are too biased to do that then you will never have an actual discussion on here or anywhere else that leads to anything.
I'm failing to see what redundant combo pieces you're referring to? Thoughtsieze routinely wrecked Twin decks. Also, Abrupt Decay is a card people seem to have forgotten about...
Again, I'm all for measured Twin unban arguments. But please stop stating/suggesting that TS/Decay was a significant issue for Twin. Twin was 50/50 against both Jund and Abzan in 2015.
Is 50% not a fair target? I mean...what was GW's % against Twin? A touch worse than 50% I would say.
Not really when those were supposed to be your "bad" matchups.
Myself and a VERY large group of people want to play cards that were favorites for us from standards past. Desiring for the format to at least be non-hostile to that isn't outrageous.
And I ask you too. How should that work?
Would you play with Gatekeeper Gargoyle and Deadly Visit in current Standard because you like those cards?
Probably not because those cards are bad compared to what else is in Standard.
You can play with any card in Modern that is your favorite. Nobody is stopping you from doing that. There are many people out there doing just that and they have fun doing it but it's honestly quite naive to think that you also get to have real success with that. Some cards will simply be better than others. That's just how it is and it's true for every single format in existence. From Limited to Vintage.
What you are asking for is impossible in anything but kitchen table Magic.
I like how we went from "midrange creature decks completely suck vs terminus" to "salty jund players wanting their deck to be the best again".
Newsflash: Wanting Midrange to be able to compete in Modern does not equate to wanting Midrange to be the best archetype.
And how would that work?
Modern is a non-rotating format. Have you looked at the other non-rotating formats? There isn't much Midrange around in them. Can you play something like Jund /Naya/Abzan etc. in Legacy? Of course. It is actually a good idea? No, it isn't.
I have made a big post about Midrange in this thread quite a while ago and also made a separate thread about it so I don't want to repeat everything.
In the end Midrange is a jack of all trades, master of none archetype. It trades power for adaptability and versatility. It does multiple things but nothing really well. That's fine in Standard because the power level isn't that high to begin with and it was also fine in Modern when it was younger. But as the format grows older it grows more powerful and that's where the problem lies. Every other archetype absolutely knows what it wants to do and is focused on that and if they get to do it that will always trump everything a Midrange deck is capable of doing.
KCI clearly wasn't the deck to beat going into this tournament. That honor goes to Phoenix which was and still is everywhere and took the lions share of everyone's attention
If they don't ban at this point any further ban/unban talk should be stopped forever.
Though that will never happen. People won't stop until we are all either trying to win with Flying Men or everybody is casting Ancestral Recall off their Mox Sapphire.
There is no middle ground and a decision needs to be made about in which direction the format will go. Standard plus or Legacy lite. Continued bannings is clearly the tool of the Standard plus camp that will not stop until chaining Siege Rhinos becomes the best way to victory. Unbannings, reprints and new cards are the tools of the other camp and Im firmly in that one.
Modern already became a bit of a laughing stock in the past because you had to hope that your deck never does well because otherwise it gets banned. Confirming that dynamic is like tronix said irreparable damage to the format and the trust in it.
So what would be next? We saw Phoenix decks have tons of explosive turns. Guess we ban that too.
7 mana on turn 3? Banned.
Playing a bunch of creatures that buff each other? Banned.
Playing a black 1 mana 13/13 creature? Banned
Where do we draw the line here, eh?
Right nobody can answer that because if I would ask 10 people I would get 12 different responses or something like that. "Just ban everything I personally don't like."
But there is one party who can answer this and those are the creators of the game. And I hope that they stop taking the easy way out by making announcements that invalidate entire decks and then sit on their hands the rest of the time.
This is after all no Treasure Cruise or Eldrazi era. It can be dealt with in a different way.
The way I see it why would anyone want fast mana?
The only reason to want that is to do broken plays and you can't really argue that's a desperate need in Modern.
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Modern: UW Control
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Yes, I do.
I mean let's turn this around. Krark-Clan Ironworks is banned. Now what?
Then the format is suddenly fine? UW/x, BG/x, Humans, Spirits, Burn, Dredge, Tron, Titan, Scales, GDS, Storm, Hollow One, etc. all aren't going anywhere.
It's one thing to look at numbers absolutely objectively and say this might be better than others. It could be a problem.
It's another one when it becomes about personal enjoyment. When I play the game I certainly don't think "man those few KCI decks that I never face are way too good and ruin my fun". That's not how it works.
If anybody claims that a single deck that doesn't even has a high metashare is the only reason they are not enjoying a format and think it's not fine then they are only fooling themselves. KCI hasn't even shown to be a deck that suppresses certain kind of strategies. Decks like Phoenix on the other hand have definitely shown to annihilate certain kind of strategies. So you can ban KCI and it will do absolutely nothing because the format will be just as it is now just without KCI.
