He had 12 abilities lmao
having one which presents as townsided is just well balanced regardless of alignment (even if we assume it exists)
What do you mean "assume it exists". It's been confirmed. Vezok and Tom are not both lying. And it doesn't just present as townsided, it is literally pointless on scum. Having pointless abilities, whether part of a JOAT or not, is just not a thing that happens.
KA following Vez's hard push on town!you in Token Mafia did you feel at all alarmed or intrigued by how much you guys synced in this game?
I had vague concerns early on, but he's got far too much continuing townie evidence. Seriously, his role is nearly an IC at this point in time.
DON'T REALLY AGREE WITH EITHER VEZ OR WORSTS ROLES BEING AI. LIKE, IT'S RANDOM ABILITIES
BUT IT WOULD BE PRETTY HILARIOUS IF THE SUM TOTAL OF SCUM VEZ'S NIGHT ACTIONS THIS GAME MANAGED TO IMPROVE DAN'S ROLE AND PROVE ME AND WORST DIDN'T COMMIT KILLS
THINGS RARELY GO QUITE THAT RIDICULOUSLY
Vez has an NK-blocker. There are no town killing roles. Explain how that's not AI.
I actually liked your posting in token mafia markedly more than I do here. you weren't around as much so small sample size but in addition to the above I think 479 and 502 are town indicative. 479 has the kind of flow and effort to gamesolve intuitively and pretty smoothly blends where you're at wrt combo of mechanics + gamestate that comes from town
502 is a deliciously paranoid read on a slot that isn't worth pushing for a wolf at that point and reads as genuinely paranoid
I actually think you read really different there vs. here
The only thing different about Token was that I was in a hydra, and you don't even comment on that.
I get that convincing other people of my reads is the part of Mafia I'm worst at, I just wish it wasn't happening in Lylo.
Vezok, do you have anything but surprise? Commentary on this, I guess it's a trichotomy?
I WOULD HAVE TO BE UNBLOCKABLE EXTRA KILL WOULD HAVE JUST BEEN ALL 3 KILLS STOPPED
Unblockable would work. Or you have an extra kill and the block doesn't affect delayed kills. Or factional kills aren't affected. Or the Hider who's not-really-dead really can fire the "extra action" factional kill when there's only one of you (which would also explain why Cantrip got caught - there were still 2 scum alive then).
There are more options here than there are for Worst, because I think the modtext more clearly and explicitly shuts down some variants.
MY NOTIFICATION SAID ALL KILLING ACTIONS, AS DID VEZOK.
"Stops all killing actions taken N3" and "A kill delayed from N2 doesn't count as taking an action N3" are perfectly compatible.
Yes, if killma can perform actions, none of us but Vezok is clear. Notably, my mechanical clear on Vezok doesn't rely on kill timing, so in that case Vezok still comes out on top.
Stepping away again until Vezok has a chance to post. The three of us are arguing in circles and I'm no closer to figuring out which of you is scum, and I doubt I'm any closer to convincing whichever of you is town to re-evaluate the situation.
If you're town I'm sorry in like a post-game fashion, Kami. there's something about soft mechanical solves and reads that can be summed up with a table that just doesn't fit well with me. they don't feel genuine and ~flowy~, I'm getting more of a pre-planned structured energy.
tonality is one thing but it's kinda like I could draw a graph that sums up your exact position in the game and that's just not something I see coming from townies who are confused and hard pressed to solve a puzzle with super limited time :?
I know self-meta is of limited value, but this is just how I work. You can look at, for example, Token Power. Which was also in the middle of getting run up for a mislynch, amusingly enough.
I WOULD HAVE TO BE UNBLOCKABLE EXTRA KILL WOULD HAVE JUST BEEN ALL 3 KILLS STOPPED
Unblockable would work. Or you have an extra kill and the block doesn't affect delayed kills. Or factional kills aren't affected. Or the Hider who's not-really-dead really can fire the "extra action" factional kill when there's only one of you (which would also explain why Cantrip got caught - there were still 2 scum alive then).
There are more options here than there are for Worst, because I think the modtext more clearly and explicitly shuts down some variants.
KA if you acknowledge there's a world where I can be town engage with me a little? you're basically telling me the last wolf is Tom at this point. we agree Vez is never being lynched. sell me that Tom needs to be lynch #2
on the flip side if you just think Tom is town explain why I'm a wolf?
it feels like you don't have any conviction in your 2p dichotomy and I'm getting the feeling like you've achieved two lynches you think you can get (or end the game without being lynched, worst case scenario) but I am not feeling like you're feeling like there's a sense of urgency and need to solve this
I have explained the scenarios multiple times. I feel like either you're town and you're so convinced I'm scum that you can't see past your existing read, or you're scum and you don't actually care about understanding. But sure, I'll sum it up another time.
Vezok is behaviorally the best of you three. He directly caused Killma's death on Day 1, and has been solidly townie throughout.
Vezok is also mechanically the best of you three. If he's scum, he has a pointless role; I judge pointless roles to be less probable than tricky ones.
