It has been quiet in the midrange sections of the forums lately. Knightfall does get some attention, but i feel Abzan is in a great position to grind out even the fastest graveyard decks. We can load up on-strat gave hate and have more in the sideboard. We have access to maindeck Scavenging Ooze, Kaya's Guile and even Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet. That's more that any other deck in the format if i'm not mistaken. We can only add to that from the side.
I also think that with the fast aggro currently dominating and able to operrate on a very slim manabase, the disadvantages of Path and Trophy ar neglible. Of this, i'm not quite sure. But it has happened to me before that i flood with zoo style decks with nothing else to do.
With this i must admit, modern has lost some interest since we (our playgroup) went allin on EDH and i havn't been to FNM voor over 8 months. Though if i would take my beloved Abzan deck to one now, i'd be trying to tune my traverse list to a more oldskool midrangey approach with added card draw to go trough our deck a little better.
I have had some time to let my initial emotions on Kaya's Guile settle, and have come to the conclusion that this card is even better as i thought this morning. Half asleep, i totally missed the "choose two" line.
In my revaluation it's as close to or even better than jund's Kolaghan's Command for it's flexibility in the current meta. I'm very convinced this card will see modern play, fits one of my stronger modern decks, is pre-order worthy and i will try some number of them in my list.
I very much like the new Yawgmoth as a card on it's own i must say.
I too have been eyeing spoilers for additions to Abzan and thusfar nothing much, but the now spoiled Kaya's Guile triggered me instantly. It has a little bit of Lili/Ooze/Souls/Finks all in one card.
Could this maybe replace one of our LotV's as a one shot removal piece with added flexibility stapled on, or should it be considered sideboard material at best?
A friend of mine recently tested out an Abzan Built focussing more on resource denial over anything else. He maindecked 4 Assassin's Trophy, 4 Ghost Quarter and 4 Path to Exile to overload the amount of basics most >2c decks in modern play.
The problem with this is that it does nothing against the problem decks of the moment, which are all 2color or colorless.
I've played against it with Abzan Delirium, feeling pretty much as a mirror and with Humans against which the strategy it did nothing more as normal Abzan could do (drop as many goyf's and spirits as possible to defend and take over late)
But, i have a feeling that this core however, could be very good if certain (un)bannings happen today.
After a few months of multiplayer commander, me and a friend sat down for some old fashioned modern quality games. And they were.
Amongst others, I played my slightly updated Abzan Traverse deck and i must say, it still feels pretty solid. Played vs BUG Delver and the latest itteration of dredge. Conflagrate and Creeping Chill together is so busted, but our Rhino's and new Knight do a pretty good job at mittigating the effect.
I still feel white is worth it bcause of this, but next time i'll try straight Rock with 3 FoR and 4 trophies, just to get a feel for how strong the LD package is. The lists look prommissing enough though and i'd love to play my trackers again!
Don't want to sound rude but this isn't threat for the budget version of a deck. You should look at the budget forum. Hopefully you find there what you're looking for.
Actually I would appreciate it if you found something better to do. Hopefully you just kinda go away.
No reason to start a mudfight. The choice of words could be more subtile, but what he was trying to say, budget aside, is that Abzan Midrange/Traverse and BG Rock are very very different strategies from what you are trying to do.
I would advice you to have a look at the Abzan Liege or the GW creature toolbox decks, which have more in common with what you are trying to do.
I've been reading a lot of trophy talk the last few days/weeks and it has struck me that, no one is talking about arming against trophy.
I don't see any tickups in running basics apart from rock lists. Adjusting manabases or spellpackages to be more consistent.
I allready run three in my traverse build and i am very worried those won't be enough against decks that pack 10~12 "go fetch a basic" spells.
Mirror matches and greedy matchups seem to be all about resources from now on.
@Velthov: no is misread it entirely. My bad. We're on the same page.
As i'm reading more of the card and know i will need a playset to cover all bases, i'm starting of with 2 maindeck copies in modern and probably an extra in the side. The card is awesoms, but the question raises: what to cut.
It seems like we all forgot that many modern decks don't even run all that many basic lands (data from mtggoldfish).
Humans is on 2 basics
Burn is on 3 basics
Bant Spirits is on 3 basics
Hollow One is on 4 basics (when even being a 2 color deck!)
Storm is on 3 basics
Most BGx decks are on 4 basics, excluding BG Rock
The point I'm trying to make is that they sometimes naturally draw their basics or fetch actively for them. Making the draw back of Trophy sometimes less relevant the more copies you play. Obviously I expect the meta to adjust and play more basics if Trophy is a 4-off in every BGx deck.
This is pretty shortsighted as i think the new modern meta will adept to cards like this. I.e. make decks run more basics and be more aware of the casting restrictions of spells.
I've played the extra Island in humans when path became more popular again and trophy will be even worse for us humans players.
In Abzan i'm allready on three basics, but we have to arm ourselfs for the "upside" of facing Trophy too.
I think traverse will become more popular for its fixing ability too.
Another thing that has struck me about this card is that it's just so very powerfull, WotC must be planning to put something new, or something powerful back into modern that warants an answer like this. Twin or SfM spring to mind.
I agree. This is the core pretty much and the rest is flavor. My deck differs slightly but we use the same manabase. I like your inclusion of basic plains like i do. This will be even better when encountering more paths and trophies.
I'll still be rocking Anafenza for as long my friend has his dregde ddck sleeved up, but it has obvious uses against other strategies nowdays.
In my traverse list i'm going to start with 2 Trophies in the main and i might cut Maelstrom Pulse from the side for a third copy. I will feep my one copy of Fulminator Mage for any big mana deck amd will swap Reclamation Sage for Knight of Autumn.