What an outstanding job! Well done. You have done something absolutely inconsequential instead of powering up other things via unbans.
If that line of action makes someone personally happy then whatever. I would only shake my head and shrug my shoulders in the face of it.
I wouldn't be mad about it.
Sure it would be time to finally unleash Stoneforge Mystic after her partner-in-crime Jace, The Mind Sculptor was already released but that's also pretty much it. I mean I also would be for unbanning Preordain but I guess with Phoenix being the new hot thing I guess we can forget about that. Thanks Arclight Phoenix
I don't support any bans currently so there is nothing on that front.
Some interesting things in there but it shows that nobody should take this as the absolute gospel. The data is incomplete and so should be paired with something else to draw conclusions from it.
For example in this it shows that Spirits has done absolutely terrible against KCI but in ktkenshinxs analysis Spirits does actually pretty decent against KCI. So it's easy to draw wrong conclusions just based on this. If I take this and compare it with ktkenshinxs data though a few things can become clear though.
Spirits indeed doesn't do well against Phoenix. As a matter of fact Phoenix does decent against all decks that rely on heavy board presence to win the game. Bolts for days and Thing in the Ice make sure of that. Against decks that don't do that things are looking not as hot though.
GDS is interesting because in ktkenshinxs data it's not well represented and by the data that is there it looks not so good. Hard to draw conclusions here based on that. Pairing this with my personal opinion though I would at least say that GDS doesn't have a favorable matchup against Phoenix. I think that the matchup is even and very skill dependent. In the last SCG Open Top 8 both GDS players quickly lost 0-2 against their Phoenix opponents.
Misevaluating how much life you can safely pay can be punished quickly and harshly by the Phoenix deck and there is also the fact that GDS is ill-equipped to handle all the angles of attack. Destroy removal is notoriously bad against a flying creature with haste that returns from the graveyard and the premier spell of choice for that is Fatal Push which in turn needs Revolt to even be able to hit a Phoenix. Something that will not the case every single time. Stubborn Denial also isn't at its best in the matchup because both Arclight Phoenix and Thing in the Ice don't actually care if a spell resolves or not. They only care about casting them so if they have a mixture of their 1 mana cantrips and bolts it's trivial to bring back Phoenixes or transform a Thing and Denial won't change that. Speaking of Thing I wouldn't say it's at its best in the GDS matchup but the text is still relevant. Gurmag Angler getting bounced is very bad news and 7 power also means you might not be able to even afford a single hit from it.
I know Phoenix players like Ross Merriam actually say to not bring in graveyard hate against them and I think that's right for decks like UW/x or GB/x which already have maindeck answers to stop getting grinded out by Phoenixes. In GDS you probably really want those Leyline of the Void or Surgical Extractions though to stop that angle of attack. But Phoenix players are also wising up and bring in their own Extractions to counter opposing ones. Something to keep in mind probably.
It's funny you say that because I too think there is some hive mind thinking among certain Modern players. I don't want to paint anyone in a bad light here. Reid Duke for example is a way better and more experienced player than me and in many videos of his there is a theme where he states that being proactive is a trait he values and thinks is better. In the last SCG Open he dropped 5-3 with Abzan. Two of his losses were on camera and both times it was against a UW/x player and he lost them pretty convincingly to be honest. Even the commentators said that.
I also remember a watching a Youtube video of a GDS players who said at the beginning that he thinks he has a good matchup against UW. He lost the match 0-2 after that.
Let's make one thing clear. UW Control is an objectively powerful deck. The numbers are there to prove it. Personal opinion doesn't play a role in that. Even the "fair deck killer" Tron doesn't have an auto win against UW because that is not how things work.
Will the deck ever rule the meta? Probably not unless we get stuff like Sensei's Divining Top, Brainstorm, Ponder to unlock the full potential of the Miracle spells and Counterbalance of course or we get some other new toys to play with. But here is the thing everybody should keep in mind. Control by its very nature doesn't appeal to everyone which means it will always have a lower share than it objectively should have.
In RTR-Theros Standard Sphinx's Revelation Control was the objectively most powerful deck in the format and yet Mono-Black Devotion was still played in higher numbers despite of that. There are tons of people who just love to smash with creatures and that is OK. That's just how it is and nobody will be able to change that.
But Control will always be there and it will punish decks and people who don't respect it. Now more then ever in the entire history of Modern. Because Jace, The Mind Sculptor, Teferi, Hero of Dominaria and Azcanta, The Sunken Ruin aren't screwing around. They can put games away quickly and make it nigh unwinnable for the opponent. A trait that Control didn't really have before them in Modern but it is here now and it is there to stay.
As always you never disappoint.
Something interesting things in the matchup section that surprised me or reaffirmed my feelings.
