Anyway thought on the game, I really enjoyed this one. It was a really cool player list and despite all the replacements I felt the game stayed fun and active throughout. So thanks to everyone for that.
On the scum side serious props to all three players. QH had me fooled for a long time and did a really good job helping get the Wheat mislynch rolling. Also would have had me fooled with the fake claim if a teammate hadn't bussed and pointed out it didn't make sense!
Proph you replaced into a scum slot that was almost lynched and survived to end game. The way you kept challenging people to explain their scum/POE reads on you and show their reasons took guts and I think paid dividends. Also the bus between you and QH was well done and had me drinking a lot of wine over it.
Shadow... Man... I got completely snowed. I correctly identified the dichotomy D2 and just ignored it... And I'd read and referenced Overwatch so you know, I just shouldn't have done that. I theoretically had learned that lesson, but nope. I just got in a tunnel on AG and never got out of it. Even after dying, and that let me delude myself into thinking Shadow was town. Anyway he played the neighbor chats really well and fooled me almost completely.
On the town side it was a pleasure playing with you guys and gals. I'm sorry I was wrong about almost everything until it was too late and convincing in my wrongness...
It was an absolute pleasure playing with you guys and I hope to again. Props to Shinichi and Terry in particular for bringing the effort. You guys put in so much work and we came so close.
Reading the scum chat is delighful. You guys worked so hard and earned this. Haven't finished yet but I love this quote from Proph
Quote from Proph »
either way i think that Day went really well
everyone hates each other
JT is off in his own little conspiracy world
Vaimes is disengaged, but has a shot at solving entire game
Grape is distracted by Shinichi
So regarding the game break with Grapefruit, I tried to handle it in a professional but also townie way. If I had just idled by and let grapefruit take heat when I would have known him to be town, it would have looked really bad for me. I hope no one thinks I tried to abuse the situation, and I truly apologize if you feel I did. I didn't share my info with my scum buddies.
I want to add on that I'm really sorry that it happened at all, and when I realized what I did I pushed for Cantrip to review and decide if he should mod kill my slot. I feel really awful about the whole situation because I value game integrity highly and am frustrated that I broke one of the keys rules that makes mafia work. I'll have thoughts on the game itself later, but I feel horrible that I broke a cardinal rule and am relieved the scum team won as a result.
And I think Shadow handled it as well as could be handled. It was a horrible spot to be put into and I'm sorry to everyone.
So regarding the game break with Grapefruit, I tried to handle it in a professional but also townie way. If I had just idled by and let grapefruit take heat when I would have known him to be town, it would have looked really bad for me. I hope no one thinks I tried to abuse the situation, and I truly apologize if you feel I did. I didn't share my info with my scum buddies.
I want to add on that I'm really sorry that it happened at all, and when I realized what I did I pushed for Cantrip to review and decide if he should mod kill my slot. I feel really awful about the whole situation because I value game integrity highly and am frustrated that I broke one of the keys rules that makes mafia work. I'll have thoughts on the game itself later, but I feel horrible that I broke a cardinal rule and am relieved the scum team won as a result.
I like his WIM down at the end and he's had a solid tonally town day today but it's just easier for me to make sense of the game with him as scum and Proph as town. All my gut instincts are saying this is the wrong thing to vote and that QH is scum but my brain is telling me this makes the most sense.
The only thing right now (that I can think of) that bothers me about Proph is how hard he was pushing QH from nearly the beginning of the game. Especially regarding pushing QH to claim. I have weird feeling that he knew QH's role and how significant it'd be for him to claim.
Can you point to a post trying to get him to claim? I didn't come across that in my decidedly non comprehensive ISO.
Is it bad that I'm kind of town reading both LnGrrrR and RE for going down this rabbit hole when we're less than 24 hours from the deadline and have a clear dichotomy? Part of me thinks it's a great read and the other part of me is screaming that it's stupid an NAI.
I had you as leaning scum based solely on Kpaca's play. I wasn't interacting with you because I thought you were playing reasonably townie at the time and didn't have any opinions that I strongly disagreed with. So I didn't have any reason to. As of right now, I'm pretty sure you vs QH is T/S but I don't have a firm enough grasp on which is which. But in reading it I just don't think that is a t/t fight.
So you had me as leaning scum because of kpaca's play.. but didn't take the thing to re-evaluate your read or challenge it when I replaced in? It feels weird to me that you wouldn't change a read on my slot because I replaced in.
Do you think Quickhoodies and AG could be scum together? They're both so inactive that it's really hard to tell. :x
Also if you're town, Grape, then who do you think is the scum on the Shinichi wagon? It might just be shadow tbh but I really want to check up on his meta. Or maybe JT but I still can't fathom the trap attempt coming from scum.
