I went to a 3/1 split of Liliana per Delver’s list, and it’s been working fine so far. It kind of seems like heresy, but sometimes you gotta shake things up a little. I’m running that MB LtLH alongside my MB Lavaman and it’s been pretty great against creature decks. I have a lot of ways to ping ‘em. I do feel a little weak to Control though, having dropped to 3x BBE and 3x LotV.
In all reality, Liliana of the Veil is just not good against the top three decks in the format right now. I don’t think it hurts to let The Last Hope share just a little bit of the spotlight while the meta looks like this.
I thought about that heresy as well, but I fell she's not great against the top tiers. I'll test this split this week and see how it goes.
Also I were on 3 copies of BBE too, it felt nice and I did not had clunky hands that often, but going down to 3 LoTV seems that I need to go back with 4 BBEs.
What do you all think about going down to three copies of LoTV and split it with a copy of LtLH?
I've been going down to two or even zero copies of liliana of the veil a lot of times now..and the last hope always were good on main deck. She deals with a lot of x/1s and her minus is pure value sometimes.
It's the Rock. There's not much to say about it. I will say he is to Rock what Reid Duke is to Jund so don't be alarmed if you don't have the same success he does with it.
Agree!
I'm going to test the list above for my next PPTQ:
I've been playing E-Tron, I would heavily advise against boarding in Fulminator mages against the deck, it's rarely good, the deck is playing 24 lands, 4 maps, 2 mind stones and 4 matter reshapers, you have to be a heavily dedicated land hate deck to disrupt its mana, which basically means its really only Ponza, DnT and 8 sea's merfolk decks which can disrupt it's mana.
The best way to beating E-tron is getting a big ass Goyf out with LOTV and holding mana up for a terminate if they try to thought-knot/smash LOTV.
Topdecking a mage is going to be extremely awful against them in any sort of grind game, jund needs a quick, aggressive and efficient hand.
Anoter PPTQ thi saturday with 140 players (yeah, modern is pretty popular around here) with 8 rounds of swiss.
I went 3-3 drop, after opening 2-0 against Grixis DS and some sort of MBC devotion, then I lost 1-2 against Eldrazi Tron, gosh..this deck is such a pain for us to beat, still it's a little more manageable then classic Tron.
I won 2-0 against Merfolk, then lost 0-2 against eldrazi again, this time it were the bant version.
Round 6 I've played against affinity and lost 1-2. Did nothing relevant on both games I've lost.
Some notes: Jund felt great. I'm very confortable playing with it, even tough it's very rough to play against any sort of Eldrazi deck.
For reference, this is the list that I've played with.
Some notes from my list:
Claim // Fame won me two games. It felt great every time i've casted it.
23 lands again. Flooded just once and missed land drop just once.
Again, fulminator mage were pretty mediocre. He's leaving my board entirelely.
Liliana, the Last Hope it's such a powerful walker after g1 and g2 against some strategies. Probably I'll add another copy.
Damnation and EE felt horrible all day long. Thinking to ditch damnation at least, don't know what to add though.
Leyline of the Void felt awkward this time around..I'm going back to Nihil Spellbomb for the next PPTQ.
No bolt, this is a strange move..but I were siding them out too often. 4 pushs and 4 terminates felt straight enough and dealt with almost every threat, did not miss bolt at all.
Huntmaster it's great, but I'm thinking to go back with Kalitas..because he helps more against Grixis DS and Eldrazi variations i believe.
I find myself increasingly at a loss as to why I should still have Fulminators in my 75. Tron is gone and any Scapeshift player worth his salt plays around them anyway.
ETron doesn't give a ***** about them, they're slow against Affinity (which I'm not worried about to begin with), they're dead against Dredge and occasionally alright against Burn. That doesn't warrant three slots, in my opinion. Am I supposed to just bring them in for rogue Townships?
Why do you guys still play them?
I think exactly like you mate.
I've already cut one of them, and I'll probably going to cut the remaining 2.
The only match that he seems a bit better imo is against Grixis DS, which operates on low land..even then..i'm not totally sold.
Yesterday I went to a modern PPTQ with 80 players and a total of 4K (approximetly 1.9 USD), I've opened up 4-0, but then I lost to Storm, Grixis DS and Jeskai control to miss any chance of prizing and the top 8 itself.
This is were all the matchs I've played:
RG TitanShift - Won 2-0
Abzan - Won 2-0
Grixis DS - Won 2-0
Affinity - Won 2-0
Storm - Loss 0-2 (Won the whole thing)
Grixis DS - Loss 1-2
Jeskai Flash - Loss 0-2
This is a brief report, I don't remember everything..
R1 - RG TitanShift: G1 opp mulled to 6 on the play and I managed to discard T1, Goyf T2, discard T3 and LotV on T4.
G2 were pretty much the same, except that on T3 I played a LotV and on T5, a fulminator backed up by a terminate sealed the deal.
R2 - Abzan: Opp never saw Lingering Souls on both games. Resources traded and my draws were better. Nothing special here.
R3 - Grixis DS: This were a walk in the park to say so, we traded resources and Bob plus LotV sealed the deal. Observation here: This is a match that we must be careful, trade resources wisely and cash in on every mistaked/bad decision the opp make.
R4 - Affinity: With 2 Kommand main board and packed with a lot removal, I've managed to navigate G1 through the win.
G2 my opponent misscalculated the damage with Ravager and I had an active Scooze to eat the 2 creatures he had previsously sacrified for Ravager. He were dead on board next turn.
R5 - Storm: Lost both games. On G1 opponent got lucky drawing the third baral to going off, after me killing both of it.
On G2 I've never saw my hate cards. But I believe I've missplayed. On turn 5 he had a Goblin Electromancer on play, three cards in hand which were 2 lands and a Past in Flames..I've casted Collective Brutality, going for the goblin and the Past in Flames, when I should escalate again to drain 2.
A couple of turns later, he comboed off with the goblins with storm count on 10. I had an Scooze and bob to block and gain me a couple of life, killed 4 of with removal and with LotV, eventually I had 4 life, a scooze to block one of the 5 tokens, this is were that missplayed enters. If I had drained him, I could kill one token, take 4 going down to 2 and draw into Huntmaster, stabilize the board and even have an active LotV. What do you guys think of it? Missplayed because I did not thought of that line of play on that turn?
R6 - Grixis DS: On G1 we traded resources as supposed, but LotV is THE card against them. She single handed won that match.
G2 and G3, his draws were better than mine and I've lost both games to a tasigur.
R7 - Jeskai Control: We traded resources early on but I flooded pretty badly on both games.
The event were packed with RG Valakut variants, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity and Grixis DS.
A few notes from this list:
23 Lands were the optimal number of lands. Never missed the 23th or the 3rd Ravine.
3-3 split on the discards, which paid off against Grixis DS and RG Valakut.
No finks on board, and I missed him there.
3 CBs is a lot. Sided all of the in against Storm only.
Big Game Hunter is a decent tech. Never casted him, but every match I brought him in, I felt safe with one more removal that could got Kommaned back to my hand.
2 Bolts were sided out very often. Probably going to remove them entirely. It's just bad nowadays. 4 Pushs and 4 Terminates are better and safe I believe.
That's it! Thanks for your reading and sry about grammar mistakes.
I like were this is going.
Every since I saw Williy's Abzan Traverse list, I've beem wanting to test it on a Jund shell.
I do have a question though, is Grim Flayer worth it? I mean he's a great beater on delirium enable, but when it's off, he's just not that good..In the Abzan shell he's better because Lingering Souls, you can ditch them to the bin and still generate a lot of value.
Have you guys considered something else? Perhaps the "stock" creature setup with 4 Goyfs, 4 Bobs and 3 Scoozes.
