I’m not sure if it would solve White’s issues, but since the issue of White staying true to color pie has come up I find it disappointing that White’s most powerful piece of the color pie is poorly defended. I am referring to “setting rules.”
Stranglehold is a card that seems like it should be White to me. The first clause is clearly White. I assume the second clause is what made it Red since extra turns are a Blue effect and Red is an enemy color to Blue, but I would’ve preferred a card like this be White based on definining rules for other players and forcing them to “play fair.”
Similarly, I don’t understand the color choice for Leovold, Emissary of Trest. Drawing cards can always be justified as Blue, though basing it on targeting your permanents feels more Green. Either way, the one card per turn is very clearly a White thing and Black seems to have no relation to these abilities at all. Would the card have been banned if it had been WU or GW instead of the three most powerful colors in the format? (P.S. also not sure why Muldrotha, the Gravetide has Blue)
It needs to say that it does not return cards named Seal of Faith’s Reward. Right now it is really broken. I think it would also be more elegant to return eot instead of that sac with no effect. (i.e. you make it sac: at end of turn, return all permanent cards not named Seal of Faith’s Reward put into gy from battlefield this turn - maybe rewritten to use until end of turn)
Agreed on all counts. I definitely threw out the idea as I woke up in the morning and didn’t think about it returning itself. That’s an obvious fail on my part. I also like your EOT idea. It makes it so you can’t ambush someone with instant-speed permanents in response to something, which wouldn’t feel very white. The protection is the important part and EOT does that nicely.
I still believe Faith’s Reward is a good effect for white that could be repurposed in a more Commander-friendly way. Keeping up that mana turn after turn is too high a price for wipe protection.
Seal of Faith’s Reward 3W
Enchantment
0: Sacrifice ~.
When ~ leaves the battlefield, return to the battlefield all permanent cards in your graveyard and exile that left the battlefield this turn.
This should provide board wipe protection that includes exile effects and effects which remove the enchantment itself.
I think it’s honestly ok to limit white’s card draw in EDH because colorless options are so abundant (as ISBPathfinder said).
No white spell would ever be more efficient than Mind’s Eye, Trading Post, Staff of Nin or the Immortal Sun (much less Memory Jar), so why bother? In a way, this works out perfectly as it means white can get these effects at the cost of being vulnerable to artifact destruction. That is not such a bad trade off.
I don't know that we can really make Balance a card again without it costing at least 5+ mana in all reality. Even if you brought up the cost, I think there would still be a lot of reasons as to why it wouldn't get printed. They recently printed Magus of the Balance but he needs 5 mana to activate as well as tapping which adds so many additional hoops to it that I think its more than fair. You really can't go about printing balance effects without a very heavy nerf to their efficiency or you will just end up immediately needing to ban the card.
Maybe I'm naive, but I feel like Balance is a little overly-demonized. Is it really that much worse than Armageddon or Apocalypse (as an effect; I do think it's too cheap)? It doesn't hit mana rocks and I like balancing hand size as white's answer to falling behind in card draw.
Lin-Sivvi, Veteran Commander - Same as Defiant Hero but abilities reference Humans instead of Rebels and she has +1 power or toughness. She’d be really abusable only as a commander, where monowhite again limits the her scope while bringing some oomph to the color.
As long as it would be printed so only vintage / legacy / commander can play it I guess I wouldn't complain too much but to be honest its not really very flavorful to add that functionality to humans.
If flavor is the only objection, I don't see a problem. The original is a Human Rebel. My idea was that an older, wiser Lin-Sivvi could bring her tactical skills to a different force, thus broadening the creature type but still keeping it related to her. I think Rebels are pretty firmly a dead-end that's unlikely to see major support in the future, while there will always be new humans getting printed.
It would probably still need work but given that in commander, cards in the 99 are not very stable to be up so I would argue that tagging that onto a commander that is otherwise interesting in some other way would be the way to go.
If you are looking for Bribery protection the answer is player hexproof ie Leyline of Sanctity. Honestly though..... who targets a mono white player as the bribery target?
Putting it on a Legend is a cool idea. The Bribery thing had nothing to do with the intent; it was just an example of a possible side effect. This effect would cause you to get wrecked by Wheels though, so it clearly needs work. I just like the idea of forcing combat interaction as a white thing.
Yeah, I thought there was one but couldn’t remember it. Thanks!
enchantment would not get played (At least not by me or anyone else who isn't building toward a specific meta).
White sets rules, so I like the idea of forcing someone to interact with you in the combat step. And this also makes white’s reliance on creatures less of a liability. I’m sure there’s a better way to do it, but forcing people to attack you in combat seems like an interesting thing to give white.
Lin Sivvi would be sweet but preeeetty dangerous. Would be a very strong card in multicolor white decks, though, not just as a commander. Idk why 1 stat point would make any difference whatsoever.
The +1 stat is just because I think she’s under-statted by modern design standards.
Balance that costs WWW - We know the big problem with this spell is the cost, since Magus is legal. This would be very slow outside monowhite and Balance is probably fine in monowhite.
Lin-Sivvi, Veteran Commander - Same as Defiant Hero but abilities reference Humans instead of Rebels and she has +1 power or toughness. She’d be really abusable only as a commander, where monowhite again limits the her scope while bringing some oomph to the color.
An enchantment that reads, “Spells and abilities opponents control cannot change your life total or move cards from your library to any other zone.” Not sure what it should cost, but the idea is that it forces opponents to fight you with creatures (“fight fair”). There would be ways around it (including removing the enchantment itself), but it would be a roadblock to Exsanguinate or mill wincons and would have occasional interesting interactions like immunity to Bribery.
Obviously cards like these would be printed in Commander products, as they’d be unsuitable for standard (although they could print that enchantment in standard as a terrible rare).
Stranglehold is a card that seems like it should be White to me. The first clause is clearly White. I assume the second clause is what made it Red since extra turns are a Blue effect and Red is an enemy color to Blue, but I would’ve preferred a card like this be White based on definining rules for other players and forcing them to “play fair.”
Similarly, I don’t understand the color choice for Leovold, Emissary of Trest. Drawing cards can always be justified as Blue, though basing it on targeting your permanents feels more Green. Either way, the one card per turn is very clearly a White thing and Black seems to have no relation to these abilities at all. Would the card have been banned if it had been WU or GW instead of the three most powerful colors in the format? (P.S. also not sure why Muldrotha, the Gravetide has Blue)
Agreed on all counts. I definitely threw out the idea as I woke up in the morning and didn’t think about it returning itself. That’s an obvious fail on my part. I also like your EOT idea. It makes it so you can’t ambush someone with instant-speed permanents in response to something, which wouldn’t feel very white. The protection is the important part and EOT does that nicely.
3W
Enchantment
0: Sacrifice ~.
When ~ leaves the battlefield, return to the battlefield all permanent cards in your graveyard and exile that left the battlefield this turn.
This should provide board wipe protection that includes exile effects and effects which remove the enchantment itself.
No white spell would ever be more efficient than Mind’s Eye, Trading Post, Staff of Nin or the Immortal Sun (much less Memory Jar), so why bother? In a way, this works out perfectly as it means white can get these effects at the cost of being vulnerable to artifact destruction. That is not such a bad trade off.
I also agree with darrenhabib that more Spirit of the Labyrinth effects would be good.
Maybe I'm naive, but I feel like Balance is a little overly-demonized. Is it really that much worse than Armageddon or Apocalypse (as an effect; I do think it's too cheap)? It doesn't hit mana rocks and I like balancing hand size as white's answer to falling behind in card draw.
If flavor is the only objection, I don't see a problem. The original is a Human Rebel. My idea was that an older, wiser Lin-Sivvi could bring her tactical skills to a different force, thus broadening the creature type but still keeping it related to her. I think Rebels are pretty firmly a dead-end that's unlikely to see major support in the future, while there will always be new humans getting printed.
Putting it on a Legend is a cool idea. The Bribery thing had nothing to do with the intent; it was just an example of a possible side effect. This effect would cause you to get wrecked by Wheels though, so it clearly needs work. I just like the idea of forcing combat interaction as a white thing.
First draft ideas and whatnot.
Yeah, I thought there was one but couldn’t remember it. Thanks!
White sets rules, so I like the idea of forcing someone to interact with you in the combat step. And this also makes white’s reliance on creatures less of a liability. I’m sure there’s a better way to do it, but forcing people to attack you in combat seems like an interesting thing to give white.
The +1 stat is just because I think she’s under-statted by modern design standards.
Balance that costs WWW - We know the big problem with this spell is the cost, since Magus is legal. This would be very slow outside monowhite and Balance is probably fine in monowhite.
Lin-Sivvi, Veteran Commander - Same as Defiant Hero but abilities reference Humans instead of Rebels and she has +1 power or toughness. She’d be really abusable only as a commander, where monowhite again limits the her scope while bringing some oomph to the color.
An enchantment that reads, “Spells and abilities opponents control cannot change your life total or move cards from your library to any other zone.” Not sure what it should cost, but the idea is that it forces opponents to fight you with creatures (“fight fair”). There would be ways around it (including removing the enchantment itself), but it would be a roadblock to Exsanguinate or mill wincons and would have occasional interesting interactions like immunity to Bribery.
Obviously cards like these would be printed in Commander products, as they’d be unsuitable for standard (although they could print that enchantment in standard as a terrible rare).
A one-sided Second Sunrise would also be nice.