Let's talk about this post a little bit.
First off his thesis on not changing a read on a new player is not something I agree completely with. Yes you should have an open mind, but you can't ignore the previous player's behavior. And Kpaca's interactions with Shinichi looked bad at the time and look bad in retrospect. So there is always going to be suspicion on this slot regardless of Proph's play.
And then we have the last part. Does that not set off alarm bells for anyone else now that we can see Proph and Terry voting QH together without a hammer having come through?
It goes back to the problem of finding a team that works with those two as scum but it just kind of adds up to me.
So I'm at a dilemma of what's worse hints of an agenda or lack of consistency and real reads. I'm done with my ISO for now just need to go think on this Proph vs QH problem for a bit.
I have no idea how Shinichi is arriving at his reads. His progression on Grapefruit is nonexistent and I have no idea how he went from "Vaimes and Grapefruit are town" to "Grapefruit I'm still iffy about, always cautious about this slot". I don't think he actually believes his reads.
Plus his backtrack on Vaimes feels like he is trying to keep lynch options open.
Quote from Shinichi »
Excuse me for not knowing the exact number of players and there names. Also when did i become connected to WG + Prop. Also i have no such faction night chat lol, mab honestly i wish i could get lynched just to see your face when i flip town. Sadly i rather that not happen though.
This is the post that is kind of making me second guess this read because this is a pretty tonally town post, but I can't ignore the above. It feels like Shinichi is making stuff up along the way.
While this is fakeable this feels like a real read and progression on Shinichi. I can buy town!Proph going through this line of thought very easily.
Proph ISO break. Real talk time my read on Shadow has always been expressed as slightly stronger than it is. I'm very aware of his pocketing prowess and was trying to make him think my town read on him was strong so I'd live longer. I do stand by my take that I never lynch him before F3 but once it gets there I'd be considering him completely without bias.
I'm confused.
Confused about what? I have been assuming the scum team has a strongman this whole time if it's my worry about dying.
Proph ISO break. Real talk time my read on Shadow has always been expressed as slightly stronger than it is. I'm very aware of his pocketing prowess and was trying to make him think my town read on him was strong so I'd live longer. I do stand by my take that I never lynch him before F3 but once it gets there I'd be considering him completely without bias.
And given that I need to take a serious look at Proph/Shadow/Terry as a possibility. Fortunately Proph's ISO is making that terrifying option seem not real. Proph moves Shadow down his reads list a couple of times based on very little and doesn't try to earn credit for it. Doesn't feel like a natural scum buddy read to me. So I think I'm going to dismiss that nightmare scenario after being terrified of it ever since QH wasn't hammered with Proph and Terry voting for him.
This is really going to come down to which I find scummier hints and whiffs of a scum aligned agenda or wildly inconsistent reads that don't make sense to me.
Proph was leaning on the idea that AG could be scum a lot early on. Something to keep in mind.
I really like this post and get town vibes from it.
This is also a good post even if it's coming from a place of self defense towards EL. Replacing into a scum read slot is always stressful and frustrating so I get it here.
I think Vaimes is town. Ditto with Grapefruit and JT.
RE.. I haven't had the time to reread and look over but the post I quoted feels fairly genuine and I do not really think that she is scum? I'm just not a fan of how the thread consensus has turned against her when I don't really recall her doing anything scummy. I want to take the time and read her ISO but I am unsure if I will be able to tonight. Regardless, I think she has a couple of genuine posts in response to herself being pressured and I do not really want her to be the lynch Today.
shadow has noticeably dropped off Today but I sort of liked his catch-up post since he mind-melded what I was thinking about JT. The neighborizer claim does not really change my read on him in any fashion. Unwilling to lynch Today but I want him to produce more content soon.
Wheat I am also unwilling to lynch Today but what I'm clearing off of him (belief in thinking that Vaimes is scum) is kind of thin. I still think he is town but I have some paranoia vibes since I know Wheat is good as scum and has certainly pocketed me before.
Shinichi/Mindreaver-slot/AG/Quickhoodies is where I think 1-2 of the scum are assuming my reads aren't completely off the deep end, with a caveat that I do not think that Shinichi/AG are both scum together. Just mostly PoE and such - I'll try to explain these later, but I wouldn't really shed a tear if any of these people were lynched Today.
So here is his updated readlist after his one upon joining. He's moved Terry, RE, and Wheat up, dropped Shin and Shadow. The paranoid part of me says this evolution makes perfect sense if he's scum with Terry and one of LnGrrrR/RE. Dropping Shinichi down once he realizes that he's mislynchable and getting some white knight credit in, elevating his buddy once it's safe to do so. And all of this fits in with the early Kpaca read on Shinich that has never made any sense at all.
