It depends on the Stax deck too I suppose. If the deck if playing various types of stax cards where each card is pissing off a different player, that seems somewhat unpolitical to me.
I think what I'm looking for is a much more casual politics deck where I get to use fun stuff like Diaochan, Artful Beauty but you don't see her at the competitive scene. That said, you might see something like Pestilence which has political applications. Maybe Diaochan is just bad lol.
Would you say Grand Arbiter Augustine is a good choice for a politics general? Cause my buddy tried and he never won a single game due to the mass hate lol. Maybe he just wasn't good at convincing the rest of us.
My issue is that the Stax deck is probably designed to break parity with the effect, so on one hand it looks like a thing for you in the moment, until later they play the thing that breaks parity which is usually around the time I start kicking myself. But I do kinda see your point. Ill take back what I said about competitve decos never playing politics. Ill just say that the types of politics they play seems different to more casual play
Can you give me an example of how that would go down? Cause I'm not sure I'd go for a deal that hurts me for multiple turns. I understand making a deal to let me allow your board wipe to resolve because it will set the other 2 back further than me, but thats just a 1 turn thing that im probably not going to regret down the road. Idk if I'd let a Land Equilibrium resolve even if it looks like I will benefit in the moment cause its gonna keep paying dividends and it might cost me the game later. I'd probably regret it.
Imo, its unpolitocal because it pisses everyone off making you target number 1. When no one gets to play magic except the stax player, usually people don't want to team up with them. Thats been my experience at least. Anytime someone brings something like a Grand Arbiter Augustin deck to the table, they die first if thay can't keep everyone down before assembling a combo
I guess I could be wrong on politics in competitive edh but it seems to me that Stax decks which do quite well competitively are very anti-political and there isn't a lot of need for politics if your goal is to assemble an infinite combo asap. But the more casual you get the more you run into situations where you have an 8/8 and your trying to decide which person to slam it into.
In general I think that pillowfort cards are not very good because they don't help you start winning and they make losing take longer. There's not a really good reason to play them if you want to maximize your chances to win, but if you just like playing with those sorts of cards or they fit a theme, by all means play with them.
I agree they aren't very good. Competitive decks have no interest in playing them but then again competitve decks dont play politics period. Idk if I agree with your reasoning though. There are planty of very good cards that don't help you start winning and just make losing take longer, that description fits virtually all disruption that isn't on a stick or had another ability. Every board wipe, every piece of removal, every counterspell etc.
That's fair. I guess it depends on the decks your playign against. If I'm playing against voltron or Xenagod they're gonna be attacking someone, its just a question of who. Do you attack the guy with a No Mercy out, or the guy with the 6/6 flyer. Probably the latter. But against a deck more docileor thats playing with direect damage it may not do anything. Are you against playing Ghostly Prison too?
I think No Mercy is a trap in commander, a format full of ETB value creatures that blow up permanents all the time. No Mercy doesn't advance a plan so much as it prolongs games. All it takes is one Acidic Slime and your opponents have free reign to beat your face in. I think in most cases what you want in a politics deck is to be able to "reward" your opponents for spending their resources (so you needn't spend yours) furthering your goals instead of threatening to spend your resources wasting theirs if they actively do things you don't want them to do. This is why Phelddagrif fits this role well, because it allows you to grant resources to your opponents at will. Unfortunately, there aren't really any legendary creatures with Black in their color identity that fit this description (Triad of Fates is too slow and conditional to recommend imo)
I personally disagree but I'm not a political expert by any means. You seem to be making the classic "dies to doomblade" argument. No Mercy is just one political card, we should be playing lots of other political cards too. It also depends on how your opponents theat assess, using resources to remove a No Mercy that isn't actively messing with their permanents nor advancing a plan seems kinda silly to me. Then again, some people don't like feeling manipulated and may destroy it anyway.
