Hexdrinker is good because it does double duty in two very different types of match ups.
Vs Tron, Ad Naus,Scapeshift, and other combo, we just want to go fast, and increasing the times a simple 2/1 on turn one is a big boost to the deck.
these match up are normally won or lost around turn 4 and before we see our 3rd land drop.
I don't think another 2 Power 1-drop is gonna solve any of the Problems we have against these decks - because if that would be the case, Kessig Prowler would have been the solution to our Problems.
By the way, I think the current possibilities of Mono Green offer more than enough 1-drops. And by cutting 2- or 3-drops for it, I would guess you cut one of the biggest strengths of the archetype, which is the massive power from Turn 4 on. If you would count on the power of flooding the opponent with 1-drops, I guess Zoo can do this better.
On the other hand take UW control, and Jund, many times the match up comes down to trading 1 for 1 for a few turn as we play creature and they remove them.
Top decking Hexdrinker with 4 lands on turn 8 seems much better as there might be a window where we can go 4 mana 4/4 protection from removal, and the following turn hitting in for 6.
Sorry, but I think topdecking Hexdrinker against UW Control or Jund won't solve anything, because These decks have more than enough ways to remove even a creature with protection from instants (Detention Sphere, Supreme Verdict, Maelstrom Pulse, Liliana, Tarmogoyf, just to Name a few), and we are not able to protect the leveled hexdrinker with Vines or Defense.
And please also Keep in mind, that Level up is Sorcery-Speed, so we might invest three mana in a single turn into Hexdrinker, just to loose our ceature to a Bolt/Path/Push/K-Command/anything we cannot react to.
So TLDR, I think the Card Looks interesting, but I don't think it will add anything meaningful to our pool, since it does not fit our strategy. It basically becomes really relevant at a time where the game should actually be over.
A straight upgrade to Prey Upon, so definitely interesting for those using it so far.
Not sure if this has the potential to outclass Dismember, but I see the possibility that it might be something comparable to the Searing-effects in Burn, where you have removal and extra Damage combined in one Card. I already liked this effect on Hunt the Hunter, which I play in my Sideboard.
Btw, I really like the first look on Horizons, since it looks like it's supporting fair strategies so far. Also, the pseudo-Force being only relevant on non-creature spells is great News for Aggro-strategies like ours.
I don't really like the design, and the Name is totally uninspiring ("what's the easiest choice for a Name so that everybody knows what we are doing here"), but the game design is hopefully not too oppressive.
1) I don't have any fetch lands yet but I am debating picking them up at some point. I did have a couple questions regarding their usage. When is the best time to crack a fetch and is it ideal to grab a shock land with it? Or is it better to grab a basic Forest to mitigate the life loss?
Is your Question directed at the usage in Stompy, or in general? Because this depends heavily on the deck and Manabase you are playing, and on the Situation in the game.
In Stompy, of Course you always grab a Basic, because most lists play Fetches only to trigger Narnam Renegade.
There are a few exceptions that utilize Temple Garden for a White Splash, in this case you would Always get the Shock land as soon as possible, since your Options of deck Manipulation and ensuring you have the Right mana available are limited.
My current deck runs 4X of Pelt Collecter/Experiment One/Dryad Militant. is it best to run 4 Experiment One OR 4 Pelt Collector but not necessarily both? Or would a 4/2 split, in addition to the 4 Dryad Militant be more ideal?
This depends also on your personal preferences, but I agree with phaircaron, more than 4 Evolvers can make for strange starts, where you Play only 1/1s without an early possibility to make them bigger.
And in the direct comparison, Ex1 is definitely the winner for me, since I think Regeneration is more important than Trample, and 2 counters is much more easy to accomplish than 3 (in fact, most of the time the Ex1 will be dead before the second counter).
Personally, I Play 4 Experiments, 4 Dryads (agree with Phaircaron again, they are crucial in the curent meta) and 3 Renegades.
Would anyone recommend investing in the fetch lands now? Or waiting until Modern Horizons? My understanding is that fetches won't be reprinted in Horizons so I certainly don't expect the prices to drop much, if at all, but some of the speculation I've read was that we may get some new form of fetch land. Has anyone read anything like this? Has there been any official word about fetch reprints?
