Incidentally, there's a rule in the general rules that says no cryptic claims. Is that just never enforced?
Lol. Yeah, my claim was cryptic, but as Bur explained, it wasn't a cryptoclaim. You can breadcrumb (or outright claim, as long as you paraphrase) all you want.
So first off, I had fun this game, successfully didn't lurk (two games in a row!), felt like I played well, and thought the flavor and modding were excellent. Thanks, Wuffles!
I do feel like the balance was pretty strongly town-sided. At the end I was pretty sure that either Rez or Dan were scum because of the similarity of their abilities, and although I decided Rez was more likely, we had enough leeway that if we had mislynched Rez, Dan would have been next on the chopping block.
@Wuffles: Especially given Grape's role, I would not have felt like you would have been out of line to, end of D1, indicate that you didn't realize that the site norm was role-reveal, apologize, and clarify that full roles wouldn't be revealed. I don't know that I would have been as likely to sign up for a no-reveal game, but as it was, I expected that Grape's role highlighting that the target was non-mafia was a balancing element. As the other mafia roles were revealed, it became obvious that that was NOT the case.
@Axel: This is obviously a difference of opinion, so I won't argue too strenuously or expect a rebuttal/discussion, but I feel like a good innovative scum role lends itself to town confusion and obfuscation at every turn, including when that role gets killed/revealed. So the benefit in letting that scum role choose ANY player, not just town, would be in the wifom that would flow upon the scum role's death. I disagree that the right play in that case is always to choose a scumbuddy, as the scum have no idea what the distribution of types among the town are, so it's still nearly random. Targeting a town buys minor town pants. (I realize that if you let a buddy choose, they can choose among the types in the scumpool, which paints town pants in other ways, but that's the point: that the scum had to choose someone to make that call and town who are alive are left to ponder that decision.)
@Grape: You played well. I doubted my read on you several times, and in the end it was a gut call. Happy that I was right, but then I felt like Dan was town, so maybe I just got lucky. EDIT: Oh, and I figured you thought I was Time Vault or Vault of Whispers from your "vault of gobbledygook" comment, but I wasn't going to clarify D1. Thanks for trying to play my silly reindeer games.
As for my first post...call it bad if you want, but I had rationale behind it that I could explain if forced to during a claim, so I feel like it was ok. Keep in mind that I thought I was a role enabler, as in there were roles (probably 1-3 among the town and 1 among the scum) that needed mana to be able to use their ability, possibly some that specifically needed blue mana. I also realized that I had a mild investigative role since if I targeted a scum artifact and they got two mana and then later claimed non-artifact, I would catch them in a lie (so NOT just a useless fruit vendor/baker, thank you very much!). With that in mind, I wanted to post something to let those roles that needed mana know that I could provide. So I posted a want ad:
Quote from Cantripmancer »
SOL seeking octogenarians or mature alpha gorillas for collaboration.
Must have pure motives and love grandfather clocks.
Respond here; I'll find you in your dreams.
Chromatics may apply, but YMMV.
SOL = Single overpowered land, but also was a nod to Sol Ring, to put people in the mind of mana generation. "Seeking octogenarians or mature alpha gorillas" was supposed to be a hint that I wanted to find artifacts (silver hair = silver-bordered). "Must have pure motives" was just a "I want to help town" throwaway to make it sound more like your traditional want ad. "Love grandfather clocks" was a reference to Tolarian Academy's flavor text. "Respond here; I'll find you in your dreams" is just "make yourselves known and I'll target you at Night". "Chromatics (color cards) may apply" (I can give mana to anyone), "but YMMV" (it's not going to be as productive as if I target an artifact). I realized after the fact that I completely failed to make any reference to blue (fail!), but also figured it wasn't that big a difference. As it turns out, I was just a silly fruit vendor, so no one was courting my mana, so my efforts were mostly just comical.
On top of my main idea, I figured it might spur some discussion (mostly fail, but thanks for trying Highroller and Grape). In a back corner of my mind, I wondered if scum would be more likely to try to figure the puzzle out than town. Not sure if that was actually the case or if it was just Grape being a good curious player in general.
@Terry: On a scale of 1-10, with 1 being RVS and 10 being "got a cop check can't vote this guy hard enough", how serious was your vote on Kami in 38?