Does anybody have any experience playing a Pharika politics deck? How does it work? I assume you play a high creature count delve deck? The effect seems great but the colours don't seem ideal
I'm kinda confused by the title. Group hug and politics seem to be complete opposites of each other. Politics is getting the other players to do what you want. Group hug is giving everyone enough resources to do whatever they want to do, at which point they've no incentive to help you.
For me, Tasigur, the Golden Fang is the best political commander all round and, as a bonus, he is indeed in black. A control based Tasigur deck can play politics fantastically, as you almost always have a clear and reliable incentive to get people to help you - if someone plays a threat, someone else will be willing to give you an answer back from the yard. There's no relying on making promises or trusting people, or actually helping them out. It's just straight up making what you want to happen also be in their interest.
As for Queen Marchesa (long may she reign), she's not really a political commander in my books. She's basically a Phyrexian Arena in the command zone. Which is good, certainly, but she's there to get you extra cards, not play politics. You can certainly put political cards in there (such as lots of removal and other interaction), but there's nothing particularly political about her.
I've never actually played group hug so I just kind of assumed that if you give people free stuff that they would assess your threat lower than other players but I see now how thats fallacious.
The best political black card is probably No Mercy; Dread is the creature version.
I disagree. With No Mercy, they still get the hit in. Or I could show them the Murder in my hand and tell them their valuable creature will die before even getting in for damage if it attacks me. That's far more like politics.
I think it is political depending on the situation. If your opponent wants to get some chip damage in with a 5/5 flyer and they have the option to choose between me and another player with no flying blockers, they would be smart to attack the player that doesn't have No Mercy in play. Even then if the No Mercy player is the only player without blockers I think I might just prefer to have my 5/5 flyer attack into another player's 1/1 flyer as opposed to dealing 5 and dying.
@Queen Marchesa Playere. Don't you find her kind of underwhelming after the first cast? All she does is make a 1/1 per turn. That seems like horrid value to me.
I've played Seizan, Perverter of Truth for years now as a mono-B politics deck. He draws people cards so they like him until everyone is at half their starting life and being punished for drawing cards. He's kinda like a mono-B Nekusar.
I played Kaervek for awhile and he's a great politics / chaos / retaliation commander if you want to go BR.
Hmm, maybe I should try Kaervek after all. I assumed that like Vial Smasher, people wouldn't fall for it and assess his threat highly. But maybe his political applications make people look the other way.
I might just have to move out of my comfort zone and play nonblack if I want to do this right. I'm not really feeling the flying hippo but I might have to consider something like Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis. If I can't play black I'd at least like to play my second fav colour Red. Any red reccomendations?
Edit: I might try Mathas. How much worse is he do you guys think compared to K&T or Zedru
Well, my first thought is that Phelddagrif is, and shall probably always be, the best political commander in the format. big ol' primer in sig. /plug
But if you're committed to black, there are still plenty of decent options.
Queen Marchesa is an interesting one. I've been playing with her a bit. She mostly creates scenarios where your opponents are motivated to attack each other (to get the monarch) but not attack you (because you have a bunch of deathtouch blockers). In practice, it's a bit unreliable against evasion, but that's at least the theory. You can help make up for that weakness with the other cards in the deck.
Ludevic is trash. For one thing, if an opponent cracks a fetch, they draw a card. Even if they send all their attackers at your face. Even if they target you with all their removal. If they don't have fetches, they can send one flying token at an opponent for the same result. It's extremely weakly political imo. also vial smasher triggering on enemy turns will help your enemy draw a card...that can occasionally be good but it's pretty niche.
Vial smasher is also really horrible politically, imo. Random damage is *kind of* better, but much like purphoros he represents a threat to the entire table and should draw hate. It also could easily kill someone you don't need, or want, to kill, while the more threatening player lives to kill you. There's a reason threat assessment is an important part of the game, especially a political game. Randomness is antithetical to that.
As far as good political commanders:
Athreos, god of passage is an interesting one. You can use him both as punishment for removing your stuff by targeting them and forcing them to either lose 3 or negate their own removal, or as a way for others to do you political favors by not paying the life. You can also, if you're feeling particularly dirty, go "infinite with assistance" by having someone let you infinite loop a free creature to a sac outlet to kill some common enemy. I've got a deck built around that premise in my sig.