Claim//Fame it's interesting for sure. I'm going to start testing 1 or 2 copies of it. It can recur any 2 drop we currently have and can even give haste for any of them or even and even give haste for any new threat...
What has your removal suite in the main deck been? right now I'm on 4 Fatal Push, 3 Terminate, 1 Abrupt Decay, 2 Kolaghan's Command and 1 Maelstrom Pulse. Seems to have worked fine, but I do have the 4th Terminate, a 2nd Maelstrom Pulse, and a 3rd K-ommand in the side. The 4th Terminate comes in fairly frequently.
I'm currently on 3 Push, 2 Bolt, 2 AD, 1 Pulse, 1 Kommand, 4 Terminate, 3 LotV, 1 Lavamancer. I'm likely removing the Lavamancer for the 4th Push this week as the number of Counter Company decks is lowering steadily. My side has the 2nd pulse and kommand for sure though. The main thing I realized was any game in which Death Shadow sticks a Delve creature and I don't have the immediate removal, I lost. Since adding in #4, I've never had any issues getting them off the board quickly and it's resulted in a lot better success against those decks. Again, the other way they beat you is by having better topdecks with fewer lands and I've been really big on Tireless Tracker drawing me not only out of those holes but then they must find a Push+revolt or terminate to get rid of it or they lose.
I've been wanting to play with him..but he's not a 3 drop..but fells more like a virtual 4 drop..
He shines mid and late in the game though..and also a mana sink for those excessive land drops..
Yes he is essentially a 4 drop that let's you leave open 1 cmc removal. Fits the Chandra CA slot. That is what Tasigur is supposed to fill. Sure Tasigur can come down on turn 2 on an ideal draw but is also 4 cmc to "draw a card of your opponents choice" from your yard. I don't think that is good enough IMO, especially at the risk of Bob hitting you for 6. Essentially it's the same flex spot though and totally a preference choice. You want that slot to be a threat that generates CA as a 1x in your deck. Chandra, Tasigur and Tracker are all good options.
Understood mate. Do you mind sharing your complete set up?
Tks!
I'm with Reid and others, I haven't liked her too much. Like she is a powerful planeswalker but never feels great in the MD. Love her out of the side for attrition matchups though. For folks going Tasigur, try Tireless Tracker instead. Doesn't murder you off a Bob flip, fits your gameplan and actively draws you a million cards for no real investment unlike Tasigur. The card has been straight gas for me.
I've also been on 4 Terminates for a bit now. It may seem excessive but between the DS matchup and Eldrazi Tron, I never want to not have multiples of Terminate or LotV in hand to deal with their big fatties that don't die to Push.
I've been wanting to play with him..but he's not a 3 drop..but fells more like a virtual 4 drop..
He shines mid and late in the game though..and also a mana sink for those excessive land drops..
Yeah Bob is the only isse with Tasigur. If there was not this problem, I would also play 1-2 copies for sure. But I fear the times you reveal Tasigur to bob do matter statistically. And to note, I do consider revealing Tasigur to Bob a lost game pretty much (in a relevent timeframe of course, if you reveal it to bob when you are miles ahead doesn't count)
What I did thought of though was playing Tasigur SB. That way it wouldn't matter for Burn, as Tasigur and Bob won't be in the deck ever at the same time against Burn. You loose the card g1 though, which is still a bummer.
This is a big reason for me too, even tough i'll test, start with a single one and see how it goes from there.
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I thought about that heresy as well, but I fell she's not great against the top tiers. I'll test this split this week and see how it goes.
Also I were on 3 copies of BBE too, it felt nice and I did not had clunky hands that often, but going down to 3 LoTV seems that I need to go back with 4 BBEs.
This is what I have lined up.
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Bloodbraid Elf
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Fatal Push
2 Terminate
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
2 Forest
3 Raging Ravine
1 Twilight Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Damping Sphere
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Kitchen Finks
2 Collective Brutality
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Fulminator Mage
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Golgari Charm
UR Twin - RIP
What do you all think about going down to three copies of LoTV and split it with a copy of LtLH?
I've been going down to two or even zero copies of liliana of the veil a lot of times now..and the last hope always were good on main deck. She deals with a lot of x/1s and her minus is pure value sometimes.
UR Twin - RIP
4 Dark Confidant
3 Scavenging Ooze
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Terminate
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Fatal Push
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Lightning Bolt
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
3 Raging Ravine
2 Blooming Marsh
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Grim Lavamancer
2 Fulminator Mage
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Collective Brutality
1 Damnation
Tks!
UR Twin - RIP
Agree!
I'm going to test the list above for my next PPTQ:
4 Dark Confidant
3 Scavenging Ooze
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Tireless Tracker
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Terminate
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Fatal Push
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
1 Claim // Fame
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Raging Ravine
2 Blooming Marsh
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Grim Lavamancer
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Collective Brutality
1 Shatterstorm
1 Thoughtseize
UR Twin - RIP
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=115097
what do you guys think of it?
UR Twin - RIP
Totally agree with you!
UR Twin - RIP
I went 3-3 drop, after opening 2-0 against Grixis DS and some sort of MBC devotion, then I lost 1-2 against Eldrazi Tron, gosh..this deck is such a pain for us to beat, still it's a little more manageable then classic Tron.
I won 2-0 against Merfolk, then lost 0-2 against eldrazi again, this time it were the bant version.
Round 6 I've played against affinity and lost 1-2. Did nothing relevant on both games I've lost.
Some notes: Jund felt great. I'm very confortable playing with it, even tough it's very rough to play against any sort of Eldrazi deck.
For reference, this is the list that I've played with.
4 Dark Confidant
3 Scavenging Ooze
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Terminate
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Fatal Push
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
1 Claim // Fame
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Raging Ravine
2 Blooming Marsh
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Fulminator Mage
1 Grim Lavamancer
2 Leyline of the Void
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Collective Brutality
1 Damnation
Some notes from my list:
Claim // Fame won me two games. It felt great every time i've casted it.
23 lands again. Flooded just once and missed land drop just once.
Again, fulminator mage were pretty mediocre. He's leaving my board entirelely.
Liliana, the Last Hope it's such a powerful walker after g1 and g2 against some strategies. Probably I'll add another copy.
Damnation and EE felt horrible all day long. Thinking to ditch damnation at least, don't know what to add though.
Leyline of the Void felt awkward this time around..I'm going back to Nihil Spellbomb for the next PPTQ.
No bolt, this is a strange move..but I were siding them out too often. 4 pushs and 4 terminates felt straight enough and dealt with almost every threat, did not miss bolt at all.
Huntmaster it's great, but I'm thinking to go back with Kalitas..because he helps more against Grixis DS and Eldrazi variations i believe.
That's it folks, tks for your reading.
Ps.: Sorry about any grammar mistake!
UR Twin - RIP
I think exactly like you mate.
I've already cut one of them, and I'll probably going to cut the remaining 2.
The only match that he seems a bit better imo is against Grixis DS, which operates on low land..even then..i'm not totally sold.
UR Twin - RIP
Yesterday I went to a modern PPTQ with 80 players and a total of 4K (approximetly 1.9 USD), I've opened up 4-0, but then I lost to Storm, Grixis DS and Jeskai control to miss any chance of prizing and the top 8 itself.
This is were all the matchs I've played:
RG TitanShift - Won 2-0
Abzan - Won 2-0
Grixis DS - Won 2-0
Affinity - Won 2-0
Storm - Loss 0-2 (Won the whole thing)
Grixis DS - Loss 1-2
Jeskai Flash - Loss 0-2
This is a brief report, I don't remember everything..
R1 - RG TitanShift: G1 opp mulled to 6 on the play and I managed to discard T1, Goyf T2, discard T3 and LotV on T4.
