Old school (kinda) Junk list 5-0’d a Modern League recently. I dunno, if I’m playing 3x Siege Rhino I feel like I want to play him turn-3 à la Noble Hierarch, but I’m guessing they just wanted to draw straight gas off the top instead of top-decking a Hierarch on turn-6 when you’re hellbent and need to find a Path or a Lili or something substantial.
I like the 6x copies of Goyf by way of 2x Tasigur, the Golden Fang. I’d be half tempted to run a single Doran, the Siege Tower just because of all the 4/5’s and */*+1’s, and also because there’s no Bob at 2/1 or Tracker at 3/2.
The removal suite is interesting. Wide coverage. 3x Path, 3x Decay, and 1x Pulse, with 1x Path and 1x Trophy in the SB, and 2x Damnation for the sweeps. I still like Settle the Wreckage right now though. I guess it’d be kind of an obvious play though as this deck isn’t doing much else on the opponent’s turn, especially at 4cmc.
Painful Truths is an interesting card for the grindy MU’s. I play it in EDH but don’t see it much in Modern. Seems decent, actually.
Thoughts?
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I know I have seen these lists as well. I understand building that same manabase for that reason. And it might not matter for one FNM or two. But if you keep that manabases the inconsistancy will eventually catch you. Yeah I am more on the consistant side. Its up to you to decide of course.
I mean you can personally say okay I am fine with 17 black only and play 2 treetop. Or you can play 25 lands or you can maybe only play 1 forest but this seems very sketchy. Just wanted to raise awareness of this, as very many lists you find online right now are actually qutie greedy.
No, man, makes perfect sense to me. I’m gonna rework those lands. Like I said, I was already skeptical. I skimmed through that article you wrote up, by the way. Good info. I will say that with so many 1cmc and 2cmc options to play on turn-three, I’m not extremely concerned with having a 94% chance of slamming Lili. A little worse odds than that probably wouldn’t bother me here.
How’d the removal suite look? Any suggestions there? I’m just not sure exactly what I’m going for here. Is this Jund with some minor changes/replacements, or am I truly playing a different archetype? I do know that Bob and Tracker make some stupid CA.
Also, I wish the new Vraska would have been viable. It’d be cool to have a 4cmc Golgari PW.
@Piney Your manabase is too inconsistant unfortunately. You cant run more than 1-2 Treetop in Rock, and here is why:
You need 18 black sources for Liliana. Field of Ruin as a card doesnt count as source for anycard with CMC 1-3 for obvious reasons. So in your list you only have 15 black sources, which is 3 too few. This is extremely relevant. I would suggest the following changes:
-1 FoR (you cannot run 4 FoR in a 24 landbase only, it would be the 25th for consistancy reasons)
-2 Treetop
+2 Quagmire
+1 Swamp
I know this is a lot of pure statements, but explainaing all that is rather much. I am going to link you my article on reddit though which I wrote just recently which exactly tackles this topic:
This should show you that the Rock manabase is actually very tight when colourless lands are involved.
Man, I was worried about that, but some of the lists I've seen lately were all really heavy on the Treetop and FoR so I figured it was safe. I'm used to having to be a lot pickier on my manabase in Jund, but thought maybe since Rock was two-colored it was a different story. I'm really not familiar with Field of Ruin, namely how you have to treat it when considering your manabase. I assumed that since you can use it to fix your mana that you could be a little more lax with it in regard to it being colorless. And with its lower curve, I thought maybe Rock could be more content to sit back, fetch a black source with FoR, play a Fatal Push or Inquisition, and pass the turn, setting up a Lili for next turn.
But I trust you Delver. I know you like to play it safer than some on the manabases, but I was skeptical of that particular manabase already. I just assumed it was kosher because I saw some lists running it. Surely there's a way for me to jam a second Treetop though?
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So here's the list I've been working on. I would greatly appreciate any and all input, as I'm probably about to order the few cards I need (that I don't own from already owning Jund) to complete this list. So if I'm screwing up somewhere, I'd like to know so I don't order anything I don't need. This list appears extremely competitive on paper, and has proved so on Cockatrice (though I know there's always the possibility that that anecdotal data is skewed). Honestly I'm not sure why I haven't seen more Rock decks placing after playing around with this one.
I'm really up in the air on that second Brutality in the main. I feel like it could be better suited as something else, but I'm not certain. I'm pretty pleased with the sideboard, but Cage and Sphere are flex slots in my opinion. It feels really streamlined, and really well equipped for the meta (my LGS seems to be mimicking the pro tour right now). With that said, it's a new archetype for me and I could be way off. I would greatly appreciate some input!