A slight additional red flag is how many of his reads are "I don't think they can fake that as scum reads" it's coming from a position of assuming they are town in a way.
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On the scum side serious props to all three players. QH had me fooled for a long time and did a really good job helping get the Wheat mislynch rolling. Also would have had me fooled with the fake claim if a teammate hadn't bussed and pointed out it didn't make sense!
Proph you replaced into a scum slot that was almost lynched and survived to end game. The way you kept challenging people to explain their scum/POE reads on you and show their reasons took guts and I think paid dividends. Also the bus between you and QH was well done and had me drinking a lot of wine over it.
Shadow... Man... I got completely snowed. I correctly identified the dichotomy D2 and just ignored it... And I'd read and referenced Overwatch so you know, I just shouldn't have done that. I theoretically had learned that lesson, but nope. I just got in a tunnel on AG and never got out of it. Even after dying, and that let me delude myself into thinking Shadow was town. Anyway he played the neighbor chats really well and fooled me almost completely.
On the town side it was a pleasure playing with you guys and gals. I'm sorry I was wrong about almost everything until it was too late and convincing in my wrongness...
It was an absolute pleasure playing with you guys and I hope to again. Props to Shinichi and Terry in particular for bringing the effort. You guys put in so much work and we came so close.
Let him win as a wolf when he replaced into a scummy slot that was one vote away from being lynched D1... Great shame indeed.
Just about sums it up...
And I think Shadow handled it as well as could be handled. It was a horrible spot to be put into and I'm sorry to everyone.
I want to add on that I'm really sorry that it happened at all, and when I realized what I did I pushed for Cantrip to review and decide if he should mod kill my slot. I feel really awful about the whole situation because I value game integrity highly and am frustrated that I broke one of the keys rules that makes mafia work. I'll have thoughts on the game itself later, but I feel horrible that I broke a cardinal rule and am relieved the scum team won as a result.
I like his WIM down at the end and he's had a solid tonally town day today but it's just easier for me to make sense of the game with him as scum and Proph as town. All my gut instincts are saying this is the wrong thing to vote and that QH is scum but my brain is telling me this makes the most sense.
I completely agree and it's why I was focused on teams with you in them.
Can you point to a post trying to get him to claim? I didn't come across that in my decidedly non comprehensive ISO.
Let's talk about this post a little bit.
First off his thesis on not changing a read on a new player is not something I agree completely with. Yes you should have an open mind, but you can't ignore the previous player's behavior. And Kpaca's interactions with Shinichi looked bad at the time and look bad in retrospect. So there is always going to be suspicion on this slot regardless of Proph's play.
And then we have the last part. Does that not set off alarm bells for anyone else now that we can see Proph and Terry voting QH together without a hammer having come through?
It goes back to the problem of finding a team that works with those two as scum but it just kind of adds up to me.
So I'm at a dilemma of what's worse hints of an agenda or lack of consistency and real reads. I'm done with my ISO for now just need to go think on this Proph vs QH problem for a bit.
While this is fakeable this feels like a real read and progression on Shinichi. I can buy town!Proph going through this line of thought very easily.
Confused about what? I have been assuming the scum team has a strongman this whole time if it's my worry about dying.
And given that I need to take a serious look at Proph/Shadow/Terry as a possibility. Fortunately Proph's ISO is making that terrifying option seem not real. Proph moves Shadow down his reads list a couple of times based on very little and doesn't try to earn credit for it. Doesn't feel like a natural scum buddy read to me. So I think I'm going to dismiss that nightmare scenario after being terrified of it ever since QH wasn't hammered with Proph and Terry voting for him.
Proph was leaning on the idea that AG could be scum a lot early on. Something to keep in mind.
Proph backing the idea that RE is town for the vanilla claim.
I really like this post and get town vibes from it.
This is also a good post even if it's coming from a place of self defense towards EL. Replacing into a scum read slot is always stressful and frustrating so I get it here.
So here is his updated readlist after his one upon joining. He's moved Terry, RE, and Wheat up, dropped Shin and Shadow. The paranoid part of me says this evolution makes perfect sense if he's scum with Terry and one of LnGrrrR/RE. Dropping Shinichi down once he realizes that he's mislynchable and getting some white knight credit in, elevating his buddy once it's safe to do so. And all of this fits in with the early Kpaca read on Shinich that has never made any sense at all.
A slight additional red flag is how many of his reads are "I don't think they can fake that as scum reads" it's coming from a position of assuming they are town in a way.