Using the ideas on this thead, I have come up with the following semi-budget list. Any feedback welcome, this is first built from mostly scratch EDH deck, so feedback really welcome. The draw package is a bit suspect I think, and I am not in love with Scroll Rack in the list, it is a powerful card overall, but maybe Crystal Ball is a better bet since there is a lack of shuffle effects (or something else in the slot of different functon0.
Another thing is the ramp package. I am not sure if I should have 2cmc + 4cmc ramp spells or 2cmc + 3cmc ramp spells. The curve have a huge wall at 5cmc (due The Ur-Dragon, much of the 6 has moved to 5). Zendikar Resurgent is also pretty strong, but I am not sure at 7cmc.
everyone keeps saying that dragons are slow but i have only run into that issue once. Most games i end up casting many dragons and have a nice board state with them. Even to the point were i am getting ganged up on due to my army. Eliminating players in one foul swoop. Even getting to point where I am hard casting 2 or 3 dragons a turn with mana left over.
What type of ramp do you use? Care to share a list?
Well i don't have time or a full list right now but I only use 1 ramp spell. Exploration
However Mirari's wake does help and I have a bunch of reduction (Urza's incubator for example) (Potentially i have have teh cost reduced by (i think) 7
My mana base is full of ABUs, Shocks, Fetches and a few utility lands) Ruination and back to basics are not played in my meta, Blood moon is but not often, And any other lad wipe takes out all lands not just non basics so playing a basic or non basic would not change anything. (plus blood moon doe snot hinder my deck as much as one would assume given my red dragons and colorless stuff.
Only 1 ramp spell? Interesting. I guess your mana base does the fixing and the cost reducers are "ramp." Lots of card draw?
How about exploiting the Herald's Horn but with other stronger effects as well. Some permanent based options for manipulating the top deck are Sensei's Diving Top, Scroll Rack, Crystal Ball and Crown of Convergence. The first two are pretty strong by themselves, but even stronger with shuffle effects (minimum of 15 in the deck). The second two can be self powered even without effects, which is very nice and makes for less variance, but at the cost of some power.
There are also a number of other permanent based cards that can exploit such manipulation. Into the Wilds, Call of the Wild, Lurking Predators, Druidic Satchel, Descendants' Path and the Horn among others. These seem to make a powerful combination, but would naked ramp and card draw be stronger overall? Is this idea too cute?
Board state, tempo, card selection and mana advantage. Seems rather strong. Has anyone tried such a subtheme in a deck? How did it work?
I'd always run Dragonlord Kolaghan long before Karrthus because the sight of blue makes me cringe when I have Karrthus on the field for a number of reasons.
That said I did say I am thinking about adding a little bit of blink to my deck...
On the block for cards to evaluate that have not been mentioned so far (mostly budget), need to consider cc and power level:
[How do I format card links?]
Sensei's Diving Top- Topdeck manipulation
Scroll Rack- Topdeck/Hand manipulation
Crown of Convergence- Topdeck manipulation *Does not require shuffling, self powered. Cheap pseudo Sylvan Library. Nasty with Lurking Predators.
Death of Glory- Budget mass rez
Twilight's Call- Buget mass rez
Into the Wilds- Topdeck manipulation payoff- 38% self effective and but down as lands are fetched. (Maybe Druidic Satchel better as it is 100%).
Impromptu Raid- Another topdeck manipulation payoff.
Siege Dragon- Strong attack trigger. ETB is blah
Warmonger Hellkite- Chaos and board wide shenganigans
Hoarding Dragon- Dragon + Tutor
Harbinger of the Hunt- Lower cc, nice sweeper.
Dragon Roost- Expensive, but reliable, repeatable dragon Generation. Less suspect to removal.
Strionic Resonator- Lots of triggered abilities to copy
Vedalken Orrery- Flash for everything
Eerie Interlude- budget Ghostway
Harbinger of the Hunt- Lower cc, nice sweeper.
Fires of Yavimaya- More haste
Consume the Meek- Sweeper
Signal the Clans- Budget tutor
Calming Verse- Sweet one sided enchantment mass removal. Cleansing Mediation and Spring Cleanings also considered. Merciless eviction may the most flexible though.
Mind Unbound- maybe too expensive, but a nice draw spell. Mystic Remora instead? The blue Siege is also nice, but I would prefer not to loot if I can draw.
Call to the Kindred- Budget Descendant's Path, but an aura.
Phyrexian Arena- Draw
Greed- More draw!
Too many ideas, and not enough slots! Need to streamline. Feedback welcome.
Living Death and Patriach's Bidding are a bit hard to acquire over here, so I have been looking for budget alternatives. Twilight's Call and Death or Glory looks promising as budget replacements. Balthor the Defiled is another option (not a dragon though). Any other budget options?
Mana dorks for fast mana and Survival of the Fittest and Evolutionary Leap. Yeh or neh?
Land Tax/ Weathered Wayfarer + Scroll Rack +/- Burgeoning Yeh or neh?
Dragon Arch has shown to be quite instant speed potent, so much so that card draw needs to keep up.
Some cards I have on hand that possibly could be helpful if pushing for a turn 3 threat.
Cheers
Another thing is the ramp package. I am not sure if I should have 2cmc + 4cmc ramp spells or 2cmc + 3cmc ramp spells. The curve have a huge wall at 5cmc (due The Ur-Dragon, much of the 6 has moved to 5). Zendikar Resurgent is also pretty strong, but I am not sure at 7cmc.
Cheers
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/twilight-dragons/
Only 1 ramp spell? Interesting. I guess your mana base does the fixing and the cost reducers are "ramp." Lots of card draw?
There are also a number of other permanent based cards that can exploit such manipulation. Into the Wilds, Call of the Wild, Lurking Predators, Druidic Satchel, Descendants' Path and the Horn among others. These seem to make a powerful combination, but would naked ramp and card draw be stronger overall? Is this idea too cute?
Board state, tempo, card selection and mana advantage. Seems rather strong. Has anyone tried such a subtheme in a deck? How did it work?
Great analysis. Really helps in consider which additions and purchases.
[How do I format card links?]
Sensei's Diving Top- Topdeck manipulation
Scroll Rack- Topdeck/Hand manipulation
Crown of Convergence- Topdeck manipulation *Does not require shuffling, self powered. Cheap pseudo Sylvan Library. Nasty with Lurking Predators.
Death of Glory- Budget mass rez
Twilight's Call- Buget mass rez
Into the Wilds- Topdeck manipulation payoff- 38% self effective and but down as lands are fetched. (Maybe Druidic Satchel better as it is 100%).
Impromptu Raid- Another topdeck manipulation payoff.
Siege Dragon- Strong attack trigger. ETB is blah
Warmonger Hellkite- Chaos and board wide shenganigans
Hoarding Dragon- Dragon + Tutor
Harbinger of the Hunt- Lower cc, nice sweeper.
Dragon Roost- Expensive, but reliable, repeatable dragon Generation. Less suspect to removal.
Strionic Resonator- Lots of triggered abilities to copy
Vedalken Orrery- Flash for everything
Eerie Interlude- budget Ghostway
Harbinger of the Hunt- Lower cc, nice sweeper.
Fires of Yavimaya- More haste
Consume the Meek- Sweeper
Signal the Clans- Budget tutor
Calming Verse- Sweet one sided enchantment mass removal. Cleansing Mediation and Spring Cleanings also considered. Merciless eviction may the most flexible though.
Mind Unbound- maybe too expensive, but a nice draw spell. Mystic Remora instead? The blue Siege is also nice, but I would prefer not to loot if I can draw.
Call to the Kindred- Budget Descendant's Path, but an aura.
Phyrexian Arena- Draw
Greed- More draw!
Too many ideas, and not enough slots! Need to streamline. Feedback welcome.