Thanks, as always.
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Going to run out Golgari Midrange to the LGS tonight to mix things up. Thoughts on this? I don't own Dark Confidant any longer, but I'm also not sure it's great in an aggressive metagame.
I’m working on a Rock deck at the moment from Jund, so I’m having to switch my train of thought a little, but I do have a couple of thoughts on this since it’s fresh on my mind.
***The following is inaccurate, according to Delver, and I would trust him more. I saw a couple of lists on MTGO competitive league running this landbase, but maybe they were just lucky to get away with it.***
One is RUN MORE TREETOP! I’m not yelling at you, I’m just adding emphasis to emphasize my passion for the ape land. It makes me sad that I feel the 24 land Jund build is correct, and that our spellbase is too demanding to run a Treetop in the 24 land build. It’s simply the best manland when the mana diversity isn’t a limiting factor. And in this situation, I think you’re perfectly fine running 3x Treetop and 1x Quagmire.
***I still stand by this 100%***
The second is that, man, if my curve is that low and my manabase is that painless, I’d be running the s*** out of some Bobs and ditch the Tasigurs. Ideally, that is, and in my opinion. I know you said you don’t have them anymore and I think there are those out there that would prefer Goyfs #5 and #6 instead of Bob and would gladly rely on Tracker (and the occasional Tasigur ability) for CA instead of Bob. But if you had a choice, I think the right choice would be to rely on Bob AND Tracker for stupid amounts of CA.
Just my $0.02 on an archetype I’m not that familiar with (though I am familiar with the roster).
I liked the Walking Ballista idea. In a similar (yet different) vein of synergistic pinging, I wanted to mention Darkblast. Unfortunately there’s just not enough targets for it to be relevant at the moment.
What cards in the sideboard are practically canonical right now? Like in Jund, for example, 3x Fulminator Mage is almost a given, with few exceptions. What cards in your SB do you never imagine leaving home without in any near future? I’m very unfamiliar with the deck and just haven’t played enough games to have a real idea of what our more-or-less tenured options are.
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Is everyone pretty high on Traverse Abzan right now? I’m thinking hard about giving it a shot. I have all the pieces so it would simply be an investment of time rather than money, but would have the opportunity cost of me not playing other decks (i.e., Jund) during my limited Magic time each week.
Jund is my pet deck, but Traverse Abzan has quite a few things going for it that I enjoy. I love Lingering Souls, I love Souls + Lili/Brutality, and I enjoy toolbox strategies, though there hasn’t been a toolbox deck that I’ve been interested in in a long time. But if you give me a BGx deck with a minor toolbox mechanic, I’m listening. Also, Teeg is a sweet card. Always looking for an excuse to run him in a 75, excepting Bogles.
I was just curious what the Abzan community thought of this current iteration. I know it’s existed for awhile but it seems to have gained some popularity recently. Also, does anyone know where I can watch a good streamer playing the deck? I found a few on YouTube, but they’re old.
Thanks!
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Mind posting a link? I couldn’t find the list in goldfish or top8, but I might’ve just overlooked it. I saw some other lists, but not with Mentor.
BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG
EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
I like the 6x copies of Goyf by way of 2x Tasigur, the Golden Fang. I’d be half tempted to run a single Doran, the Siege Tower just because of all the 4/5’s and */*+1’s, and also because there’s no Bob at 2/1 or Tracker at 3/2.
The removal suite is interesting. Wide coverage. 3x Path, 3x Decay, and 1x Pulse, with 1x Path and 1x Trophy in the SB, and 2x Damnation for the sweeps. I still like Settle the Wreckage right now though. I guess it’d be kind of an obvious play though as this deck isn’t doing much else on the opponent’s turn, especially at 4cmc.
Painful Truths is an interesting card for the grindy MU’s. I play it in EDH but don’t see it much in Modern. Seems decent, actually.
Thoughts?
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EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
No, man, makes perfect sense to me. I’m gonna rework those lands. Like I said, I was already skeptical. I skimmed through that article you wrote up, by the way. Good info. I will say that with so many 1cmc and 2cmc options to play on turn-three, I’m not extremely concerned with having a 94% chance of slamming Lili. A little worse odds than that probably wouldn’t bother me here.
How’d the removal suite look? Any suggestions there? I’m just not sure exactly what I’m going for here. Is this Jund with some minor changes/replacements, or am I truly playing a different archetype? I do know that Bob and Tracker make some stupid CA.
Also, I wish the new Vraska would have been viable. It’d be cool to have a 4cmc Golgari PW.
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EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
Man, I was worried about that, but some of the lists I've seen lately were all really heavy on the Treetop and FoR so I figured it was safe. I'm used to having to be a lot pickier on my manabase in Jund, but thought maybe since Rock was two-colored it was a different story. I'm really not familiar with Field of Ruin, namely how you have to treat it when considering your manabase. I assumed that since you can use it to fix your mana that you could be a little more lax with it in regard to it being colorless. And with its lower curve, I thought maybe Rock could be more content to sit back, fetch a black source with FoR, play a Fatal Push or Inquisition, and pass the turn, setting up a Lili for next turn.
Here's an example list:
https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=20314&d=332895&f=MO
And another:
https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=20165&d=331333&f=MO
But I trust you Delver. I know you like to play it safer than some on the manabases, but I was skeptical of that particular manabase already. I just assumed it was kosher because I saw some lists running it. Surely there's a way for me to jam a second Treetop though?
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EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
4x Dark Confidant
4x Tarmogoyf
3x Scavenging Ooze
3x Tireless Tracker
Instants (8)
4x Fatal Push
4x Assassin's Trophy
Sorceries (9)
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Thoughtseize
2x Collective Brutality
1x Maelstrom Pulse
4x Liliana of the Veil
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
Lands (24)
4x Blooming Marsh
4x Field of Ruin
4x Verdant Catacombs
3x Treetop Village
1x Hissing Quagmire
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2x Overgrown Tomb
3x Swamp
2x Forest
4x Leyline of the Void
3x Fulminator Mage
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Damping Sphere
1x Damnation
1x Languish
1x Flaying Tendrils
1x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
I'm really up in the air on that second Brutality in the main. I feel like it could be better suited as something else, but I'm not certain. I'm pretty pleased with the sideboard, but Cage and Sphere are flex slots in my opinion. It feels really streamlined, and really well equipped for the meta (my LGS seems to be mimicking the pro tour right now). With that said, it's a new archetype for me and I could be way off. I would greatly appreciate some input!
Thanks, as always.
BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG
EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
I’m working on a Rock deck at the moment from Jund, so I’m having to switch my train of thought a little, but I do have a couple of thoughts on this since it’s fresh on my mind.
***The following is inaccurate, according to Delver, and I would trust him more. I saw a couple of lists on MTGO competitive league running this landbase, but maybe they were just lucky to get away with it.***
One is RUN MORE TREETOP! I’m not yelling at you, I’m just adding emphasis to emphasize my passion for the ape land. It makes me sad that I feel the 24 land Jund build is correct, and that our spellbase is too demanding to run a Treetop in the 24 land build. It’s simply the best manland when the mana diversity isn’t a limiting factor. And in this situation, I think you’re perfectly fine running 3x Treetop and 1x Quagmire.
***I still stand by this 100%***
The second is that, man, if my curve is that low and my manabase is that painless, I’d be running the s*** out of some Bobs and ditch the Tasigurs. Ideally, that is, and in my opinion. I know you said you don’t have them anymore and I think there are those out there that would prefer Goyfs #5 and #6 instead of Bob and would gladly rely on Tracker (and the occasional Tasigur ability) for CA instead of Bob. But if you had a choice, I think the right choice would be to rely on Bob AND Tracker for stupid amounts of CA.
Just my $0.02 on an archetype I’m not that familiar with (though I am familiar with the roster).
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EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
What cards in the sideboard are practically canonical right now? Like in Jund, for example, 3x Fulminator Mage is almost a given, with few exceptions. What cards in your SB do you never imagine leaving home without in any near future? I’m very unfamiliar with the deck and just haven’t played enough games to have a real idea of what our more-or-less tenured options are.
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EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
Jund is my pet deck, but Traverse Abzan has quite a few things going for it that I enjoy. I love Lingering Souls, I love Souls + Lili/Brutality, and I enjoy toolbox strategies, though there hasn’t been a toolbox deck that I’ve been interested in in a long time. But if you give me a BGx deck with a minor toolbox mechanic, I’m listening. Also, Teeg is a sweet card. Always looking for an excuse to run him in a 75, excepting Bogles.
I was just curious what the Abzan community thought of this current iteration. I know it’s existed for awhile but it seems to have gained some popularity recently. Also, does anyone know where I can watch a good streamer playing the deck? I found a few on YouTube, but they’re old.
Thanks!
BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG
EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB