Jund is probably the worst deck in Modern that is a playable deck, GB isn't too far behind it. I would not recommend playing this deck or any mid-range deck if you are looking for wins or competitive games. I would also not recommend Jund or GB if you suffer from depression or have suicidal thoughts.
Just look at this thread. I scrolled back a few a pages, there is nobody on here celebrating anything. Entire weeks go by without a single post. And when there is a post, it is someone suggesting something new for the deck, that is only immediately shot down, with good reason usually. I've been playing this deck for a long time now, hoping that something would make midrange playable but we are beyond that now. Nobody wants fair games, they want infinite loop or instant kill. Playing anything else, you are just wasting your time. Move on to some other deck, that is easier to play, like Burn or Tron.
Close this thread. It's over.
GB/X is still a incredibly powerful archetype. The only problem is that right now it's no longer top dog and has a high chance of never being the best of the best again for a long time. After all my years of playing modern I can say it's all about trends. Your either in or your out. Right now GB/X is not popular so it's not being played nearly as often as it used to be by people. Does that in any way mean it's less powerful? No just underrepresented currently. A good amount of people that play GB/X in general from my personal experience have typically higher skill sets and knowledge about modern in general so these 50/50 decks are usually able to carry them further then other decks. This does not mean all players who use GB/X are elitist it means they either like the archetype or are very spiky. No matter what GB/X will always lurk in modern being able to prey on decks. WotC always eventually prints a new thing for the GB/X archetype that boost its power level back up.
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Standard: No Time
Modern: Jund Midrange BRG
Legacy: Shardless Bug BUG
I've always favored lean lists, and outside of a difference in 1 land base, my land bases have often looked like yours. The only time we disagree'd heavily on a land base was on a Rabblemaster list.
I do feel I'm pretty right when certain GBx archetypes are going to trend up or down or be irrelevant, usually. Sadly, this time around it just feels rough to be playing fair. We have the aggro decks going underneath, the GY stuff being degenerate, and a ton of Big Mana decks. It's stretching the 75 we're allowed to have in too many directions.
Dude every time i see you i'm starting to debate if your a lucky charm or a black cat. Usually you say something along the lines of "jund is bad switch to X Deck instead" shortly after jund rises up. Weird facts aside i do agree with some of what you said and nice seeing you again.
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Standard: No Time
Modern: Jund Midrange BRG
Legacy: Shardless Bug BUG
This list has a similar manacurve to the standard build before the gitaxian probe ban. And this build ran 24 lands as standard. Therefore you need 24 lands for this curve and I would suggest to add another land by either cutting a three drop or the 4th Trophy.
I agree and i'll probably be dropping the rabble despite it giving me the win today im actually quite happy with 23 lands though so i might test it a bit longer to see if it can continue to put up results. Also a mountain in my opening hand was a new source of feel bad.
@moondemon88 : spicy MD cards ! You win points of style to have sulfur elemental in sideboard by the way !
It remember me the old Willy Edel's list with MD anger of gods and courser of kruphix, anyone try that since some months ?
Honestly my sb was unchanged from my lgs meta so take it with a grain of salt. My friend basically picked me up and said "lets go" very last min so i didn't have time to change it. I got lucky with the match ups till the end. Most of which i tend to play against. if the jund guy actually fetched better without wasting his life total for no reason i believe it would of been more 60/40 in his favor as i didn't think anyone would be playing jund for a while. Sulfur Elemental was just a random card i mentioned the other day was good against a few x/1 white decks so i threw it in to mess with a few decks at my lgs.
Pretty straight he dropped his hand by turn 2 and both games i top decked a anger of the gods to wipe his board before he could kill me. Nice guy we joked about it a little bit bought him a soda.
-2 thoughtseize -2 BBE +1 Bontu's Last Reckoning +1 Anger of the Gods +1 Rakdos Charm +1 Abrade
UR BLue Moon 2-0
Young Pyromancer/Blood Moon build was interesting, but a turn 1 discard taking his hand to reveal what he had quickly turned the game for me. Fetched a basic Swamp luckily on turn 1 since i had a stomping ground in hand took his young pyro. killed his first blood moon on turn 3 with my astro after that took him out with BBE and goyf beats.