118 has a lot of confidence, but as I said before, confidence is NAI for Terry, just comes with the territory. Slight scum ping for justification of his RVS vote. I agreed with his suspicions of Rez, but didn't think the suspicion on Kami was justified. I originally liked the first line of 121, but going back and reading page 2, it feels like Terry is really stretching to connect the idea that Grape wants Terry to become invested in the game from Grape's posts. However, his confusion about Grape in 161 felt genuine. I'm not sure what to make of his mixing Grape and Highroller (I think) up in 168.
Huh. Tinfoil time. I was pretty confused by Highroller's 175 where he calls Terry a troll and loose cannon, because I was seeing a lot of calm, rational posting from Terry. It really struck me as odd. But then Terry comes in with his 178 and is sorta crazy and out of control and yelling and stuff. Possibility that the two of them are buddies and Highroller specifically posted that to "rile" Terry up? Stil not sure where Highroller saw the trolling/loose cannon. /tinfoil
@Highroller: What specifically did you see as trolling/loose cannoning from Terry prior to 175?
I don't like the mechanics discussion at the start of 209. Feels like bad setup gaming. I generally like the rest of the post, with quite a bit of mindmeld on his take on page 1 events. Also feels like town who didn't get people rereading like he asked, so he decided to spell things out. Not sure that scum!Terry feels the need to do that. I feel less good about his summary of page 2 in 226, mostly because I think he's way off-base with regard to Highroller.
After that there's a long string of snarky and/or mostly contentless posts. 359 was a handwave of Az's case. While I don't think Az's case was very persuasive, I do think there were some valid perspectives there, and I don't think Terry addressed any of them. I feel like the indignation in 380 is real, but indignation over sheeped votes doesn't necessarily come from town.
There are then...quite a lot of bicker posts that don't add a lot to the conversation. I don't like the passive aggressive attack on Grape in 389, but I don't feel like that's AI for Terry. I don't like his lack of good reasoning to vote Grape (393), then he questions some of the unvote responses to Grape's claim, and then 422 feels like a town post. I think Terry really believes this and is frustrated by the idea that a claim that sounds believable gets a pass.
I like 424, although I guess it could come from scum, but I don't like the snarky attitude in 427. The use of the word "entertain" feels off. After that, a lot of the intentional trolling/references to trolling feel like frustrated town rather than angry scum.
I'm pretty much out of time. I feel like Terry has a mix of good and bad posts with a LOT of filler posts that don't really accomplish much. That said, I still feel like Grape's more likely to be scum. I know it'll look bad for me if Grape flips town and Terry flips scum, but...I just really FEEL like Grape is scum and Terry's town. I'm leaving my vote on Grape.
I believe deadline is in about 2.5 hours, and I very likely will not be on at that time. I will be able to check periodically for about the next hour, so if anyone wants to ask me questions or engage, do so soon. Bare minimum, please do not let a no lynch occur. I would very much like to go into D2 with a lynch to facilitate analysis.
Well I think that’s a legit slip. I just lost thunderdome with a slip in cops. They are real and I think vezo slipped that not only is grape town, but it implies he knows we are BOTH town. Do we just lynch grape anyways? I hope not. I hope it’s not me instead because that’s worse case right there.
...glad you explained that to me, because I never would have gotten there on my own. I...will be surprised if that's a legit slip. I could be wrong, I guess, but Vezok has just had a ton of town posts. Still not interested in lynching toDay.
@Terry: I'm pretty sure that Vezok's town. I will not join his wagon toDay. I will be VERY surprised if you can make that happen, and I'm a little concerned that you would choose to go after a player that's mostly town-read this close to deadline.
@Axelrod: I'm a little confused as to why Rezombied, who has made multiple posts but hasn't made an impression on you, ranks higher than GanDan, who has made several posts with reads, analysis, and original thought (even if his questions outweigh those reads/analysis/etc) (AND he has a valid reason to lurk). (As an aside, no matter how you intended the "kind of ditto" after my entry in your list, I choose to interpret it as you comparing my play to Azreal, which I 100% take as a high compliment and will treasure always...unless of course you're just scumbuttering me up.)
I'm not terribly impressed with your list, although it's a little bit spicy to put Az high and Iso low, imo. We have two competing wagons right now, and one of them is in your "no opinion to concerning" pile, but you eschew that option to go after lurkers. With the obligatory rationale of "I hate lurkers."
I really wish this had come about 24 hours earlier, as I suddenly really want to CFD onto you, but I don't feel like we have time for that. Working on rereading Terry as we speak.
@Az: Ok, fair. The part that made me less inclined to see it as townish was that he listed FOUR other players. It felt less like town conviction/willingness to trade and more like scum sowing connections.
Hey, Vezok, I know you think I'm scum so everything I say drips with poison distilled from the blood of sacrificed children, but what were your thoughts on my 553?
@Grape: Can you address my question about your 352? I'll repost it for easy reference:
Can you speak to your 352? Do you think Rez and Terry are buddies? If not, how does your mindset in that post make sense?
And on asking Highroller about why he made his choice, I feel like there was opportunity to do so before you came under significant scrutiny and certainly before you got to claim range, but I don't see any movement from you to do so. You say you didn't even think about it...that surprises me if you're town, as I think you're a good player, and when presented with a tool, town generally tend to start thinking how best to use that tool. I mean, I geeked out a little about my card, too, but then I started figuring out ways to maximize its effectiveness.
@Az: You quoted some of those Grape posts twice. For the ones that don't have any bolded sections, do you just feel like the whole post is towny? And yes, I noticed 270, but in the end, it's really just WIFOM, isn't it?
@Terry: I know your comment was intended rather tongue in cheek. I hope you see that my response was, too.
@Grape: As I intimated in #51, Vez's comment on my flavor claim made me raise an eyebrow ("Vez gets a town lean...but..."). I wasn't sure why he would post like I was seriously suggesting a flavor claim.
Can you speak to your 352? Do you think Rez and Terry are buddies? If not, how does your mindset in that post make sense?
With choosing Highroller, I'm just trying to put myself in town!you shoes. I know that's not an exact science of an exercise, but if I had a role that allowed another player to make that kind of choice, I'd want to target someone that I felt like I could read so that later, when their choice came to light, hopefully with some corroborating information (like one or two scum's card types), I'd be better equipped to figure out my target's possible choice motivations. That you'd choose someone who you had zero Mafia experience with seems odd to me. I'd also want to get that player's thoughts on what they were choosing (not specifics, but "I chose cards that I wanted good things to happen to" or "I chose cards that I felt would be less likely to be in the game" or somesuch) before I revealed what the choice did to help me gauge how they chose. This points, I feel, to the role being a scum role, as town wants to use it as a tool to help figure out their target (which is much more difficult to do when the target doesn't know what they're choosing), while scum is just happy messing with their target and gaining two card types to roleblock. I didn't see you trying to use it as a tool at all, so I think it's more likely you're scum.
I can see your point on it being restricted being more likely to be on town, I suppose. But the pre-game random nature I think points to scum (especially with no explanation of what the ability does). For example, if it's a town ability, you have an uninformed town who has to choose randomly among all other players. The recipient, without being told what the choice does, and with no way to find out or figure out before they make their choice, just chooses two card types. That feels like--at its base--just a randomization of an ability. If that's the case, why wouldn't Wuffles just give you a role that says "these two card types were randomly selected at the start of the game; if you target one of these card types with your ability, you roleblock that player"?
Conversely, if it's a scum ability, then all kinds of WIFOM and choices come into play. Before the game even begins, you have the opportunity to mess with a townie, possibly make yourself seem like a friend, someone who gave them a choice, someone who shares a secret with them. After you flip, unless your chosen target is obv!town, the town may mistakenly mislynch thinking you targeted scum, or if you targeted a buddy, maybe they give him town pants for being your target. The more I think about it, the more likely it seems that it's a scum role. I admit that I will sometimes fall into the modgaming/setupgaming trap, so by itself, I wouldn't see this alone as condemning, but in conjunction with the behavioral pings, I really think you're the best lynch for toDay.
50 has several elements that didn't feel right to me. The whole "I feel insulted and complimented" part is vague, he focuses on my being scum for suggesting a flavor claim in another game, despite that not being the point, and then the final comment was, as is pointed out later, easily confused as to what exactly is skeeving Grape out (oh, he says in 68 that this was intentional). His exploration of banned cards that would care about graveyards in 61 felt off to me the first time through, although it feels a little more natural upon reread. Naked vote on Terry when Terry only had three posts felt odd, but not horrible.
93 is one of the townier posts Grape's made. A refocus from someone else to himself is less likely to come from scum. Ah, and there's his rationale in 126 for voting Terry. "I think your vote was forced feeling and the mimicking of the joke you were supposedly finding over the top is a discrediting sort of thing I could see scum you doing." I don't see how you get that sufficiently from Terry's exceptionally brief third post. I don't think I believe that you believe your own reason, at least not to the point of making a serious vote.
Most of 188 sounds fine, but it felt strange for Grape to talk about KA and Terry together, identify something he thought was shady about KA, then identify something he found shady about Terry's attack on KA. It felt like Grape was trying to shade both of them, even though by nature if he thinks Terry is poorly attacking KA, he shouldn't think KA is likely scum.
A lot of the following posts where he argues with Rez seem pretty good. I can see his point of view, and he's arguing with logic. 291 reads as actual frustration, although that's not necessarily NAI.
I was strongly pinged by GF saying in 310 that he remembered someone saying they saw town indicators from Rez but GF not following up on that. Why wouldn't you be interested in what town indicators people saw in your scumspect?
352 was horrible because he took the deflection from his declared top scumspect (Rez) as an opportunity to join the more popular wagon (Terry) without even once questioning whether scum!Rez would bus buddy!Terry like that. (I find it highly unlikely, but that's not the point. The point is that it feels like Grape was just like "ok, person I suspect, you have a good point and I'll blindly follow you onto another player I suspect without really thinking about the relationship between the two of you.")
399 he essentially says he's suspicious of Rez and Terry because they're difficult to work with. Can't speak to Rez, but that's pretty much Terry's default regardless of alignment (no offense intended, Terry).
After claiming roleblocker, I don't buy his assertion in 412 that, as town, he chose Highroller for his pregame ability. The whole "he looks like a guy who enjoys Magic" argument makes nearly ZERO sense to me when Grape could have picked a player he is familiar with to more easily assess that player down the road. I also, as noted, don't believe that he actually thought Highroller would figure out that it was Grape who gave him the choice.
@Grape: Why do you feel like the conditional nature of your ability makes it more likely to be a town ability (434)?
As Dan pointed out, Grape's assertion in 440 that Dan has done less than Bur is pretty terrible shade.
531 is the culmination of Grape's assertion that the lack of counterclaim should point to him being more likely town, but he doesn't even acknowledge the idea that town might not have an interference role. Yes, in a role madness game, I would say it's likely that both town and scum have interference roles, but that doesn't mean that every role madness game will necessarily have them on both sides. This isn't necessarily scummy, though, as I could see the same post coming from Grape knowing that he's a town interference role.
EWP: @Grape: Ok, so I kept seeing that section of 68 as you responding to Bur's question of why you voted Terry, but it almost felt like you were defending Terry, but now I see that you just didn't respond to Dan's question.
Double EWP: And Grape's 552 feels like him feeling out CFD possibilities. +scum
On the plus side, hopefully Grape's still viewing the thread and can respond to the above soon.
I'll look at Terry next, but it may not be tonight. :/ How come the two players I need to review the most have the two highest post counts in the game?
Lol. Yeah, my claim was cryptic, but as Bur explained, it wasn't a cryptoclaim.
I do feel like the balance was pretty strongly town-sided. At the end I was pretty sure that either Rez or Dan were scum because of the similarity of their abilities, and although I decided Rez was more likely, we had enough leeway that if we had mislynched Rez, Dan would have been next on the chopping block.
@Wuffles: Especially given Grape's role, I would not have felt like you would have been out of line to, end of D1, indicate that you didn't realize that the site norm was role-reveal, apologize, and clarify that full roles wouldn't be revealed. I don't know that I would have been as likely to sign up for a no-reveal game, but as it was, I expected that Grape's role highlighting that the target was non-mafia was a balancing element. As the other mafia roles were revealed, it became obvious that that was NOT the case.
@Axel: This is obviously a difference of opinion, so I won't argue too strenuously or expect a rebuttal/discussion, but I feel like a good innovative scum role lends itself to town confusion and obfuscation at every turn, including when that role gets killed/revealed. So the benefit in letting that scum role choose ANY player, not just town, would be in the wifom that would flow upon the scum role's death. I disagree that the right play in that case is always to choose a scumbuddy, as the scum have no idea what the distribution of types among the town are, so it's still nearly random. Targeting a town buys minor town pants. (I realize that if you let a buddy choose, they can choose among the types in the scumpool, which paints town pants in other ways, but that's the point: that the scum had to choose someone to make that call and town who are alive are left to ponder that decision.)
@Grape: You played well. I doubted my read on you several times, and in the end it was a gut call. Happy that I was right, but then I felt like Dan was town, so maybe I just got lucky.
As for my first post...call it bad if you want, but I had rationale behind it that I could explain if forced to during a claim, so I feel like it was ok. Keep in mind that I thought I was a role enabler, as in there were roles (probably 1-3 among the town and 1 among the scum) that needed mana to be able to use their ability, possibly some that specifically needed blue mana. I also realized that I had a mild investigative role since if I targeted a scum artifact and they got two mana and then later claimed non-artifact, I would catch them in a lie (so NOT just a useless fruit vendor/baker, thank you very much!). With that in mind, I wanted to post something to let those roles that needed mana know that I could provide. So I posted a want ad:
SOL = Single overpowered land, but also was a nod to Sol Ring, to put people in the mind of mana generation. "Seeking octogenarians or mature alpha gorillas" was supposed to be a hint that I wanted to find artifacts (silver hair = silver-bordered). "Must have pure motives" was just a "I want to help town" throwaway to make it sound more like your traditional want ad. "Love grandfather clocks" was a reference to Tolarian Academy's flavor text. "Respond here; I'll find you in your dreams" is just "make yourselves known and I'll target you at Night". "Chromatics (color cards) may apply" (I can give mana to anyone), "but YMMV" (it's not going to be as productive as if I target an artifact). I realized after the fact that I completely failed to make any reference to blue (fail!), but also figured it wasn't that big a difference. As it turns out, I was just a silly fruit vendor, so no one was courting my mana, so my efforts were mostly just comical.
On top of my main idea, I figured it might spur some discussion (mostly fail, but thanks for trying Highroller and Grape). In a back corner of my mind, I wondered if scum would be more likely to try to figure the puzzle out than town. Not sure if that was actually the case or if it was just Grape being a good curious player in general.
Thanks to all for a fun game!
@Terry: On a scale of 1-10, with 1 being RVS and 10 being "got a cop check can't vote this guy hard enough", how serious was your vote on Kami in 38?
118 has a lot of confidence, but as I said before, confidence is NAI for Terry, just comes with the territory. Slight scum ping for justification of his RVS vote. I agreed with his suspicions of Rez, but didn't think the suspicion on Kami was justified. I originally liked the first line of 121, but going back and reading page 2, it feels like Terry is really stretching to connect the idea that Grape wants Terry to become invested in the game from Grape's posts. However, his confusion about Grape in 161 felt genuine. I'm not sure what to make of his mixing Grape and Highroller (I think) up in 168.
Huh. Tinfoil time. I was pretty confused by Highroller's 175 where he calls Terry a troll and loose cannon, because I was seeing a lot of calm, rational posting from Terry. It really struck me as odd. But then Terry comes in with his 178 and is sorta crazy and out of control and yelling and stuff. Possibility that the two of them are buddies and Highroller specifically posted that to "rile" Terry up? Stil not sure where Highroller saw the trolling/loose cannon. /tinfoil
@Highroller: What specifically did you see as trolling/loose cannoning from Terry prior to 175?
I don't like the mechanics discussion at the start of 209. Feels like bad setup gaming. I generally like the rest of the post, with quite a bit of mindmeld on his take on page 1 events. Also feels like town who didn't get people rereading like he asked, so he decided to spell things out. Not sure that scum!Terry feels the need to do that. I feel less good about his summary of page 2 in 226, mostly because I think he's way off-base with regard to Highroller.
After that there's a long string of snarky and/or mostly contentless posts. 359 was a handwave of Az's case. While I don't think Az's case was very persuasive, I do think there were some valid perspectives there, and I don't think Terry addressed any of them. I feel like the indignation in 380 is real, but indignation over sheeped votes doesn't necessarily come from town.
There are then...quite a lot of bicker posts that don't add a lot to the conversation. I don't like the passive aggressive attack on Grape in 389, but I don't feel like that's AI for Terry. I don't like his lack of good reasoning to vote Grape (393), then he questions some of the unvote responses to Grape's claim, and then 422 feels like a town post. I think Terry really believes this and is frustrated by the idea that a claim that sounds believable gets a pass.
I like 424, although I guess it could come from scum, but I don't like the snarky attitude in 427. The use of the word "entertain" feels off. After that, a lot of the intentional trolling/references to trolling feel like frustrated town rather than angry scum.
I'm pretty much out of time. I feel like Terry has a mix of good and bad posts with a LOT of filler posts that don't really accomplish much. That said, I still feel like Grape's more likely to be scum. I know it'll look bad for me if Grape flips town and Terry flips scum, but...I just really FEEL like Grape is scum and Terry's town. I'm leaving my vote on Grape.
I believe deadline is in about 2.5 hours, and I very likely will not be on at that time. I will be able to check periodically for about the next hour, so if anyone wants to ask me questions or engage, do so soon. Bare minimum, please do not let a no lynch occur. I would very much like to go into D2 with a lynch to facilitate analysis.
@Axelrod: I'm a little confused as to why Rezombied, who has made multiple posts but hasn't made an impression on you, ranks higher than GanDan, who has made several posts with reads, analysis, and original thought (even if his questions outweigh those reads/analysis/etc) (AND he has a valid reason to lurk). (As an aside, no matter how you intended the "kind of ditto" after my entry in your list, I choose to interpret it as you comparing my play to Azreal, which I 100% take as a high compliment and will treasure always...unless of course you're just scumbuttering me up.)
I'm not terribly impressed with your list, although it's a little bit spicy to put Az high and Iso low, imo. We have two competing wagons right now, and one of them is in your "no opinion to concerning" pile, but you eschew that option to go after lurkers. With the obligatory rationale of "I hate lurkers."
I really wish this had come about 24 hours earlier, as I suddenly really want to CFD onto you, but I don't feel like we have time for that. Working on rereading Terry as we speak.
@Az: Ok, fair. The part that made me less inclined to see it as townish was that he listed FOUR other players. It felt less like town conviction/willingness to trade and more like scum sowing connections.
Can you speak to your 352? Do you think Rez and Terry are buddies? If not, how does your mindset in that post make sense?
And on asking Highroller about why he made his choice, I feel like there was opportunity to do so before you came under significant scrutiny and certainly before you got to claim range, but I don't see any movement from you to do so. You say you didn't even think about it...that surprises me if you're town, as I think you're a good player, and when presented with a tool, town generally tend to start thinking how best to use that tool. I mean, I geeked out a little about my card, too, but then I started figuring out ways to maximize its effectiveness.
@Terry: I know your comment was intended rather tongue in cheek. I hope you see that my response was, too.
@Grape: As I intimated in #51, Vez's comment on my flavor claim made me raise an eyebrow ("Vez gets a town lean...but..."). I wasn't sure why he would post like I was seriously suggesting a flavor claim.
Can you speak to your 352? Do you think Rez and Terry are buddies? If not, how does your mindset in that post make sense?
With choosing Highroller, I'm just trying to put myself in town!you shoes. I know that's not an exact science of an exercise, but if I had a role that allowed another player to make that kind of choice, I'd want to target someone that I felt like I could read so that later, when their choice came to light, hopefully with some corroborating information (like one or two scum's card types), I'd be better equipped to figure out my target's possible choice motivations. That you'd choose someone who you had zero Mafia experience with seems odd to me. I'd also want to get that player's thoughts on what they were choosing (not specifics, but "I chose cards that I wanted good things to happen to" or "I chose cards that I felt would be less likely to be in the game" or somesuch) before I revealed what the choice did to help me gauge how they chose. This points, I feel, to the role being a scum role, as town wants to use it as a tool to help figure out their target (which is much more difficult to do when the target doesn't know what they're choosing), while scum is just happy messing with their target and gaining two card types to roleblock. I didn't see you trying to use it as a tool at all, so I think it's more likely you're scum.
I can see your point on it being restricted being more likely to be on town, I suppose. But the pre-game random nature I think points to scum (especially with no explanation of what the ability does). For example, if it's a town ability, you have an uninformed town who has to choose randomly among all other players. The recipient, without being told what the choice does, and with no way to find out or figure out before they make their choice, just chooses two card types. That feels like--at its base--just a randomization of an ability. If that's the case, why wouldn't Wuffles just give you a role that says "these two card types were randomly selected at the start of the game; if you target one of these card types with your ability, you roleblock that player"?
Conversely, if it's a scum ability, then all kinds of WIFOM and choices come into play. Before the game even begins, you have the opportunity to mess with a townie, possibly make yourself seem like a friend, someone who gave them a choice, someone who shares a secret with them. After you flip, unless your chosen target is obv!town, the town may mistakenly mislynch thinking you targeted scum, or if you targeted a buddy, maybe they give him town pants for being your target. The more I think about it, the more likely it seems that it's a scum role. I admit that I will sometimes fall into the modgaming/setupgaming trap, so by itself, I wouldn't see this alone as condemning, but in conjunction with the behavioral pings, I really think you're the best lynch for toDay.
50 has several elements that didn't feel right to me. The whole "I feel insulted and complimented" part is vague, he focuses on my being scum for suggesting a flavor claim in another game, despite that not being the point, and then the final comment was, as is pointed out later, easily confused as to what exactly is skeeving Grape out (oh, he says in 68 that this was intentional). His exploration of banned cards that would care about graveyards in 61 felt off to me the first time through, although it feels a little more natural upon reread. Naked vote on Terry when Terry only had three posts felt odd, but not horrible.
93 is one of the townier posts Grape's made. A refocus from someone else to himself is less likely to come from scum. Ah, and there's his rationale in 126 for voting Terry. "I think your vote was forced feeling and the mimicking of the joke you were supposedly finding over the top is a discrediting sort of thing I could see scum you doing." I don't see how you get that sufficiently from Terry's exceptionally brief third post. I don't think I believe that you believe your own reason, at least not to the point of making a serious vote.
Most of 188 sounds fine, but it felt strange for Grape to talk about KA and Terry together, identify something he thought was shady about KA, then identify something he found shady about Terry's attack on KA. It felt like Grape was trying to shade both of them, even though by nature if he thinks Terry is poorly attacking KA, he shouldn't think KA is likely scum.
A lot of the following posts where he argues with Rez seem pretty good. I can see his point of view, and he's arguing with logic. 291 reads as actual frustration, although that's not necessarily NAI.
I was strongly pinged by GF saying in 310 that he remembered someone saying they saw town indicators from Rez but GF not following up on that. Why wouldn't you be interested in what town indicators people saw in your scumspect?
352 was horrible because he took the deflection from his declared top scumspect (Rez) as an opportunity to join the more popular wagon (Terry) without even once questioning whether scum!Rez would bus buddy!Terry like that. (I find it highly unlikely, but that's not the point. The point is that it feels like Grape was just like "ok, person I suspect, you have a good point and I'll blindly follow you onto another player I suspect without really thinking about the relationship between the two of you.")
399 he essentially says he's suspicious of Rez and Terry because they're difficult to work with. Can't speak to Rez, but that's pretty much Terry's default regardless of alignment (no offense intended, Terry).
After claiming roleblocker, I don't buy his assertion in 412 that, as town, he chose Highroller for his pregame ability. The whole "he looks like a guy who enjoys Magic" argument makes nearly ZERO sense to me when Grape could have picked a player he is familiar with to more easily assess that player down the road. I also, as noted, don't believe that he actually thought Highroller would figure out that it was Grape who gave him the choice.
@Grape: Why do you feel like the conditional nature of your ability makes it more likely to be a town ability (434)?
As Dan pointed out, Grape's assertion in 440 that Dan has done less than Bur is pretty terrible shade.
531 is the culmination of Grape's assertion that the lack of counterclaim should point to him being more likely town, but he doesn't even acknowledge the idea that town might not have an interference role. Yes, in a role madness game, I would say it's likely that both town and scum have interference roles, but that doesn't mean that every role madness game will necessarily have them on both sides. This isn't necessarily scummy, though, as I could see the same post coming from Grape knowing that he's a town interference role.
EWP: @Grape: Ok, so I kept seeing that section of 68 as you responding to Bur's question of why you voted Terry, but it almost felt like you were defending Terry, but now I see that you just didn't respond to Dan's question.
Double EWP: And Grape's 552 feels like him feeling out CFD possibilities. +scum
On the plus side, hopefully Grape's still viewing the thread and can respond to the above soon.
I'll look at Terry next, but it may not be tonight. :/ How come the two players I need to review the most have the two highest post counts in the game?
68
61
I see the spelling error on the second one, but no idea why the first one didn't work.