There will definitely be no Reprint of the Fetchlands in Horizons. A Kind of replacement is possible, but I think its not very likely.
Investing in the Fetches (to Play with them, of Course, not as a monetary Investment!) sounds like a reasonable choice to me. No guarantees that they will maintain their value, but since they are relevant in all eternal Formats, they are not likely to loose much of value.
And if you plan to get the Fetches for Stompy, you can start with Wooded Foothills and Windswept Heath, which are the cheapest Fetches you will find.
I run 2 Spheres in the SB, mainly against Tron and Amulet Titan. As far as I am concerned the Sphere is one of our few Outs against Tron, so it should definitely be in the Primer.
I found Phoenix to be close, we have actually quite ok chances of simply racing them. Avatar provides Reach against Phoenix, a lot of Stompy Decks Play Scooze in the Maindeck, and Thing in the Ice does not block Steel Leaf Champion. Also, Dryad Militant has some relevant text here.
But still, the Turn 3 Thing flip or 6 attacking power on Turn 2 thanks to Morphose + Faithless Looting is still scary. I guess our plan here is race at all cost, and have that one removal for the Thing.
Thus far I don’t think anything spoiled is better than just running an extra threat in it’s stead.
Agree! These Cards seem, as mentioned before, as a late game tool, which automatically excludes them from our Primary gameplan. These look more like Sideboard Solutions for grindy Matches, but even for those I think there are better Solutions, e.g. Lead the Stampede.
Thanks for all the thoughts guys! Some more questions based off feedback, no particular order, feel free to only reply to some and thanks again!
I'm usually a pretty big fan of redundancy, and running 2 ofs always throws me off, is 2 removal spells enough to get it done?
Depends on the matchup, but 3-4 in the 75 seems alright. There are games where you just simply can't survice without killing an opposing creature (Death's Shadow, Counter's Company).
Do you mulligan if you don't have a 1-drop creature?
Generally yes, a 1-drop on turn 1 generally applies the pressure you Need. But of Course there are exceptions, e.g. the Hands that involve Treetop Village, where you are Kind of happy to start with a tapped land and then go on with 2- and 3-drops.
Is Tusker preferable to Ooze if you don't anticipate seeing many graveyard decks?
Yes, I guess so. I definitely have lost game before, where the 1 extra damage was missing. Don't get me wrong, Ooze is the strictly better Card in a vaccuum, but there are lots of game where it is just a Grizzly Bears. Personally, I run only 1 in the maindeck, another one in the sideboard. Also, it provides only 1 Devotion.
The Oasis seems a bit strange to me, what's the appeal over another Village/Forest?
Oasis gives you some extra value from your lands in the "lategame" (after turn 4). You will quickly hit the Point in the game where you enter topdeck-mode, and in this case you Need every help you can get. In this case, Oasis is basically an extra pump spell, just like Treetop Village is an extra creature. The lifeloss is hardly relevant.
Would the deck run any banned cards if they were available? Deathrite?
Yes, actually I played 2 Gitaxian Probes, when they were legal - free Information and increased redundancy, great! But the Card is definitely banned for a reason (even in Legacy).
Deathrite Shaman would not help the deck in my opinion, for the same reason that Noble Hierarch is not played in the deck. Mana creatures just do not provide enough extra damage and tempo to be relevant here.
Has Titanic Brawl supplanted Prey Upon for our purposes? Instant speed is very useful to make it an opponent's-turn or mid-combat trick, and we run lots of creatures that get +1/+1 counters and for those creatures it's as cheap as Prey Upon as well.
Good Point, I am actually testing that one right now. Seems good so far, but somehow I forgot that one.
I guess that makes for a fine start. You might want to cut 2 Leatherback Baloths (since 6 3-drops seem to be the Maximum to be aggressive enough) and 2-4 Pelts or Experiments (since more than 4 Evolvers might be too many to use them adequately).
I would suggest "investing" these free Slots in some removal, which is missing completely - Dismember or even Prey Upon could do the Job here. In the Manabase, I have to disagree with Mtgthewary, in my opinion 20 lands is more than enough. 1-2 Treetop Villages might be a good idea there, to ensure a little lategame power.
Also, 2-3 2-drops could be good to smooth out the curve, maybe Kalonian Tusker or even Garruk's Companion or Scavening Ooze (if that's budget-friendly enough).
But as I said, an absolut solid start, just needs a little Tuning. Have a look through the former 10 pages of this Thread, there you'll find some more lists for Inspiration. Good luck!
@Mtgthewary: You might want to be a little more specific when making such suggestions, I guess otherwise this Person might not learn why these changes could be relevant.
Not really fitting this Thread since it is not a Mono Green build, but still a nice Approach on the multi-Color variant.
I also think this list is a great example how you can replace Aspect of Hydra with a decent other mechanic, which provides a nice power boost (in this case, the multi-Color mechanic of Boartusk Liege).
Looking at your list, considering Lightning Bolt is the only red card so far, I would definitely disagree cutting Aspect of Hydra!
You still have all the Green creatures necessary, so I think it is still more than worth it.
Of course, if you decide to go on the "full splash" plan, Aspect might be wrong at some point, but so far I can't see any reason for that. All the cards mentioned do not seem to be a reasonable improvement to the deck, in my opinion. Maybe Atarka's Command might be worth the try, but that also does not hurt your devotion plan.
So putting it together, leave the list as it is. Remember Aspect is one of the key reasons why this deck can be competitive, so you would have to find a really great replacement in Red when you cut it.
The only thing to consider of course would be an upgrade in the Manabase, namely Stomping Grounds and Wooded Foothills. This inclusion would also allow you to play Narnam Renegade, of which I am a big fan. But this is of course also a matter of Budget.
Thx for the report. For which records do you use Lead the Stampede and Dungrove Elder from your sideboard. I guess Lead the Stampede is against mass removal?
If yes, how do you like it?
Yes, Lead the Stampede is against any matchup which requires you to load back up resources at any Point. Mass removal in control is a good example here, or any midrange strategies with a lot of spot removal, like Jund, Abzan or Mardu Pyromancer. Dungrove Elder is actually for similar situations, cause it dodges that removal. Not the mass removal, but still hard to deal with.
I have to admit that I cannot a 100% evaluate these 2 Cards, since I didn't draw them in the Tournament and I also haven't been able to use them in a while. They can be Kind of awkward sometimes, since they often require you to tap out, while not adding that much pressure to the board, compared to the Default Options (e.g. Steel Leaf Champion). But in the type of games you Need them, they both allow you to turn the game around.
Dungrove Elder is especially impressive against any decks that use Path to Exile.
So, still some testing to be done, but so far I do not see better Sideboard Options for the grindy matchups than these two.
I would like to share a Tournament experience (5 rounds, ~30 players) with my beloved archetype, which I had at the Weekend. After a little pause I came back to Stompy after my recent Delver Experiments turned out to be quite complicated.
Not a lot new here - I tested the new Instand-Speed fight spell Titanic Brawl, and added Hooting Mandrills as my 6th "3-drop", since I can Support it with 6 Fetches and it cannot be hit by Spell Queller or Fatal Push, AND doesn't trigger Eidolon.
Matchups, in short:
Game 1: 8 Whack, lost 1-2
Not a lot to say here. The games I lost, I lost to direct Burn to face, just after stabilizing the board. Being on the Play is extremely relevant here, because you can Close the board really fast, and the Goblins won't have any good attacks. Renegade as 2/3 on Turn 1, Geist on defence and Baloth were the Key Factors.
But if you don't draw Feed the Clan, you still loose to triple Goblin Grenade.
Game 2: BW Tokens, won 2-0
I managed to draw more threats than my Opponent drew answers, and he never got to assemble a board. So I could just stomp him twice. Of Course, Steel Leaf Champion is the MVP here. After Boarding Rec Sage against his Enchantments and a Little more protection against his Removal was relevant, also playing around a Settle the Wreckage helped.
Game 3: Burn, lost 1-2
Quite a copy of the 8 Whack match, lost both games on the Draw without drawing Feed the clan, and Ooze was too slow. The Searing Blaze / Searing Blood effects are brutal against our deck. The game on the Play was easy, however - especially since my Opponent left Eidolon in.
Still feels like a very Close matchup, which definitely could have gone either way.
Game 4: Mono Red Prison, lost 1-2
That was hard - my Opponent started with Chalice on 1 AND Bridge, and then slowly killed me with Chandra. Really not a lot I could do about it. Game 2 was decided by my removal for Bridge, and I even won through an Anger of the Gods - threat Management is really important against those type of strategies. In Game 3, he had it all - Chalice, Bridge, and even Spellskite for Blocking and Protection.
I guess this matchup is decided Game 1, whether your Opponent starts with the right Piece of hate. If it is Blood Moon, you are ok, if it's Chalice into Bridge, it can get tough really quick.
Game 5: Bant Spirits, won 2-0
That was not really interesting, my oppponent kept medium Hands, missed his land Drops and got overwhelmed twice. Nice match for me, but no significant learnings here.
Not the result I was hoping for (2-3), but in a way, still an ok day. The Matches I lost were quite close, the Matches I won definitely were not.
To the changes, I cannot say a lot because the data set is still small. I drew Mandrills only once, and at a time were it wasn't relevant in any way. I was however quite impressed with the instant fight spell. It simply gives you a lot more Options inside combat, and the +1/+1-Counter clause is actually not that hard to achieve. I will leave it in as a 1-of and see how that feels.
On future tests, I am planning to cut Ooze and the 6th 3-drop from the main, and maybe add 2 more 2-drops to gain a little more tempo. Although my first Impression was negative, I might give Kraul Harpooner a second Chance. In my LGS, Spirits is quite a thing at the Moment, and I am also looking at Crackling Drake here.
No plans to implement a splash Color so far. To me, the deck feels good the way it is.
To the discussion about Dryad Militant, I can a 100% confirm the Card is unbelievably good against Dredge. In testing, I had my Opponent several times concede against a turn 1 Dryad. It basically shuts off that many mechanics inside the deck, that the Opponent is left with just the creature part of the deck, which just isn't that impressive against our board.
In my experience, anything regarding non-interactive Combo can be really hard for this deck, because we do not have the Tools to interact with These type of decks, and we are on average a turn slower than decks like burn or Bushwhacker Zoo.
So decks like Grishoalbrand, Counters Company, Infect and Elves are really hard. Storm and Dredge are an exception, Dryad Militant and Scavenging Ooze allow us to interact with the graveyard. Ad Nauseam is also not that bad, because they Need a Little more time to go off.
Quite good Matchups are Midrange Decks, especially Mardu Pyromancer, because our protection spells and Cards like Strangleroot Geist let us push through their removal, and Steel Leaf Champion ignores their chump blockers. Other Aggro variants can be good too, since they are not able to build up a board as big as we can. So if we survive the first waves of decks like Burn, Zoo and maybe Humans, we are able to outclass their creatures and push through their Board with Trample and Aspect.
Control can actually be favorable, our protection spells and the Dryad against Snapcaster really help us out here. Also the Geist, which trades 2 for 1. I've seen multiple Control Players Play Jace on Turn 4 and then die on the next attack. So, Planeswalkers can be a Problem, but more in a way that they give your Opponent a way back into the game while stabilizing. There is no Planeswalker which can handle our whole board at once, and sometimes we are even able to ignore them.
Terminus is actually a Problem, just like Settle the Wreckage. The only Chance here is to Play around it, and to not commit to much material to the board. I guess it's a matter of experience. But These Cards made our matchup definitely harder.
So far, I can't think of that many pitfalls to avoid. Here it would help to see the list you want to start with.
Just as the primer suggests, you should avoid anything above three CMC, which is just too slow. And there are always People suggesting Nykthos and a Devotion plan for the deck, which is simply nonsense for this strategy.
And of Course there is the playstyle which you just have to learn - Sequencing and Role assessment are the Key factors.
I would love to see your first attempt on a list, do you have any ideas so far?