-1 Pulse -1 Thoughtseize +2 Collective Brutality.
Jund Mirror 2-0
Was excited for the mirror i love mirror matches and control mirrors always makes the game super fun. The guy was bad at fetching and needlessly lost life. His turn 1 was fetch/shock/seize took my LotV. I played a Raging Ravine and passed and he fetch shocked into a bob at this point he was at 12 life. I untapped a bolted his bob and played a fetch and passed. The game went long until we started top decking with no board presence. I got a rabble off the top and he never got the removal for it.
-3 Thoughtseize -2 Inquisition of Kozilek +2 Fulminator Mage +1 Bontu's Last Reckoning +1 Nihil Spellbomb
Game 2 he proceeded to fetch badly again and all i got was removal the whole game for his creatures and pw's. I actually managed to beat him via bolt and k-command burn.
UW Control 2-1
Game 2 i never saw a single piece of hand disruption and he closed out the game with a uncontested amount of counters. Honestly was just a long drawn out series of game's can't really remember since i didn't take notes.
Burn 2-1
Lost game 1 due to my thoughtseize off a fetch and shock. Judge was called game 3 due to double eidolon triggers when he tried to kill me when i was at 1 life and he was at 3.
-3 Thoughtseize +2 Collective Brutality +1 Duress
Living End 0-2
Had no chance the guy apparently mainboarded 4 Leyline of Sanctity and got them both turn 0 in games 1 and 2.
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Standard: No Time
Modern: Jund Midrange BRG
Legacy: Shardless Bug BUG
Anyone know Good sideboard Cards again soulsisters? IM Having trouble against soulsisters in my local meta
Sulfur Elemental Kills most of soul sisters board, lingering souls, some D&T creatures and various white weenies with a toughness of one. Good against a few decks tho does add power to white as well by being a +1/-1. Advances your game plan by being on a 3/2 body has both flash and split second making it a bit easier to work with in case you need to keep removal up. With LotlH and K-command you can recover it from the gy a few times.
Night of Souls' Betrayal -1/-1 to all creatures including your own. Kills your bob's and goyfs if they have a RIP out. Good card and sometimes hard to remove.
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It's unfortunate to hear but that honesty is valuable. Hype can often be a negative thing.
I thought of Fatal Push as a tool for Jund but I didn't think about that it is also pretty good against Jund. Jund certainly often enables Revolt for the opponent.
Can you also clarify what you mean with how BBE destroyed the standard for a good Jund build? You mean in the sense of upping the mana curve?
Before Probe was unbanned, we had a pretty good set of rules everybody followed and understood. We always ran 24 lands, maximum 3 manlands, and 1-2 four drops to go with it as topenders. And this rules ensured a consistant positive performance for the deck.
With BBE being unbanned, obviously people started to jam the card as a 4 of. And rightfully so, this would mean adding another land is a nobrainer. Coming from 1-2 max four drops, you actually need a 25 land if you now have suddenly 4 four drops in your deck. In order to prevent flooding, that 25th land naturally was a 4th manland. All up to this point makese sense. However, people are naturally very greedy in deckbuilding (according to my epxerience) and people really like to skimp on lands since people always hate flooding more than screwing. So people decided to cut a land again here and there, and the problem was, they did not cut the 4th manland which was added, and just kept the 4 manlands. They just cut something else, because manlands are great right? Now, bad performance should now punish you, but the problem is, many people did this, and due to variance even with a greedy manabase you can of course win tournaments and perform well. This is simple statistics. And when those greedy lists started to pop up, people felt confirmed in their deckbuilding of course. Results say everything as we know (sarcasm). And when many people do similar things, it slowly starts to become the norm. In the past, it was never even possible to post a list with 4 four drops and only 24 lands to this forum and not get criticized about the manabase. Now its just normal. The interesting part about this is, modern as a format was way less punishing in the past. Nowadays though decks are more linear, more consistant and more punishing overall. But people still have more greedy manabases. So I guess you get the point, its completely twisted.
