MTG Salvation

I know its only been 2 weeks, but the meta has evolved enough that that list, while great, is behind the times. The latest update cuts Eldritch Evolutions for Okos. Huge boost for fair matchups.

Yes, its rare. It can be very relevant: these decks demand more white mana than ever before (Giver of Runes, Elad Call, Ranger Captain) so your G/W lands and mana dorks are tapping for W. So the dark ritual for green can be very good.

I'm assuming what you're really getting at is "why Vines over other protective spells?" The answer is that Vines does so many things. In addition to protection and buffs, it can, for example prevent your opponent from equipping their creatures. Once you see that angle, its a pretty useful card.

I'm on the Stoneforge package now. It's definitely interesting. I'm not sure how good it is yet. I'm not crazy enough to play 4 colors, but I am on the light blue splash.

One thing I was introduced to, that is meager for the Stoneforge shell but ideal for all-in Druid combo: Vines of Vastwood. More protection is always welcome, but when Druid is online Vines is also a Dark Ritual!

For a deck that includes Stoneforge, zero Stoneforge in the main is either genius or madness.

That version DEFINITELY looks better prepared for a fair meta. I've found something else I like for now, but that is very solid.

Long story short, midrange hell is midrange hell. There are a limited number of cards that the opponent needs to answer, so it is easy for the opponent to have sufficient answers. I'm going to be trying something drastically different for now. If the meta gets really fast again, such that creature removal is low, I'd try this again (it thrived in the original Hogaak meta). Otherwise, I'll be on a Druid combo that has card advantage built in.

I can't find my 4th Postmortem Lunge and my Shapers' Sanctuarys, so I'm substituting 1x Ranger-Captain of Eos MD and 2x Vesperlark in the SB. At first I was really reticent to make any deviations from the original plan, but I think these will work out really well as they play very nicely with Lil Teferi. We'll see how it goes tonight!

After getting a taste of other options, learning lessons from other decks, and trying a few stupid things, I've brewed up this list.


It's designed to retain as much as possible of that unfair, super fast power of the original neoform+eldritch shells, while surviving in a super fair (lots of removal and interaction) environment.

By the way, why do you play more than one Duskwatch? You only need one. That extra slot could be a second Lil Teferi in the MD.

My meta is absolutely polluted with UW and Bx. So even without having concrete data on Veil, I'll be jamming it hard. Post board I'll be on 4x Lil Tefer and 4x Veil. The 4x Giver is obvious. I think I keep all 4 Lunge in, post board despite the GY hate, just because it increases the number of win routes.

Playing 7x cards that 2-for-1 me, in a meta of removal and discard and counterspells is not viable. I'm trying some brews while I figure out where I want to go with the deck. I'm certain 4x MD Giver and 3-4x SB Veil will be in any version I build. Once I have anything worth discussing, I'll report back.

Anyone tested Veil of Summer yet? Reid Duke's article on it gives me high hopes. It's already $2 each! I hope to be taking it for a spin at FNM.

Oooh nice ideas! I'll try them out.

Also, the Discord channels for Druid combo got some reorganizing. All-in shells, like this deck, are now separate from Chalice shells. Things should be clearer now.

Quote from AcademyRuins »

\You could post your tourney report to /r/ModernMagic and /r/modernspikes

I already did!

Quote from AcademyRuins »

The problem with midrange is that the combination of discard and removal makes it the most difficult archetype to combo against. On top of that, they have more card advantage and better raw card quality, so it's hard to try and grind them out. And lastly, quick clocks like Goyf and Scooze mean you have to draw removal or somehow race them.

Pro black creatures work because it's a way to play fair that simply cheeses midrange instead of playing their grindy two-for-one game. I'm guessing Mirran Crusader or Mystic Enforcer aren't what you're looking for :o) The advantage with those two over Colossus against BG is that they better deal with a board of opposing green beaters. Beyond pro black creatures, with 4 Tef already in the 75 the best suggestion I have are walkers like Gideon AoZ. You could try going super deep with other cheese plans like Asceticism which would allow you to chump, regen until you assemble the combo. But it goes without saying that 5 mana is a lot. I tried Tireless Tracker, which was okay, but it underperformed most of the time. It's not hard to race the clues or the body, and they can easily kill it within a turn to limit you to one or two clues drawn.

I think you missed the point I was making: the pro-black dudes plan may beat BGx, but it does NOT beat all the other decks that disrupt on multiple axes and apply pressure, such as BW Eldrazi, Mardu Pyromancer, and Esper Death's Shadow.
So I'm looking for alternatives. I suppose we could play fair with Lil Teferi and Gideon AoZ. But Giver of Runes may change everything. Giver backed up by Greaves, Shalai, Eternal Witness, and maybe some sort of removal should handle ANY midrange deck. But the MD has few slots to cut in general and the SB obviously does not have that kind of space. I'd really like to hear your experiences with Giver in relation to midrange opponents.

Quote from AcademyRuins »

By the way, I've been liking Giver after recognizing that I want more protection effects than 4 Lunge. Presently, I am cutting the extra dork, 3rd Neoform, and 2nd main deck Tef for 3 Giver. I moved the Tef to the board, cutting the 3rd BFT.

Try to fit the 4th Giver, so you can see it often so you can evaluate the card properly. It is good in so many circumstances and you need to experience that.

I'm finally having some success with the deck. Here's my tournament report:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-denUciIxx59UgiTb2FG-RSGP9KfUnon3F2FfUPzW7I/edit?usp=drivesdk

@AcademyRuins: Due to the diversity of midrange strategies, I'm looking for answers besides Chameleon Colossus, etc. Have you found any good hate?

This should be a permanent link to the Druid discord. There's no channel for this particular version of Druid Combo but we can change that. Let me know if anyone has trouble with it:
https://discord.gg/C7WdRPr

Quote from OptBoy »

After testing the list above a little bit, it seems to me like splashing both blue and black is worth it. The cost of running two extra shocks is minimal. Thoughtseize in the sideboard helps a lot against other linear decks and helps you dodge boardwipes in the grindier matches. Plague engineer hasn't been that usefull so far, but I can imagine this card doing work against Infect, which I suspect will be played a lot.

I can understand the value of Thoughtseize against boardwipes, but how does it help against linear decks? There are few decks that are faster than us: wouldn't our time and resources be better spent comboing? IMO, sideboard options against specific super-high-speed matchups should be more speed or deck-specific hate cards.

Contrast with this list:
http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=30876&iddeck=263025
This is definitely slower than us, but much much more fair. Thoughtseize in the SB looks super strong there and clearly was worthwhile given that she made Top 8 in the event.

Now, to address the Thoughseize vs board wipes: we're usually hoping to go under boardwipes. However, we have to admit that said plan is not reliable. So Thoughseize DEFINITELY has value here. However, the mana base is already a little strained if you want to do game winning things on turns 2 and 3. If you're looking past the 4th turn regularly, you might want to consider a different version of Druid combo (like the link I posted above, which definitely looks rad).

As far as this shell dealing with sweepers: has anyone considered Nissa, Steward of Elements? We cast her for 2 (X=0) and her 0 ability has 40 possible hits in the deck. However, said hits are a little low in individual value.