You are behaviorally the worst of the three. I disliked your interactions earlier in the thread, and right now you're being gung-ho about killing me despite the Lylo danger, and I feel like you're misrepresenting or dismissing my points unfairly. While the immediate actions are obviously more apparent in the moment, I actually think it's your earlier thread behavior that is more of a consideration here, because it's consistent (and I don't have to worry about separating my emotional feeling at being targeted).
You are mechanically better than Tom. You need a "trickier" role + actions combination in order to fit the mechanical info we have.
Tom is behaviorally in the middle, with some minor suspicious things early but also townie interactions and behavior.
Tom is mechanically the worst; he requires a "tricky" role including an extra kill in order to do the thing, but that's less than what you need, and extra kills are pretty common.
Whichever of you is town, please consider that I created two extra lynches, while risking my own life in the process. In what universe does scum!KA do that? I assume this could be a scum role, I can see its utility for scum - but at that point in the game, with all the roles on the board already, scum!me could have picked virtually any falseclaim at my leisure (no rolecop in the game except a low-probability one on Vezok's randomizer). If I was scum, I could have let us lynch Albertino, killed a high/cleared townie, let us lynch Grapefruit, killed a high/cleared townie, and entered a way easier Lylo.
I'm fairly certain I want to vote both of you, actually. You're both more likely than Vezok is, both behaviorally and mechanically.
veeeeezok
MECHANICALLY? REALLY?
VEZOK DEFINITELY THE LEAST MECHANICAL HOOPS TO JUMP THROUGH TO BE SCUM (AFTER YOU)
AGREE ON BEHAVIOR THOUGH. VEZOKS PLAY PRETTY SLICK IF SCUM.
Yes, mechanically. Because of the NK-blocking role, which is confirmed. A double kill, or a way around a killblock, is tricky; a scum NK-blocker with no vigs is pointless. Tricky roles sometimes exist; pointless roles don't.
Worst, you're trying real hard to shade me. I know at least one of you and Tom is town so I have to interact with you both like you're simultaneously town and scum. And I am not going to throw around votes because it's Lylo and votes are dangerous.
I know damn well that this sounds like OMGUS, but that's how Lylo works.
Hm, actually, yes, if you dropped the bass confirmably during Night then it's not you. But we don't have confirmation that you did that during Night - we only know it showed up at the start of the Day. That suggests a Night action, but it's theoretically possible for it to be Day-activated (e.g. you fired it during D1 and it affects the next Day).
But you're right that it's much more straightforward for Tom+Cantrip to just be theater. The only confirmation we have is from each other.
I don't have an alibi; I don't have a Night action at all.
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This game was a lot of fun. I was surprised that I actually had any chance to win at the end, given the back-to-back scum deaths to open.
I get that convincing other people of my reads is the part of Mafia I'm worst at, I just wish it wasn't happening in Lylo.
Vezok, do you have anything but surprise? Commentary on this, I guess it's a trichotomy?
Yes, if killma can perform actions, none of us but Vezok is clear. Notably, my mechanical clear on Vezok doesn't rely on kill timing, so in that case Vezok still comes out on top.
Stepping away again until Vezok has a chance to post. The three of us are arguing in circles and I'm no closer to figuring out which of you is scum, and I doubt I'm any closer to convincing whichever of you is town to re-evaluate the situation.
There are more options here than there are for Worst, because I think the modtext more clearly and explicitly shuts down some variants.
Vezok is behaviorally the best of you three. He directly caused Killma's death on Day 1, and has been solidly townie throughout.
Vezok is also mechanically the best of you three. If he's scum, he has a pointless role; I judge pointless roles to be less probable than tricky ones.
You are behaviorally the worst of the three. I disliked your interactions earlier in the thread, and right now you're being gung-ho about killing me despite the Lylo danger, and I feel like you're misrepresenting or dismissing my points unfairly. While the immediate actions are obviously more apparent in the moment, I actually think it's your earlier thread behavior that is more of a consideration here, because it's consistent (and I don't have to worry about separating my emotional feeling at being targeted).
You are mechanically better than Tom. You need a "trickier" role + actions combination in order to fit the mechanical info we have.
Tom is behaviorally in the middle, with some minor suspicious things early but also townie interactions and behavior.
Tom is mechanically the worst; he requires a "tricky" role including an extra kill in order to do the thing, but that's less than what you need, and extra kills are pretty common.
Worst, you're trying real hard to shade me. I know at least one of you and Tom is town so I have to interact with you both like you're simultaneously town and scum. And I am not going to throw around votes because it's Lylo and votes are dangerous.
I know damn well that this sounds like OMGUS, but that's how Lylo works.
veeeeezok
Now is that a towny derp by Worst or a scummy attempt to pull the wool over our eyes? Argh.
No, I'm going to take a step away from the thread and think about this for a while. Also give vezok time to chime in.
But you're right that it's much more straightforward for Tom+Cantrip to just be theater. The only confirmation we have is from each other.
I don't have an alibi; I don't have a Night action at all.