So up to this point, we need more definition about greedyness. Therefore I am spending a lot of time on this topic, and my goal is to bring people back on track. Thats why I write articles, address problems with manabases and the mana curve mainly. Its just the funamental part of each deck and when other decks are so consistant, we need to keep with that in order to perform well. Thats my opinion on that.
Honestly i've been debating on going to 2 BBE mb as im currently on 3 for the past few month's after dropping from 4 after a few personal conflicts. The card's amazing, but it has it's issues one of which is the mana count issue. I'm starting to debate a lot if i would rather have this or huntmaster again. There have been quite a few games that i would of won with either, but some only with huntmaster and some only with BBE.
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Standard: No Time
Modern: Jund Midrange BRG
Legacy: Shardless Bug BUG
I like waiting till i have 2 surgical extractions in hand against Living End. Faerie Macabre can be a blow out if you use it at the wrong time and they have one in hand. To me personally it feels like the safest route against them as most living end decks run usually 2 mainboard.
I think, if you wait for that, you will most likely be already dead at that point. What are the odds of finding the second Surgical before the Living End player going off? Not very good in comparison in my mind.
I like to doesn't always happen. I just get lucky with surgical extraction in jund.
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Modern: Jund Midrange BRG
Legacy: Shardless Bug BUG
For that meta there are actually only 7 decks where I would side in Surgical against (2 Tron, 1 Valakut, 2 Storm, 1 Dredge and 1 Living End). And against 4 of those, Surgical is only okay and not great (2 Storm, 1 Dredge and 1 Living End). I would cut them completely and play another Spellbomb and a Cage, which would help better for all matchups except for those 3 Big Mana decks (except Cage against Living End of course, but Cage is also applicable against Elves and good against Counters Company).
As a more general aspect, I would not play both Huntmaster and Hazoret. You have a high amount of aggro decks where those cards arent that good against. I would cut the Hazoret and play a Finks or Liliana, the Last Hope.
Also I would always bring 1 Grudge, which also helps against Tron.
I like waiting till i have 2 surgical extractions in hand against Living End. Faerie Macabre can be a blow out if you use it at the wrong time and they have one in hand. To me personally it feels like the safest route against them as most living end decks run usually 2 mainboard.
@SiegeDino: I will probably try a 2-2 split of Damping Sphere/Fulminator. I'm honestly curious to see it's effect's on snapcaster decks as a whole (not grixis) as i get the feeling people will be SBing them in against UR/x and ramp decks a lot. I just see this will be one of those cards that follows the Surgical Extraction, Lost Legacy, Slaughter Games route.
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Standard: No Time
Modern: Jund Midrange BRG
Legacy: Shardless Bug BUG
How do you guys feel about the criticism about lists and the evaluation process here?
On Facebook a few days ago, some guy posted a list he won a pptq with, it only ran 3 discard in the main board and 2x rabblemasters, when I said I wouldn't suggest any jund player to run that in any situation he got a little defensive and said it was a metw call because he wanted aggression on games 1 and to become more reactive if needed postboard
He basically made a Facebook post kinda passively aggressively saying no card choice is wrong in jund
...am I going crazy here, guys? I know there's some respectable choices I won't always agree with, but 3x mainboard discard is fundamentally wrong, right?
Should we be validating everyones choices? Is there a thing as being too critical?
I want someone to tell me if my deck list sucks.
It doesn't have anything to do with how good you are with the deck, it seems more about just good deck building and theory.
I'm liking the discussion this past month in this thread, I'm just wondering if we should be validating more peoples choices and card choice decisions
If the meta was honestly expected to be bg/x i would say it was an okish call. I would say with only 3 discard i personally would want all 3 to be thoughtseize to make up for the lack of possible turn 1 disruption. When you cast it you want it to be able to hit otherwise it's largely pointless. The idea of only 3 mb feels like he was playing the game SB for g1.