Basically anything that goes well with removal is solid at politics. Token example being glissa, the traitor. Punish your enemies with removal and draw cards off baubles and stuff, plus she deters attacks like a boss. Toshiro Umezawa is similar in this regard. Lazav, Dimir Mastermind also synergizes with removal, in a more unique way. I like all three of these commanders a lot.
Mathas fiend seeker motivates opponents to remove what you target, and while you can't fully control the draw, you can stop at least one person from getting any.
Pharika, God of Affliction lets you create deadly blockers anywhere on the table, while also controlling graves, which can be both a benefit (don't attack me and you get a snake!) or a deterrent (if you attack me, I'll exile your genesis). Plus, real hard to interact with.
Teysa, Orzhov Scion + tokens can also work as a deterrent, threatening to exile targets in response to whatever you don't like.
Xantcha, Sleeper Agent is basically Mathas on crack - one person gets to suck it, everyone else gets cards. Haven't played much with her yet, so I don't have any strong opinions, but it's one to look at.
Saskia, the Unyielding is another "screw that guy commander". Biggest downside is that you can't change targets without blink/recast, which is kind of a problem in the rapidly-changing state of commander games. So this one is just decent. If you've got one problematic guy, it could be good.
Tasigur, the Golden Fang is a really cool political commander, from a different angle. I've got a version in my sig - basically the idea is that your opponents can help you counter major spells and remove major targets by giving you back what you want with tasigur. If I was rebuilding it, I'd have a lower density of answers, so your opponents decisions to help you aren't so forced.
Finally, Kaervek, the Merciless. Kaervek is freaking hilarious. Here are my rules for Kaervek:
If you cast a spell, you choose Kaervek's targets, unless...
-That target would screw me over
-The spell screws me over
-The game is, or will be, about to end.
Adding these rules turned Kaervek from an auto-kill to an amazing, board-controlling, responsibility-shirking, engine of mass destruction. It's probably one of the most fun decks I've created.
I hope that helps with your decision. Personally my top picks are probably Kaervek, Tasigur, and Glissa.
Firstly, tyvm for the detailed reply. Secondly, damn, I totally didn't see that people could hurt themselves to draw a card. You're right, that makes Ludevek trash. I appreciate your thoughts on the other commanders. I'll have to give this some thought. I def won't be picking any "screw that guy" commanders, that seems like a terrible social experience for "that guy" and I'm wanting more of a casual fun time for all deck.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
I think what I'm looking for is a much more casual politics deck where I get to use fun stuff like Diaochan, Artful Beauty but you don't see her at the competitive scene. That said, you might see something like Pestilence which has political applications. Maybe Diaochan is just bad lol.
Would you say Grand Arbiter Augustine is a good choice for a politics general? Cause my buddy tried and he never won a single game due to the mass hate lol. Maybe he just wasn't good at convincing the rest of us.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
I think it is political depending on the situation. If your opponent wants to get some chip damage in with a 5/5 flyer and they have the option to choose between me and another player with no flying blockers, they would be smart to attack the player that doesn't have No Mercy in play. Even then if the No Mercy player is the only player without blockers I think I might just prefer to have my 5/5 flyer attack into another player's 1/1 flyer as opposed to dealing 5 and dying.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Hmm, maybe I should try Kaervek after all. I assumed that like Vial Smasher, people wouldn't fall for it and assess his threat highly. But maybe his political applications make people look the other way.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Edit: I might try Mathas. How much worse is he do you guys think compared to K&T or Zedru
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Firstly, tyvm for the detailed reply. Secondly, damn, I totally didn't see that people could hurt themselves to draw a card. You're right, that makes Ludevek trash. I appreciate your thoughts on the other commanders. I'll have to give this some thought. I def won't be picking any "screw that guy" commanders, that seems like a terrible social experience for "that guy" and I'm wanting more of a casual fun time for all deck.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)