For example Jeskai having that poor of a Burn matchup in this data set surprised me. I mean that's one of the few matchups where Lightning Helix can truly shine.
UW pulling way ahead of Jeskai on the other hand isn't surprising. I already said it before but the sacrifices you make in Jeskai are questionable IMO. The difference in the Tron matchup being the best example of it and it's not like UW actually has trouble with heavy creature decks as this shows. I mean Terminus is there for a reason. Spirits is an exception but then Jeskai is still only dead even against it in this data set so yeah whatever.
Funnily enough this even shows why the last GP Top 8 probably turned out the way it did. Spirits does pretty good against KCI but it in turn gets picked apart by the Phoenix decks and indeed there was no Spirits in the Top 16 while 4 Phoenix decks were so KCI got one of it's bad matchups cleaned away all the way to the top. How convenient.
What's the takeaway of that? Blame Arclight Phoenix for everything bad
Poor Jeskai. Not beating anything
But then Im personally not a fan of sacrificing late-game power and the best sweeper in the format for a bunch of burn spells.
I would say that it already is that way but obviously that requires an exact definition to actually measure things. If we look at tournament results we often see at least some number of Midrange decks in them. Maybe they haven't won, maybe they didn't even make top 8 but they were in the upper echelons of a tournament. There is also the issue of defining the Death's Shadow decks because if you define them as Midrange as it is on this site for example then things look even better.
I assume that is not good enough for you so how much more should it be in your opinion?
Look you don't have to convince me. Unban it or let it rot forever on the banlist. I honestly don't care and can live with either.
But I personally value facts and data over assumptions and guesses which brings us the point about you complaining about myths and misinformation. You actually do the same thing and as ktkenshinx pointed out the Thoughtseize/Abrupt Decay deck only had a 50/50 matchup against Twin. Something that you claimed as a bad matchup.
People like you should stop underselling the deck. It only hurts your credibility. People are not stupid and it's easy see through an obvious agenda.
If you are too biased to do that then you will never have an actual discussion on here or anywhere else that leads to anything.
Just my 2 cents.
Nobody actually knows that and there is good chance nobody ever will.
Not really when those were supposed to be your "bad" matchups.
And I ask you too. How should that work?
Would you play with Gatekeeper Gargoyle and Deadly Visit in current Standard because you like those cards?
Probably not because those cards are bad compared to what else is in Standard.
You can play with any card in Modern that is your favorite. Nobody is stopping you from doing that. There are many people out there doing just that and they have fun doing it but it's honestly quite naive to think that you also get to have real success with that. Some cards will simply be better than others. That's just how it is and it's true for every single format in existence. From Limited to Vintage.
What you are asking for is impossible in anything but kitchen table Magic.
And how would that work?
Modern is a non-rotating format. Have you looked at the other non-rotating formats? There isn't much Midrange around in them. Can you play something like Jund /Naya/Abzan etc. in Legacy? Of course. It is actually a good idea? No, it isn't.
I have made a big post about Midrange in this thread quite a while ago and also made a separate thread about it so I don't want to repeat everything.
In the end Midrange is a jack of all trades, master of none archetype. It trades power for adaptability and versatility. It does multiple things but nothing really well. That's fine in Standard because the power level isn't that high to begin with and it was also fine in Modern when it was younger. But as the format grows older it grows more powerful and that's where the problem lies. Every other archetype absolutely knows what it wants to do and is focused on that and if they get to do it that will always trump everything a Midrange deck is capable of doing.
Though that will never happen. People won't stop until we are all either trying to win with Flying Men or everybody is casting Ancestral Recall off their Mox Sapphire.
There is no middle ground and a decision needs to be made about in which direction the format will go. Standard plus or Legacy lite. Continued bannings is clearly the tool of the Standard plus camp that will not stop until chaining Siege Rhinos becomes the best way to victory. Unbannings, reprints and new cards are the tools of the other camp and Im firmly in that one.
Modern already became a bit of a laughing stock in the past because you had to hope that your deck never does well because otherwise it gets banned. Confirming that dynamic is like tronix said irreparable damage to the format and the trust in it.
So what would be next? We saw Phoenix decks have tons of explosive turns. Guess we ban that too.
7 mana on turn 3? Banned.
Playing a bunch of creatures that buff each other? Banned.
Playing a black 1 mana 13/13 creature? Banned
Where do we draw the line here, eh?
Right nobody can answer that because if I would ask 10 people I would get 12 different responses or something like that. "Just ban everything I personally don't like."
But there is one party who can answer this and those are the creators of the game. And I hope that they stop taking the easy way out by making announcements that invalidate entire decks and then sit on their hands the rest of the time.
This is after all no Treasure Cruise or Eldrazi era. It can be dealt with in a different way.
The only reason to want that is to do broken plays and you can't really argue that's a desperate need in Modern.