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Standard: No Time
Modern: Jund Midrange BRG
Legacy: Shardless Bug BUG
My problem with spellbomb is that theyll hold on cycling or cast living end in response.
If jund doesn't apply enough pressure they'll just hard cast it
Void is the only thing that really hits them hard with a goyf on turn 2
Personally i feel void is much better than Relic and Spellbound.
Relic kinda hurts as you can do one card a turn, but living end can be cascaded into in response to the sac trigger as you can only sac it once. Which leaves with just a cycle and exiting ur GY. I feel it is stronger with scooze tho as you can kill the gy quickly.
Spellbomb is the weakest imho cantrips and only kills there gy.
Just my personal opinion from what i have seen when playing living end.
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Standard: No Time
Modern: Jund Midrange BRG
Legacy: Shardless Bug BUG
I don't have problems against Burn/Humans/Elves with this list so far. Now I am still testing the 24 lands merit, but right now it gives me the opportunity to run the full 12 CMC1 interaction spell suite.
I am testing whether the singleton golgari charm should be a second Pulse. Rest has been fine so far.
Oddly we have the same list other then i have 4 bolts 2 push. How are you liking the Twilight mire? i replaced my mountain with a twilight mire and have yet to ever use it so was wondering about your opinion.
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Standard: No Time
Modern: Jund Midrange BRG
Legacy: Shardless Bug BUG
Has anyone tried grim flayer with BBE to help manipulate cascade triggers for more vaule? I have been debating on finding a way to find a spot for a couple of them. So was wondering if we could manipulate the top cards enough to get more guaranteed vaule out of BBE.
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Standard: No Time
Modern: Jund Midrange BRG
Legacy: Shardless Bug BUG
Thanks you both for the help. I think i just overestimate K-command since i have been playing it since release with snapcaster. You both actually helped me with the thing i was missing which was DS decks. That deck died off in my meta really quickly and no one picked it back up so i always forget about it for some reason. Sorry i had to ask bit embarrassing usually i figure it out, but i would rather figure out what i missing then just screw up.
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Standard: No Time
Modern: Jund Midrange BRG
Legacy: Shardless Bug BUG
Anyway was gonna ask whats up with the 4 bolts, 1 push, 1 decay, 1-2 Terminate, 0-1 Dreadbore, 2 K-command, 1-2 Maelstrom Pulse? Feels like our removal is becoming more stretched and less optimized everytime i look online nowadays. Is it as players were trying to accommodate BBE and make as many cascade live as possible? or are we just not sure where we want to be on removal currently as the meta is shifting? This honestly has been puzzling me for awhile.
Why do you think it is less optimized?
To me it looks like what we did run for all of modern (influenced by bans, and printings).
Our Removal was always like this (leaving out kolaghans, since it is a value card with removal as option and hard to analyse):
4 Bolts until Push was printed, then it was 3 Push 2 Bolt, now it is back to more Bolt, but there is not a big difference in power level, the bolt your face option just became better again.
4 LotV: Just he best large creature removal there is in modern.
1-3 Terminate: Works together with Decay and Pulse, if there are more 4 Mana+ Creatures, we play more Terminate
1-3 Decay:Works with Terminate and Pulse, if there are a lot of 3 Mana or less permanents, Like Blood Moon, Search for Azz, Plating, Bridge, etc. that we need to kill we play more Decay
1-2 Maelstrom Pulse: Works with Terminate and Decay, Kills Evrything, We play more Pulse when both Termiante and Decay are needed and the format is slow, when there is a lot of tokens, or 4+ Non Creatures to deal with.
0-1 Dreadbore: The Hybrid of terminate and Pulse that some people try to play instead of a terminate when they are scared of a new (or unbanned) Planeswalker, stays in the deck for 1 Month before everyone is cutting it again. I Think it is the worst of both worlds, sorcery and does not kill everything, so it is not worth.
