MTG Salvation

I guess I should've purchased my Wrenn and Six's sooner... they're already up to $50-$60! I was just waiting for the rest of these cards to come out so I could put in an order for everything all at once. I have a bunch of Goblins and Knights and stuff I was wanting to order as well. I haven't had to buy cards for that much in awhile... *some ragrets*

Hey, thanks for the Discord invite/link! I downloaded that app a couple of days ago. I'll make an account soon and get up on that discussion.

Interesting list 5-0’d a league. Good to see people still brewing and playing Jund. I like the idea of lowering our top end just a little by running 2x Well-Seasoned Pyromancers in the place of 2x or our BBE’s. I haven’t tested him out yet, but I’m guessing the card selection is a welcome and much needed addition. It’s also nice that the card adds its own flavor of card advantage, so we don’t lose anything in the grindy MU’s by cutting a couple of BBE’s. I like the 1-of Unearth as well. The 2x Wrenn and Six seems appropriate, as discussed.

Hey, btw, I’ve only ever used mtgsalvation for ‘shop-talk’. I don’t have any alternatives. Does anyone have any good suggestions for similar forums I can use to ask questions, get advice, theorize, brew, discuss pet-decks, etc., etc.? I’m bummed mtgsalvation is drying up.

Quote from Spsiegel1987 »

You're trying to reinvent the deck a little too much, I think. If Jund restructures that much it'll be become Jund Loam because the deck of choice for Jund, not this.

I wonder if Wrenn could even be a 3 of. He synergies nicely with LOTV on curve. Turn 2 play him, turn 3 LOTV it up. Something like -1 Land, -1 Bob, and -1 of something else. It'll deal with the "Do I want to play 4 Bobs with 4 BBE's in the deck."


Wrenn also works nicely in that little creatures swarm the board one can be pinged away and the other could be edicted. Replacing Bob straight up is not viable though, he's still our best CA in the deck.

I also like the idea that Raging Ravine's could come back to our hands in grindy matches.

I wouldn't add Grim Flayer, he's only making your deck super soft to GY hate at that point.

Now that you mention it, Bolt/Push into Wrenn into Lili does sound really badass against creature heavy MU’s.

What third card would we lose for the third Wrenn?

And does this card make Lili(tLH) completely obsolete? Kinda seems like it does. He pings and gives value like she does, and at one mana less (which is a huge difference). I understand they’re not exactly the same, but still...

I’m happy UW Control isn’t the only fair deck getting shiny new (and smaller) Walkers.

Came here to say I think The new walker will be a great addition. That’s some seriously diversified utility and a lot of damn value at 2cmc. You’re pretty much guaranteed to get some value out of it by getting your fetchland back or pinging their turn-1 critter. It’s the mana cost that makes it such a hit. I could definitely see it as a 2-of.

Does Pillage replace Fulminator? I know we can’t recur it like we can with Fulminator, but how often does that happen anyway? I think it’d be nice to cover both angles like that with one card. Plus the “can’t be regenerated” clause can make all the difference in the world, as can the fact that it can hit any land, not just nonbasic.

Edit: Also, thoughts on Plague Engineer (I’m loving all these throwback shoutouts, by the way)? Is it enough of an impact by turn-3, or is -1/-1 not gonna cut it? And while I’m on the subject, let me just so that I truly, strongly hope we see an uptick in tribal decks. The Tolkien-loving nerd in me loves the classic fantasy races (and not-so-classic ones like Slivers) and it’s that same nerdy love that attracted me to this game in the first place. I’m so happy they’re finally throwing some of these wonderful tribes a bone. I am freakin’ stoked about this set!

Oh, and one last thing. I’ve never played Slivers, but I started collecting Magic cards as a kid when Tempest was the newest set out, so I certainly have an affinity for them. I hope they tarred and feathered whatever dip**** came up with those humanoid slivers from M14 or whatever set that was. I’m relieved that they’ve returned their morphology to its original, sleek, no-eyed form. Good golly, those humanoid slivers looked so ******* dumb.

Looking at this flood of lists that just got added to mtggoldfish (IQ’s, MOCS, Leagues, etc.), something stuck out to me. There are a ton of Walkers being played right now. It looks like UW Control has turned into a Superfriends deck. I’m looking hard at two cards.

One is The Elderspell as a hoser for particularly UW Control. There are other lists I’m seeing where it’d be a relevant SB inclusion, but for that Azorius MU, it could very possibly be a blowout, and that’s why I’m looking seriously at it for my SB if these super PW heavy lists become the norm. You’re sure to have at least one target for it. Nailing two Walkers simultaneously would be insane value. Hitting one with a Lili out would be sweet. Destroying two walkers and adding 4 loyalty to your Lili would be GG.

The other is Abrupt Decay. Decay is looking super relevant right now. Lots of 3cmc Walkers, and all kinds of pesky artifacts and enchantments. The can’t be countered clause is obviously huge against Control (more-so than ever with all these new Walkers they want to protect), and it’s nice against Infect too, which seems to be on the rise.

Anyway, I’m curious if y’all’ve seen these lists and have drawn similar conclusions.

Do we like Leyline of the Void more now with the new mulligan rules? I’ve been living under a rock and just found out about the change. The odds of finding one are pretty dang good if you really wanted to dig (i.e., 78.3% for a mull to 5 and 87% to 4). Is that enough to convert any of y’all that were not in the LotVoid camp, or are you going to stick to your other hosers? Obviously it’ll be just as easy to find them too, though they won’t be present on turn-0. I’m just curious what y’all think about it. It scares me a little that combo can dig like that though.

I thought the uncommon was an odd choice too. He/she is a little too multifaceted and powerful of a hoser to not be a rare, I would think. The silver is why I kind of glanced over the card for awhile before now.