G2 were pretty much the same, except that on T3 I played a LotV and on T5, a fulminator backed up by a terminate sealed the deal.
R2 - Abzan: Opp never saw Lingering Souls on both games. Resources traded and my draws were better. Nothing special here.
R3 - Grixis DS: This were a walk in the park to say so, we traded resources and Bob plus LotV sealed the deal. Observation here: This is a match that we must be careful, trade resources wisely and cash in on every mistaked/bad decision the opp make.
R4 - Affinity: With 2 Kommand main board and packed with a lot removal, I've managed to navigate G1 through the win.
G2 my opponent misscalculated the damage with Ravager and I had an active Scooze to eat the 2 creatures he had previsously sacrified for Ravager. He were dead on board next turn.
R5 - Storm: Lost both games. On G1 opponent got lucky drawing the third baral to going off, after me killing both of it.
On G2 I've never saw my hate cards. But I believe I've missplayed. On turn 5 he had a Goblin Electromancer on play, three cards in hand which were 2 lands and a Past in Flames..I've casted Collective Brutality, going for the goblin and the Past in Flames, when I should escalate again to drain 2.
A couple of turns later, he comboed off with the goblins with storm count on 10. I had an Scooze and bob to block and gain me a couple of life, killed 4 of with removal and with LotV, eventually I had 4 life, a scooze to block one of the 5 tokens, this is were that missplayed enters. If I had drained him, I could kill one token, take 4 going down to 2 and draw into Huntmaster, stabilize the board and even have an active LotV. What do you guys think of it? Missplayed because I did not thought of that line of play on that turn?
R6 - Grixis DS: On G1 we traded resources as supposed, but LotV is THE card against them. She single handed won that match.
G2 and G3, his draws were better than mine and I've lost both games to a tasigur.
R7 - Jeskai Control: We traded resources early on but I flooded pretty badly on both games.
The event were packed with RG Valakut variants, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity and Grixis DS.
This is the list that I've played
4 Dark Confidant
3 Scavenging Ooze
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Grim Lavamancer
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Terminate
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Fatal Push
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Lightning Bolt
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Raging Ravine
2 Blooming Marsh
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Big Game Hunter
2 Leyline of the Void
2 Ancient Grudge
3 Collective Brutality
1 Damnation
A few notes from this list:
23 Lands were the optimal number of lands. Never missed the 23th or the 3rd Ravine.
3-3 split on the discards, which paid off against Grixis DS and RG Valakut.
No finks on board, and I missed him there.
3 CBs is a lot. Sided all of the in against Storm only.
Big Game Hunter is a decent tech. Never casted him, but every match I brought him in, I felt safe with one more removal that could got Kommaned back to my hand.
2 Bolts were sided out very often. Probably going to remove them entirely. It's just bad nowadays. 4 Pushs and 4 Terminates are better and safe I believe.
That's it! Thanks for your reading and sry about grammar mistakes.
UR Twin - RIP
Every since I saw Williy's Abzan Traverse list, I've beem wanting to test it on a Jund shell.
I do have a question though, is Grim Flayer worth it? I mean he's a great beater on delirium enable, but when it's off, he's just not that good..In the Abzan shell he's better because Lingering Souls, you can ditch them to the bin and still generate a lot of value.
Have you guys considered something else? Perhaps the "stock" creature setup with 4 Goyfs, 4 Bobs and 3 Scoozes.
Tks mates!
UR Twin - RIP
What do you guys think about it in classic Jund Midrange?
UR Twin - RIP
UR Twin - RIP
Understood mate. Do you mind sharing your complete set up?
Tks!
UR Twin - RIP
I've been wanting to play with him..but he's not a 3 drop..but fells more like a virtual 4 drop..
He shines mid and late in the game though..and also a mana sink for those excessive land drops..
UR Twin - RIP
This is a big reason for me too, even tough i'll test, start with a single one and see how it goes from there.
UR Twin - RIP