Most of the time Modern since the Decay print we ran exactly this removal, or name me a time that we did not (i cant remember when i did not).
The Balance of the spells is very improtenat to have enogh playabels in every matchup (max. 4-5 completly dead cards in my opinon, e.g. push and terminate against Lantern, since decay, bolt, and pulse can never be dead they are the saver includes).
It comes all down to your expected Meta wich spells to play, and since the unban people need to readjust since we are missing 2-3 Slots (25th Land, 2 BEEs) from before, if you want to keep 3 Ooze and 5 Liliana, as well as 6 Discard (wich i think is still the sweet spot, 7 was always to many and 5 just not enough) you need to cut removal.
I like the poll! What do people prefer out of the original 'Bob' Dark Confidant art vs the newer Skrillex one?
I currently have 3 RAV, 1 MM2013 one so I will probably trade the MM2013 for a 4th Rav.
Easily Ravnica. It is also the only version you are allowed to call Bob (for obvious reason), the other one is obviously Skrillex like you said.
On removal, as of now, I am pretty sure about those:
4 LoTV, 4 Bolts, 1 Push, 2 Terminate, 1 Pulse, 1 KCommand. I like having 16 removal spells in my deck, so I am currently adding 1 more Command, 1 Push and 1 Pulse. I could see addding a Decay instead of Pulse number 2. But so far I haven't missed it. Also could cut second Push for the Decay. But I like the 12 one drop configuration.
I am quite firm on zero Dreadbore. I don't think it adds much benefit in contrast for its sorcery speed downside. I do like the non regenerate clause of terminate more also, which can be helpful against Welding Jar from Affinity.
Im gonna just engage both of you at once if you dont mind. The problems not like numbers on Lili PW split or use as removal or Scooze numbers or anything my only problem is honestly the numbers i posted that i have been seeing online for the most part for the things listed below.
4 bolts, 1 push, 1 decay, 1-2 Terminate, 0-1 Dreadbore, 2 K-command, 1-2 Maelstrom Pulse being somewhere in the generic realm of online removal from what i have seen for the last week or so. My main reasoning atm is what am i missing about the meta for people to come to this conclusion of removal.
Like i understand with BBE and Jace unbanned you want bolts more then push. The push is weaker cascade, etc usual stuff. Why are we still using the generic push though when both terminate, dreadbore, and abrupt decay are better? why use the abrupt decay when we increased the amount of maelstrom pulse? Both of you already stated my personal opinion on dreadbore so we can skip that. Did the 3rd k-command become the second maelstrom pulse? Why not more terminates to battle the big creatures?
I might also just be overthinking things and getting confused as i'm currently helping my friends prepare for a legacy and vintage tournament while also helping my friend get used to his modern deck he finally built.
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GB/X is still a incredibly powerful archetype. The only problem is that right now it's no longer top dog and has a high chance of never being the best of the best again for a long time. After all my years of playing modern I can say it's all about trends. Your either in or your out. Right now GB/X is not popular so it's not being played nearly as often as it used to be by people. Does that in any way mean it's less powerful? No just underrepresented currently. A good amount of people that play GB/X in general from my personal experience have typically higher skill sets and knowledge about modern in general so these 50/50 decks are usually able to carry them further then other decks. This does not mean all players who use GB/X are elitist it means they either like the archetype or are very spiky. No matter what GB/X will always lurk in modern being able to prey on decks. WotC always eventually prints a new thing for the GB/X archetype that boost its power level back up.
Modern: Jund Midrange BRG
Legacy: Shardless Bug BUG
Dude every time i see you i'm starting to debate if your a lucky charm or a black cat. Usually you say something along the lines of "jund is bad switch to X Deck instead" shortly after jund rises up. Weird facts aside i do agree with some of what you said and nice seeing you again.