For those big mana decks i will also keep Ghost Quarter maindeck amd i will go down a copy of Abrupt Decay and the singleton Grisly Salvage.
This last one feels a little tricky since it can help rebuild after the yard gets exiled and can also provide CA with LtlH. All while putting Instant in the yard. This last is obviously mittigated by the new addition.
I'm really lookimg forward to the release of GRN. It's shapimg up to be a pretty nice set for most of my decks.
Do you think it's wise dropping Fulminator Mage and Ghost Quarter alltogether?
I think Assassin's Trophy is a great addition to help beat our bad matchups, but i wouldn't want to give up the option to traverse for the answer.
Truths spoken here, though i want to stress that all options are probably be worth trying out. Even the split Decay/Tropy in relation to path.
The new knight will definately replace Reclamation Sage for multiple reasons oviously
Exciting times.
I also think that with the fast aggro currently dominating and able to operrate on a very slim manabase, the disadvantages of Path and Trophy ar neglible. Of this, i'm not quite sure. But it has happened to me before that i flood with zoo style decks with nothing else to do.
With this i must admit, modern has lost some interest since we (our playgroup) went allin on EDH and i havn't been to FNM voor over 8 months. Though if i would take my beloved Abzan deck to one now, i'd be trying to tune my traverse list to a more oldskool midrangey approach with added card draw to go trough our deck a little better.
2 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Plains
3 Nurturing Peatland
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
1 Temple Garden
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
1 Prismatic Vista
1 Hissing Quagmire
2 Treetop Village
Planeswalkers
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, The Last Hope
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Dark Confidant
3 Scavenging Ooze
1 Yawgmoth, Thran Physician
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
Spells
3 Fatal Push
2 Path to Exile
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
3 Assassin's Trophy
3 Kaya's Guile
3 Lingering Souls
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Stony Silence
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Knight of Autumn
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Damnation
What would everybody else be doing with the deck now that the new set is out?
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
In my revaluation it's as close to or even better than jund's Kolaghan's Command for it's flexibility in the current meta. I'm very convinced this card will see modern play, fits one of my stronger modern decks, is pre-order worthy and i will try some number of them in my list.
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
I too have been eyeing spoilers for additions to Abzan and thusfar nothing much, but the now spoiled Kaya's Guile triggered me instantly. It has a little bit of Lili/Ooze/Souls/Finks all in one card.
Could this maybe replace one of our LotV's as a one shot removal piece with added flexibility stapled on, or should it be considered sideboard material at best?
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
The problem with this is that it does nothing against the problem decks of the moment, which are all 2color or colorless.
I've played against it with Abzan Delirium, feeling pretty much as a mirror and with Humans against which the strategy it did nothing more as normal Abzan could do (drop as many goyf's and spirits as possible to defend and take over late)
But, i have a feeling that this core however, could be very good if certain (un)bannings happen today.
What is your oppinion on this?
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
Amongst others, I played my slightly updated Abzan Traverse deck and i must say, it still feels pretty solid. Played vs BUG Delver and the latest itteration of dredge. Conflagrate and Creeping Chill together is so busted, but our Rhino's and new Knight do a pretty good job at mittigating the effect.
I still feel white is worth it bcause of this, but next time i'll try straight Rock with 3 FoR and 4 trophies, just to get a feel for how strong the LD package is. The lists look prommissing enough though and i'd love to play my trackers again!
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
No reason to start a mudfight. The choice of words could be more subtile, but what he was trying to say, budget aside, is that Abzan Midrange/Traverse and BG Rock are very very different strategies from what you are trying to do.
I would advice you to have a look at the Abzan Liege or the GW creature toolbox decks, which have more in common with what you are trying to do.
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
I don't see any tickups in running basics apart from rock lists. Adjusting manabases or spellpackages to be more consistent.
I allready run three in my traverse build and i am very worried those won't be enough against decks that pack 10~12 "go fetch a basic" spells.
Mirror matches and greedy matchups seem to be all about resources from now on.
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
As i'm reading more of the card and know i will need a playset to cover all bases, i'm starting of with 2 maindeck copies in modern and probably an extra in the side. The card is awesoms, but the question raises: what to cut.
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
This is pretty shortsighted as i think the new modern meta will adept to cards like this. I.e. make decks run more basics and be more aware of the casting restrictions of spells.
I've played the extra Island in humans when path became more popular again and trophy will be even worse for us humans players.
In Abzan i'm allready on three basics, but we have to arm ourselfs for the "upside" of facing Trophy too.
I think traverse will become more popular for its fixing ability too.
Another thing that has struck me about this card is that it's just so very powerfull, WotC must be planning to put something new, or something powerful back into modern that warants an answer like this. Twin or SfM spring to mind.
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
I agree. This is the core pretty much and the rest is flavor. My deck differs slightly but we use the same manabase. I like your inclusion of basic plains like i do. This will be even better when encountering more paths and trophies.
I'll still be rocking Anafenza for as long my friend has his dregde ddck sleeved up, but it has obvious uses against other strategies nowdays.
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
For those big mana decks i will also keep Ghost Quarter maindeck amd i will go down a copy of Abrupt Decay and the singleton Grisly Salvage.
This last one feels a little tricky since it can help rebuild after the yard gets exiled and can also provide CA with LtlH. All while putting Instant in the yard. This last is obviously mittigated by the new addition.
I'm really lookimg forward to the release of GRN. It's shapimg up to be a pretty nice set for most of my decks.
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
I think Assassin's Trophy is a great addition to help beat our bad matchups, but i wouldn't want to give up the option to traverse for the answer.
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
The new knight will definately replace Reclamation Sage for multiple reasons oviously
Exciting times.
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
What about the extra Path to Exile downside?
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -