Good call. Yeah, Collector Ouphe is really good. I'm sorry the reviews for Modern Horizons and M20 have been a bit delayed. I got hit with some ennui when it was announced the site was closing, and I haven't been quite able to shake it off yet.
Without going too much into specifics, as I haven't really evaluated all the cards yet, other things I'm thinking about for Yeva include Force of Vigor, Llanowar Tribe, Springbloom Druid (for budget versions), Elvish Reclaimer (!), Leafkin Druid, and Shared Summons. I also love Wakeroot Elemental's ability to go infinite with Cradle or Nykthos, but it's a bit too clunky and non-synergistic to be included in a fair version of the deck.
My full thoughts on War to the Spork is up. I loved this set. The TL;DR Version: Finale of Devastation replaced Tooth and Nail in the main deck. Nissa, Who Shakes the World is my favorite new card, although it won't be perfect in my deck. There's tons of new and interesting design space being explored. Return to Nature is my second favorite card, because why not just staple cool effects onto an already good card? I have too many decks, but I'm building more. I somehow didn't screw up the formatting in the OP even once. First time for everything! [/tl;dr]
Emergence Zone I like, though not for Yeva. I don't value it too much as a backup plan, especially as it's a one-shot, and would prefer Winding Canyons for that role. Still, there are going to be so many decks where it's insane it's not even funny.
Bond of Flourishing is aaaaalmost there. It's not really card advantage, after all, since it just replaces itself, but the filtering is a nice effect. I think there are probably decks that will want it. If it was an instant, I'd be more interested.
Hey Inkmoth, glad things are working out well for your deck. Best of luck with it going forward!
I'm just posting to let everyone know that Finale of Devastation is a bananas card and will be windmill slammed into this deck the exact moment I can get my hands on one. I've plenty of thoughts on the rest of the set, too, but I'll wait for the full spoiler before I start on the set review.
But, yeah...man. Green Sun's Zenith that's also a reanimation spell and can randomly kill the table? I'm in.
A little too balanced for me. Only untaps once (at your end step), only untaps lands, not creatures. Plus, it's an enchantment, so it doesn't synergize with any of the creature tutor, creature-based draw effects, and is vulnerable to my own artifact/enchantment board wipes (like Rampage of the Clans...
It could be a useful piece in some budget versions (not THAT budget...what is it, a $2 uncommon right now?) but I don't see any room for it in tuned versions of the deck. =/
I discussed Guardian Project, along with a bunch of other cards, in the full review. It didn't make the TL;DR version because it's not a creature (so, not tutorable, little synergy with the rest of the deck) and doesn't seem better than the current non-creature draw suite (more expensive than Evolutionary Leap or Sylvan Library, less powerful than Greater Good). I might test it at some point, but no plans for that yet.
I also had a chance to get a game in, which has been hard lately with playgroup schedules. Got my rear end thoroughly trounced. Mediocre starting hand that never topdecked any gas, plus double-hated from the word "go." I need to take my own advice about opening hands! No Seedborn Muse seen.
Thank you! Thank you so much! You validating my deck really puts the cherry on top of an already glorious day. I would be totally honored to be put on your page as this is the first thing you get when googling for a competitive Yeva deck and you laid the groundwork for this thing I've worked so many sleepless nights on. You were onto something, dude, you really were thanks again.
No worries! It's nice to know someone is reading that insane pile of words out front. I went ahead and updated the introduction to include your deck!
Which, by the way, why didn't you consider Generous Patron? When you neglected to even mention it in your Battlebond review I cried inside a bit. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND IT!! It's an Instant-speed Divination that leaves an Elf body (Marwyn makes it feel even better since you can either draw 2 and buff once or buff her twice and still draw one). Sorry for the mini-rant, I legit bought two boosters boxes to get her lol.
A legitimate question, and I probably should have addressed it! I do think Generous Patron has a role in a budget or elf-centric build of Yeva, but I'm not nearly as bullish on it as you are, and I don't think I'd ever include it in my main list. It's fail case -- a mediocre elven body distributing +1/+1 counters to my creatures -- is pretty devastating, and that case is decided by the opponent. If they don't play any creatures, it's useless. Now, it's true a majority of the time your opponents will have creatures, especially in EDH, but I feel there are other, more reliable forms of card draw. Elvish Visionary, for example, provides half the card advantage guaranteed, without a fail case scenario, for one less mana. If it's working for you, I'm glad to hear! One of these times when I do a budget league I'll give it a test out and see if it performs better than my expectations.
I heavily recommend Earthcraft, Great Oak Guardian, Ambush Commander, and Generous Patron. These have out proven themselves time and time again.
All good cards! Man, Ambush Commander...that takes me back to playing multiplayer elves back in college, right about 8th edition. I think it was one of the first singles I ever bought. It's a bit too risky for what I'm doing with my deck, but I'm glad you've found a use for it. Great Oak Guardian is a fantastic card for combo purposes, but I think it's "fair" use (which is what I'd be looking at) is a bit too mediocre. As for Earthcraft, turning my random dudes into dorks usually isn't that big of a deal. If it could untap non-basics, then sure! But I would have to cut a creature for it, and I like to maintain a certain creature density.
Strangely, the card I've been reevaluating most about in this discussion is Gyre Sage. I'm not as bullish on Marwyn, the Nurturer because of her 3cc cost (though in a dedicated elf deck i do like her synergy with Immaculate Magistrate). I don't really have a way to put counters on the Sage outside of its own ability, but T2 Sage -> T3 Yeva -> T4 untap with 6+ mana seems like a similar use case to Priest of Titania, a card I'm never sad to see. I'm going to have to dig up one of my copies and give it a test, probably in the Krosan Restorer slot.
Well, that certainly is a fresh take! Very interesting deck. I'll be happy to link it in the introductory paragraph, if you'd like! I'm also glad to see the love Temur Sabertooth gets from you. That card is sneakily, like, one of the best green creatures ever printed. I use it mainly for protection, but as you point out it has some pretty amazing combo applications too.
Your build does seem to avoid the worst pitfalls of my build, especially the reliance on the combat phase for realistic wins. However, I do have a few worries with mono-green infinite combo. I worry it's not reliable/redundant enough to be depended on and that it's not as fast or interactive as Ux combinations.
So how do you find the speed of the deck? One of the biggest problems for me in facing true competitive decks is the inability to interact meaningfully in the very early turns, minus some super-lucky draw into Beast Within or something. How does the deck fair, for example, against decks that are looking to combo off T4? I do see your deck is faster, as you're playing with more 1cc dorks. Is that enough to get in the game before the game is over?
I also worry about the dependence on Temur Sabertooth for the combo outlets, as awesome as he is. What's the backup plan for if he gets exiled (I presume from hand/library, as I doubt you'd run him out before absolutely needed)? I will throw out that Concordant Crossroads might be a good add. Haste for everything seems to work in your favor, plus you can dump the whole deck and swing if your other combo outlets are "dealt with".
Finally, a few pages back, osieorb18 mentioned the infinite mana combo of Maze of Ith and Argothian Elder (or any double land untapper). It's only in the combat phase, of course, but with Yeva that doesn't really matter. Would that make a good addition to your "big dorks"? I know spending a land drop on something that doesn't make mana sucks, but it could add some extra redundancy to the combo.
I do really like this deck, and I hope you are having good luck with it! Make sure to keep us up to date.
Great news! I'm always glad to hear of converts to the high-risk high-reward ramp strategy. I hope Yeva has been treating you well in general.
You're absolutely right about both Beast Whisperer and Bramble Sovereign. I've (at long last) gotten around to posting my Guilds of Ravnica review (for the TL;DR folks: I'm bored of Ravnica but Beast Whisperer is money) and I went ahead and formally updated the Bramble Sovereign replacing Acidic Slime that I've been playing with for a while.
Vivien Reid is a great card I've been playing with in other decks, and she was originally slated to test in Garruk, Primal Hunter's slot. But then, before I had a chance to play any Yeva games with her, Beast Whisperer came out and that spot was spoken for. I'm not sure that I like her better than Primordial Sage just because I like a good creature density and, like Garruk, she can only do work at sorcery speed. But I'll agree she is a bomb in other green decks.
Hey, good question. I've played pretty extensively with Yisan, the Wanderer Bard in both the normal and budget versions of this list. He's almost acceptable in the budget versions. It comes down to immediacy of impact. Yeva, Nature's Herald is by instinct a reactive deck. Creature tutors need to be able to fetch out what I need when I need it. If I need a Spore Frog, for instance, I need it right now. I can't wait a full turn cycle for Yisan to come online.
Also, many of the creatures the deck is looking for (Temur Sabertooth, Seedborn Muse, Craterhoof Behemoth, etc) are high-CC creatures. The investment of resources in mana with the high-risk, high-reward mana package makes their CC less relevant, but Yisan would have to untap five times before he could fetch out a Muse. The other tutors in the deck are either less conditional or faster or both; Yisa doesn't stand a chance in a straight up competition against Chord of Calling, for example.
It is true that any creature can eat removal; that's why Yeva's plan involves saving creatures from removal, either by bouncing them to hand or by reviving them from the graveyard. Unfortunately, either one of those plans resets Yisan, making it unlikely he will ever get out of the 1-2 mana cost area.
Yisan is an extremely powerful card in his own deck, which will have been optimized to best take advantage of his powerful recurring tutor through untap effects and a strict CC curve. Yeva is simply a very different deck, focused more on immediate board impact, control, and an overwhelming combat finish.
Now of course every opinion is subjective, and every deck is different. It is very possible to build a Yeva deck to take advantage of Yisan's unique abilities, but then you'd probably be better off just building a Yisan deck.
Oh, for sure, good call. I just slotted it in for testing last night, and Beast Whisperer took over the game where I saw it. My personal life has been a bit hectic the last month or so, so I haven't had time to complete the "Return to Return to Ravnica" review yet, but I should get that up sometime in the next few days.
I was able to play for the first time in about a month the other night.
The second game (against Jhoira of the Ghitu, Etali, Primal Storm, and Karador, Ghost Chieftain) flew off the rails pretty early. Because I felt bad about the first game, I kept a hand I shouldn't have (all 4cc+, no ramp). I then compounded that with an emotional decision, rather than a rational one (in almost every game against OG Jhoira, I end up killing her before her first untap; I *should* have sat on Beast Within, but it just seemed too much of a shame to break the tradition). I never really got off the ground, especially after Etali stole my Terastodon and turned my lands into elephants, and eventually Jhoira won.
Commander 2018 review is up. For the TL;DR crew, they remembered to print green cards this year! Hooray! But, while many are good, none are good for Yeva. Boo!
As for the Seedborn Muse tracker, I had another win flipping her off a lucky Genesis Wave and won the next turn (while using Terastodon/Temur Sabertooth to wreck my opponents' mana bases so they couldn't fight back during the circuit). Seedborn Muse really helped. I should start keeping track of this:
I have considered Vigor, but I'm afraid I think it's a little too niche to play in most high-budget Yeva decks. With the recent reprint, however, it may be worth consideration in some medium to low budget decks.
My main problem is that there are two things Vigor is good at: stopping damage-based removal (Blasphemous Act, Lightning Bolt, etc) and stopping aggro (by providing invincible blockers). In my build, those two areas are well covered by the graveyard recursion and self-bounce protection, just like for non-damage-based removal, and by TurboFrog against attacking decks. As such, Vigor mainly exists as a Big Dumb Green creature, one which isn't needed. I will probably add a blurb about it in the Utility section under "Budget/Meta" as I don't think it's entirely useless, and certainly in a Good Stuff build it could be quite handy, but I don't think it'll end up making the cut for a Yeva build dedicated to abusing her ability.
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In other news, as I was asked to track how often Seedborn Muse figures into my wins, I had two more of those this week. The first one, a 4-player game, didn't see a Muse at all before I was able to win (via Kamahl, Fist of Krosa). The second one I did flip a Muse off a Genesis Wave (cast for x=24 on T6; think that might be a record for the deck), but that was the same turn I won as the Wave also flipped a Craterhoof Behemoth.
Afraid I'm a little more bearish (ha! nerdy economics joke ftw) on Goreclaw in my deck. I rarely want to be playing more than one 4+ power creature in a turn. The cost reduction doesn't hit any of the non-creature spells and less than half of the creatures. Her last clause is underwhelming in a world of Kamahl, Fist of Krosa, Craterhoof Behemoth, and ways to tutor for them. At the 4cc ramp slot, I'd rather run things like Argothian Elder or Ley Weaver.
Still, I can see builds of Yeva where Goreclaw'd be absolutely brutal. I'm ordering a copy (as part of my "buy at least one of every interesting new green card" plan) and I may end up testing it out.
Core Set 2019 review is up. For the TL;DR crew, I'll be testing Vivien Reid, Runic Armasaur, and Elvish Rejuvenator (though not all at the same time). There's quite a few other fun green cards; I'm tempted to make a GIGANTOSAURUS (I looked it up, the correct spelling is all capital letters always) deck with that playset of Greater Goods I got from the Battlebond reprint.
I also updated the list to finally reflect that Strip Mine has replaced Reliquary Tower. There might be another minor change or two coming in the near future.
Without going too much into specifics, as I haven't really evaluated all the cards yet, other things I'm thinking about for Yeva include Force of Vigor, Llanowar Tribe, Springbloom Druid (for budget versions), Elvish Reclaimer (!), Leafkin Druid, and Shared Summons. I also love Wakeroot Elemental's ability to go infinite with Cradle or Nykthos, but it's a bit too clunky and non-synergistic to be included in a fair version of the deck.
My full thoughts on War to the Spork is up. I loved this set. The TL;DR Version: Finale of Devastation replaced Tooth and Nail in the main deck. Nissa, Who Shakes the World is my favorite new card, although it won't be perfect in my deck. There's tons of new and interesting design space being explored. Return to Nature is my second favorite card, because why not just staple cool effects onto an already good card? I have too many decks, but I'm building more. I somehow didn't screw up the formatting in the OP even once. First time for everything! [/tl;dr]
Emergence Zone I like, though not for Yeva. I don't value it too much as a backup plan, especially as it's a one-shot, and would prefer Winding Canyons for that role. Still, there are going to be so many decks where it's insane it's not even funny.
Bond of Flourishing is aaaaalmost there. It's not really card advantage, after all, since it just replaces itself, but the filtering is a nice effect. I think there are probably decks that will want it. If it was an instant, I'd be more interested.
I'm just posting to let everyone know that Finale of Devastation is a bananas card and will be windmill slammed into this deck the exact moment I can get my hands on one. I've plenty of thoughts on the rest of the set, too, but I'll wait for the full spoiler before I start on the set review.
But, yeah...man. Green Sun's Zenith that's also a reanimation spell and can randomly kill the table? I'm in.
It could be a useful piece in some budget versions (not THAT budget...what is it, a $2 uncommon right now?) but I don't see any room for it in tuned versions of the deck. =/
TL;DR version: No snap includes, will playtest Rampage of the Clans.
I also had a chance to get a game in, which has been hard lately with playgroup schedules. Got my rear end thoroughly trounced. Mediocre starting hand that never topdecked any gas, plus double-hated from the word "go." I need to take my own advice about opening hands!
No worries! It's nice to know someone is reading that insane pile of words out front. I went ahead and updated the introduction to include your deck!
A legitimate question, and I probably should have addressed it! I do think Generous Patron has a role in a budget or elf-centric build of Yeva, but I'm not nearly as bullish on it as you are, and I don't think I'd ever include it in my main list. It's fail case -- a mediocre elven body distributing +1/+1 counters to my creatures -- is pretty devastating, and that case is decided by the opponent. If they don't play any creatures, it's useless. Now, it's true a majority of the time your opponents will have creatures, especially in EDH, but I feel there are other, more reliable forms of card draw. Elvish Visionary, for example, provides half the card advantage guaranteed, without a fail case scenario, for one less mana. If it's working for you, I'm glad to hear! One of these times when I do a budget league I'll give it a test out and see if it performs better than my expectations.
All good cards! Man, Ambush Commander...that takes me back to playing multiplayer elves back in college, right about 8th edition. I think it was one of the first singles I ever bought. It's a bit too risky for what I'm doing with my deck, but I'm glad you've found a use for it. Great Oak Guardian is a fantastic card for combo purposes, but I think it's "fair" use (which is what I'd be looking at) is a bit too mediocre. As for Earthcraft, turning my random dudes into dorks usually isn't that big of a deal. If it could untap non-basics, then sure! But I would have to cut a creature for it, and I like to maintain a certain creature density.
Strangely, the card I've been reevaluating most about in this discussion is Gyre Sage. I'm not as bullish on Marwyn, the Nurturer because of her 3cc cost (though in a dedicated elf deck i do like her synergy with Immaculate Magistrate). I don't really have a way to put counters on the Sage outside of its own ability, but T2 Sage -> T3 Yeva -> T4 untap with 6+ mana seems like a similar use case to Priest of Titania, a card I'm never sad to see. I'm going to have to dig up one of my copies and give it a test, probably in the Krosan Restorer slot.
Your build does seem to avoid the worst pitfalls of my build, especially the reliance on the combat phase for realistic wins. However, I do have a few worries with mono-green infinite combo. I worry it's not reliable/redundant enough to be depended on and that it's not as fast or interactive as Ux combinations.
So how do you find the speed of the deck? One of the biggest problems for me in facing true competitive decks is the inability to interact meaningfully in the very early turns, minus some super-lucky draw into Beast Within or something. How does the deck fair, for example, against decks that are looking to combo off T4? I do see your deck is faster, as you're playing with more 1cc dorks. Is that enough to get in the game before the game is over?
I also worry about the dependence on Temur Sabertooth for the combo outlets, as awesome as he is. What's the backup plan for if he gets exiled (I presume from hand/library, as I doubt you'd run him out before absolutely needed)? I will throw out that Concordant Crossroads might be a good add. Haste for everything seems to work in your favor, plus you can dump the whole deck and swing if your other combo outlets are "dealt with".
Finally, a few pages back, osieorb18 mentioned the infinite mana combo of Maze of Ith and Argothian Elder (or any double land untapper). It's only in the combat phase, of course, but with Yeva that doesn't really matter. Would that make a good addition to your "big dorks"? I know spending a land drop on something that doesn't make mana sucks, but it could add some extra redundancy to the combo.
I do really like this deck, and I hope you are having good luck with it! Make sure to keep us up to date.
You're absolutely right about both Beast Whisperer and Bramble Sovereign. I've (at long last) gotten around to posting my Guilds of Ravnica review (for the TL;DR folks: I'm bored of Ravnica but Beast Whisperer is money) and I went ahead and formally updated the Bramble Sovereign replacing Acidic Slime that I've been playing with for a while.
Vivien Reid is a great card I've been playing with in other decks, and she was originally slated to test in Garruk, Primal Hunter's slot. But then, before I had a chance to play any Yeva games with her, Beast Whisperer came out and that spot was spoken for. I'm not sure that I like her better than Primordial Sage just because I like a good creature density and, like Garruk, she can only do work at sorcery speed. But I'll agree she is a bomb in other green decks.
Good hunting!
Also, many of the creatures the deck is looking for (Temur Sabertooth, Seedborn Muse, Craterhoof Behemoth, etc) are high-CC creatures. The investment of resources in mana with the high-risk, high-reward mana package makes their CC less relevant, but Yisan would have to untap five times before he could fetch out a Muse. The other tutors in the deck are either less conditional or faster or both; Yisa doesn't stand a chance in a straight up competition against Chord of Calling, for example.
It is true that any creature can eat removal; that's why Yeva's plan involves saving creatures from removal, either by bouncing them to hand or by reviving them from the graveyard. Unfortunately, either one of those plans resets Yisan, making it unlikely he will ever get out of the 1-2 mana cost area.
Yisan is an extremely powerful card in his own deck, which will have been optimized to best take advantage of his powerful recurring tutor through untap effects and a strict CC curve. Yeva is simply a very different deck, focused more on immediate board impact, control, and an overwhelming combat finish.
Now of course every opinion is subjective, and every deck is different. It is very possible to build a Yeva deck to take advantage of Yisan's unique abilities, but then you'd probably be better off just building a Yisan deck.
I was able to play for the first time in about a month the other night.
The first game (against Meren of Clan Nel toth and Jhoira, Weatherlight Captain) was perfectly on game plan for Yeva. A T-1 Mana Crypt led into a Elvish Rejuvenator (finding a forest). A land drop on T-2 saw Yeva drop. T-3 dropped Beast Whisperer, a Crop Rotation for Gaea's Cradle, and Hope Tender. T-4 I dropped all sorts of creatures, cantripping off them, and T-5 Green Sun's Zenith into Craterhoof Behemoth for the win. It was close to a God-hand, plus some lucky topdecks, so I wouldn't draw too many lessons from it. No Seedborn Muse involved.
The second game (against Jhoira of the Ghitu, Etali, Primal Storm, and Karador, Ghost Chieftain) flew off the rails pretty early. Because I felt bad about the first game, I kept a hand I shouldn't have (all 4cc+, no ramp). I then compounded that with an emotional decision, rather than a rational one (in almost every game against OG Jhoira, I end up killing her before her first untap; I *should* have sat on Beast Within, but it just seemed too much of a shame to break the tradition). I never really got off the ground, especially after Etali stole my Terastodon and turned my lands into elephants, and eventually Jhoira won.
Updating the counter,
As for the Seedborn Muse tracker, I had another win flipping her off a lucky Genesis Wave and won the next turn (while using Terastodon/Temur Sabertooth to wreck my opponents' mana bases so they couldn't fight back during the circuit). Seedborn Muse really helped. I should start keeping track of this:
I have considered Vigor, but I'm afraid I think it's a little too niche to play in most high-budget Yeva decks. With the recent reprint, however, it may be worth consideration in some medium to low budget decks.
My main problem is that there are two things Vigor is good at: stopping damage-based removal (Blasphemous Act, Lightning Bolt, etc) and stopping aggro (by providing invincible blockers). In my build, those two areas are well covered by the graveyard recursion and self-bounce protection, just like for non-damage-based removal, and by TurboFrog against attacking decks. As such, Vigor mainly exists as a Big Dumb Green creature, one which isn't needed. I will probably add a blurb about it in the Utility section under "Budget/Meta" as I don't think it's entirely useless, and certainly in a Good Stuff build it could be quite handy, but I don't think it'll end up making the cut for a Yeva build dedicated to abusing her ability.
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In other news, as I was asked to track how often Seedborn Muse figures into my wins, I had two more of those this week. The first one, a 4-player game, didn't see a Muse at all before I was able to win (via Kamahl, Fist of Krosa). The second one I did flip a Muse off a Genesis Wave (cast for x=24 on T6; think that might be a record for the deck), but that was the same turn I won as the Wave also flipped a Craterhoof Behemoth.
Cheers, all.
Still, I can see builds of Yeva where Goreclaw'd be absolutely brutal. I'm ordering a copy (as part of my "buy at least one of every interesting new green card" plan) and I may end up testing it out.
I also updated the list to finally reflect that Strip Mine has replaced Reliquary Tower. There might be another minor change or two coming in the near future.