Modern: Jund Midrange BRG
Legacy: Shardless Bug BUG
I agree and i'll probably be dropping the rabble despite it giving me the win today im actually quite happy with 23 lands though so i might test it a bit longer to see if it can continue to put up results. Also a mountain in my opening hand was a new source of feel bad.
Honestly my sb was unchanged from my lgs meta so take it with a grain of salt. My friend basically picked me up and said "lets go" very last min so i didn't have time to change it. I got lucky with the match ups till the end. Most of which i tend to play against. if the jund guy actually fetched better without wasting his life total for no reason i believe it would of been more 60/40 in his favor as i didn't think anyone would be playing jund for a while. Sulfur Elemental was just a random card i mentioned the other day was good against a few x/1 white decks so i threw it in to mess with a few decks at my lgs.
Not sure honestly i should of asked him, but didn't.
Modern: Jund Midrange BRG
Legacy: Shardless Bug BUG
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
3 Scavenging Ooze
1 Goblin RabbleMaster
2 Bloodbraid Elf
Planeswalkers (4)
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
Instant & Sorceries (19)
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Fatal Push
4 Assassin's Trophy
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
3 Raging Ravine
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Bontu's Last Reckoning
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Collective Brutality
1 Duress
1 Rakdos Charm
1 Abrade
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Damping Sphere
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Fulminator Mage
1 Sulfur Elemental
Classic Affinity 2-0
Pretty straight he dropped his hand by turn 2 and both games i top decked a anger of the gods to wipe his board before he could kill me. Nice guy we joked about it a little bit bought him a soda.
-2 thoughtseize -2 BBE +1 Bontu's Last Reckoning +1 Anger of the Gods +1 Rakdos Charm +1 Abrade
UR BLue Moon 2-0
Young Pyromancer/Blood Moon build was interesting, but a turn 1 discard taking his hand to reveal what he had quickly turned the game for me. Fetched a basic Swamp luckily on turn 1 since i had a stomping ground in hand took his young pyro. killed his first blood moon on turn 3 with my astro after that took him out with BBE and goyf beats.
-1 Pulse -1 Thoughtseize +2 Collective Brutality.
Jund Mirror 2-0
Was excited for the mirror i love mirror matches and control mirrors always makes the game super fun. The guy was bad at fetching and needlessly lost life. His turn 1 was fetch/shock/seize took my LotV. I played a Raging Ravine and passed and he fetch shocked into a bob at this point he was at 12 life. I untapped a bolted his bob and played a fetch and passed. The game went long until we started top decking with no board presence. I got a rabble off the top and he never got the removal for it.
-3 Thoughtseize -2 Inquisition of Kozilek +2 Fulminator Mage +1 Bontu's Last Reckoning +1 Nihil Spellbomb
Game 2 he proceeded to fetch badly again and all i got was removal the whole game for his creatures and pw's. I actually managed to beat him via bolt and k-command burn.
UW Control 2-1
Game 2 i never saw a single piece of hand disruption and he closed out the game with a uncontested amount of counters. Honestly was just a long drawn out series of game's can't really remember since i didn't take notes.
Burn 2-1
Lost game 1 due to my thoughtseize off a fetch and shock. Judge was called game 3 due to double eidolon triggers when he tried to kill me when i was at 1 life and he was at 3.
-3 Thoughtseize +2 Collective Brutality +1 Duress
Living End 0-2
Had no chance the guy apparently mainboarded 4 Leyline of Sanctity and got them both turn 0 in games 1 and 2.
Modern: Jund Midrange BRG
Legacy: Shardless Bug BUG
Sulfur Elemental Kills most of soul sisters board, lingering souls, some D&T creatures and various white weenies with a toughness of one. Good against a few decks tho does add power to white as well by being a +1/-1. Advances your game plan by being on a 3/2 body has both flash and split second making it a bit easier to work with in case you need to keep removal up. With LotlH and K-command you can recover it from the gy a few times.