While we’re talking about new SB hosers, The Elderspell is obviously the strongest PW hoser we (or anyone else for that matter) have access to. Are there going to be enough Planeswalkers in existing decks and/or enough of an uptick in PW-centric decks that it warrants inclusion of this new card in the SB?
I guess the real question is: is it good enough to run against decks running 4-6 PW’s like GBx, UWx Control, and Tron? Or is it too narrow, and not worth the risk of sitting in our hands durdling while we wait for a target, wishing it was a Dreadbore or Goyf or something else? We don’t have card selection, after all. But damn, that ceiling is high.

Anyone taken a look at Ashiok, Dream Render? Seems like a really solid SB card. Am I looking at it right? A great answer to GY decks (which is every deck) and assorted decks (a lot of combo) that search their library or use fetchlands (which is every deck). Those are exaggerations, but my point is it covers a lot of ground. We could mill ourselves (unless we knew the opponent had something good on top) to fuel Goyf. Other similar decks will get more mileage out of the self-mill, but it’s still useful to us.

Quote from Tempest753 »

I don’t think lili’s triumph is gonna be all that great tbh. Many, many decks in modern go wide rather than tall and edicts just aren’t effective against that style. As is most BGx decks play 4, or sometimes fewer, LotV. Adding diabolical edict is largely unneeded redundancy.

I think the card is very playable, but people seem to be overreacting big time. I don’t see this card making it out of the sideboard, and even then it’s probably only to be included when you’re fearing specifically bogles.

We’re Jund. We should be 1-for-1’ing their creatures as they play them. There shouldn’t be a board full of opposing creatures that your opponent can choose to sac. Also, it has a pretty decent ceiling. Especially if they’re hellbent. Instant speed discard is the real deal. I’m not saying cut Lightning Bolts for 4x copies of triumph (obvious exaggeration), but I can easily see a singleton copy in the MB in one of those removal flex-slots we have, and another in the SB for decks it shines against (e.g., Bogles, Breach decks, Infect, mirror/midrange). There’s plenty of other MU’s I can see it proving its worth against too. Shadow decks, for example (watch out for Snapcaster), Eldrazi/Tron, etc. Anywhere with fewer and hard to remove creatures, and anywhere we keep our Lili’s in after game 1 and CA matters.

I’m excited about it. I think it’s a pretty slick card and a nice nod to GBx decks, albeit 12Rack players are probably drooling a little bit harder than me. Also, I’m secretely hoping for an uptick in untargeted discard so my Wilt-Leaf Lieges can come out of hiding again.

Edit: Also, just in case it wasn’t obvious and to head off any unnecessary corrections, I know it’s 8Rack. I was referencing Davriel, Rogue Shadowmage.

Any love for Liliana’s Triumph? I’m pretty excited about it. I haven’t played mtg in months, but even when I’m not playing I love it when new sets come out and I always try to keep up with them. It’s a better Diabolic Edict; a card I’ve wished we, at the very least, had access to for a long time now. And this one gets around Leyline of Sanctity, as well as very possibly providing some virtual CA.

Dreadhorde Arcanist is at least interesting, though maybe it’s better for a shadow deck?

Angrath’s Rampage looks pretty bad*** too, though the sorcery speed is a deterrent.

Any other prospects I’ve missed?

Great job, rnm32! It sounds like the deck was running like it’s supposed to. Nothing feels better than when your removal is lining up properly, you’re landing your threats and your Bobs are sticking, and you’re effectively tearing apart your opponent’s game plan. It’s like a drug.

We may have a right/wrong half-of-the-deck dilemma, but it’s nice to be reminded that our right half is still super powerful and our individual cards are still the tits.

Obviously your play was tight too, or else you wouldn’t have had the outcome you did. Right cards or not, this deck (especially in the context of this unforgiving meta) is brutal to sloppy pilots. Also, good to hear your GDS MU has improved. Right on, man.

Quote from Spsiegel1987 »

Do you guys really want to play Manamorphose when Humans is still around? Not a great BBE target, you don't need the color fixing, you aren't really filling the yard to help Goyf out.

Do I? No. I was just reminding Protohype that the spell had a colorless and hybrid cost, not a cost of two colored Mana. Personally I don’t see the merit in it for a number of reasons, and Mardu gets waaaay better use out of it than we ever could.

I do own four copies though that are anxiously waiting to go in a Fecundity Goblin list. I’m just biding my time ‘til we get a couple more Goblins printed so I can make an improved Goblin Storm deck that’s still worse than regular Storm and still worse than 8Whack

Great job, yriel! I dig the double Kalitas.

Protohype86, I think Arena has been played off and on in the past. I’ve seen it pop up (though rarely) in lists over the years. I think it’s too slow now. At least in this meta. Comes down a turn later, doesn’t affect the board-state, doesn’t apply pressure, and still hurts us (however slightly). On turn-3 we need to be double-spelling or slamming a Lili to edict something at least. It seems decent against UW Control, but all the Aggro decks would murder us for playing it and all the Big Mana decks would be stoked that we weren’t applying pressure or trying to disrupt them.

That’s my understanding at least. I like the card and have considered it in the 75 in the past. I just think everything is too quick right now.

Edit: Manamorphose is 1 not RG

This Jund list went 6-1 on a Modern Challenge yesterday. I don’t like the 5x Fastlands with the 4x BBE’s. 8x 1cmc removal in the 75 is interesting. Other than that a pretty standard list.

Bitterblossom seem decent in a Copter build with Flayer/Goyf. Throw it away with Copter or Lili if you don’t need it for two hard-to-get card types in the yard.