Night of Souls' Betrayal -1/-1 to all creatures including your own. Kills your bob's and goyfs if they have a RIP out. Good card and sometimes hard to remove.
Modern: Jund Midrange BRG
Legacy: Shardless Bug BUG
Honestly i've been debating on going to 2 BBE mb as im currently on 3 for the past few month's after dropping from 4 after a few personal conflicts. The card's amazing, but it has it's issues one of which is the mana count issue. I'm starting to debate a lot if i would rather have this or huntmaster again. There have been quite a few games that i would of won with either, but some only with huntmaster and some only with BBE.
Modern: Jund Midrange BRG
Legacy: Shardless Bug BUG
I like to doesn't always happen. I just get lucky with surgical extraction in jund.
Modern: Jund Midrange BRG
Legacy: Shardless Bug BUG
I like waiting till i have 2 surgical extractions in hand against Living End. Faerie Macabre can be a blow out if you use it at the wrong time and they have one in hand. To me personally it feels like the safest route against them as most living end decks run usually 2 mainboard.
@SiegeDino: I will probably try a 2-2 split of Damping Sphere/Fulminator. I'm honestly curious to see it's effect's on snapcaster decks as a whole (not grixis) as i get the feeling people will be SBing them in against UR/x and ramp decks a lot. I just see this will be one of those cards that follows the Surgical Extraction, Lost Legacy, Slaughter Games route.
Modern: Jund Midrange BRG
Legacy: Shardless Bug BUG
If the meta was honestly expected to be bg/x i would say it was an okish call. I would say with only 3 discard i personally would want all 3 to be thoughtseize to make up for the lack of possible turn 1 disruption. When you cast it you want it to be able to hit otherwise it's largely pointless. The idea of only 3 mb feels like he was playing the game SB for g1.
Modern: Jund Midrange BRG
Legacy: Shardless Bug BUG
Modern: Jund Midrange BRG
Legacy: Shardless Bug BUG
Personally i feel void is much better than Relic and Spellbound.
Relic kinda hurts as you can do one card a turn, but living end can be cascaded into in response to the sac trigger as you can only sac it once. Which leaves with just a cycle and exiting ur GY. I feel it is stronger with scooze tho as you can kill the gy quickly.
Spellbomb is the weakest imho cantrips and only kills there gy.
Just my personal opinion from what i have seen when playing living end.
Modern: Jund Midrange BRG
Legacy: Shardless Bug BUG
Oddly we have the same list other then i have 4 bolts 2 push. How are you liking the Twilight mire? i replaced my mountain with a twilight mire and have yet to ever use it so was wondering about your opinion.
Modern: Jund Midrange BRG
Legacy: Shardless Bug BUG
Modern: Jund Midrange BRG
Legacy: Shardless Bug BUG
Modern: Jund Midrange BRG
Legacy: Shardless Bug BUG
Im gonna just engage both of you at once if you dont mind. The problems not like numbers on Lili PW split or use as removal or Scooze numbers or anything my only problem is honestly the numbers i posted that i have been seeing online for the most part for the things listed below.
4 bolts, 1 push, 1 decay, 1-2 Terminate, 0-1 Dreadbore, 2 K-command, 1-2 Maelstrom Pulse being somewhere in the generic realm of online removal from what i have seen for the last week or so. My main reasoning atm is what am i missing about the meta for people to come to this conclusion of removal.
Like i understand with BBE and Jace unbanned you want bolts more then push. The push is weaker cascade, etc usual stuff. Why are we still using the generic push though when both terminate, dreadbore, and abrupt decay are better? why use the abrupt decay when we increased the amount of maelstrom pulse? Both of you already stated my personal opinion on dreadbore so we can skip that. Did the 3rd k-command become the second maelstrom pulse? Why not more terminates to battle the big creatures?
I might also just be overthinking things and getting confused as i'm currently helping my friends prepare for a legacy and vintage tournament while also helping my friend get used to his modern deck he finally built.
Modern: Jund Midrange BRG
Legacy: Shardless Bug BUG