Liberalism is losing appeal to capital in favour of fascism, what with Clinton's comical failure to secure the position the Democrats had given up most other politics for, and losing appeal to workers due to its insistence on punching leftwards.
Actually sounds to me like he's saying democrats are losing voters because the party is becoming increasing left, not because the party isn't left enough for voters.
Everything people claim to be wrong with the DNC are mostly reasons to choose the democratic party- they have an established position of power in the larger sociopolitical environment- with the media, with voters, with businesses, etc. A new party would not have a well of support to fall back on.
An established position they used to; lose to Donald Trump. lmao.
An established position they used to lose to another party with an established position that they have lost to in the past and still came back to win future elections. Yeah, clearly the party is collapsing.
I agree. This is just the democrats facing adversity, there's no reason to call that they are collapsing or something, at the VERY least, not yet.
I think the bit about globalisation is particularly important, especially when you look at similar issues- the world has changed quite a lot in the last century and it seems not everyone is on the same page about where exactly that leaves us. We are facing new issues and there's going to be confusion around them- I think that's part of what we are seeing with politics right now, especially on the audience side.
The Democratic Party is facing more than simply adversity, it's facing a struggle for what it should even represent. If the centrist leadership wins then the party will fade away.
That's a pretty bold claim to make with no data to back it up.
I'll be needing data personally.
I'm not convinced that trying to take over the Democratic Party is worth it, not the least because the DNC is the party, so we're more likely to see something new instead.
Everything people claim to be wrong with the DNC are mostly reasons to choose the democratic party- they have an established position of power in the larger sociopolitical environment- with the media, with voters, with businesses, etc. A new party would not have a well of support to fall back on.
You are looking at the election results without much context. Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania are traditionally safe states for Democrats.
No, they are states that lean Democrat. They are not, for example, California. And both Michigan and Pennsylvania went red in 1988.
You brush off the results by thinking "oh, this isn't bad, this was damn close" but I see otherwise.
Then maybe you should try looking at voter percentages.
Second, and more importantly, Democrats have been getting clobbered in non-presidential races. Don't just focus on the presidential race. Republicans have won so many seats at the state and federal level that they are actually extremely close to being able to call a constitutional convention. They are only ~1-2 state legislatures away from having the power to amend the Constitution.
And the Dems came into power after Bush with a filibuster-proof majority. People were declaring the GOP dead during that time. How many times, I wonder, does this need to happen before declaring a party dead is recognized as a premature reaction?
Have you seen what is happening with the West? There is absolutely a massive populist revolt going on in multiple countries. We had Brexit in the UK and Trump getting elected in the US. France and the Netherlands are likely going to be the next countries to go through this same "stick it to the man" wave. I fully expect Marine Le Pen and Geert Wilders to win their respective elections now that they're energized by what has happened in the Anglosphere.
Yes, in reaction to an increasingly globalized world and the new challenges it brings, there are movements within many countries that represent a backlash against it in the form of a retreat towards nativism.
None of that makes the Democrats finished.
Hell, right now there's increasing concern amongst the "coal country" voters about whether or not they'll lose the health benefits granted to them by the Affordable Care Act. The Republicans' next move on the healthcare issue will play a major role in determining whether these voters will continue to support the Republicans or feel a sense of betrayal and actively oppose them.
Which brings us to the thing that really needs to be driven home: we are FIVE DAYS into 2017. So maybe, just maybe, it's a tad bit too premature to declare the Republicans the winners of the 2020 election when they're not even a week into this current presidency. Right?
I agree. This is just the democrats facing adversity, there's no reason to call that they are collapsing or something, at the VERY least, not yet.
I think the bit about globalisation is particularly important, especially when you look at similar issues- the world has changed quite a lot in the last century and it seems not everyone is on the same page about where exactly that leaves us. We are facing new issues and there's going to be confusion around them- I think that's part of what we are seeing with politics right now, especially on the audience side.
Second, and more importantly, Democrats have been getting clobbered in non-presidential races. Don't just focus on the presidential race. Republicans have won so many seats at the state and federal level that they are actually extremely close to being able to call a constitutional convention. They are only ~1-2 state legislatures away from having the power to amend the Constitution.
It's a little scary to consider since that could lead to a second civil war or worse. Though from the sounds of some of the alt-right rhetoric, they wouldn't mind that.
Oh, I've heard explicit talk of another civil war from white nationalist sort of people. There's definitely people who would make that happen if they could and similarly minded others who would allow it to happen.
Apparently, whatever your other reasons were, one of them was because Trump not knowing what he was doing, and Trump being crazy - so much so as to evoke conspiracy theories that he was some kind of Democratic plant installed to ensure Hillary's victory - really didn't bother you all that much.
Because it was funny. I was rooting so hard for Trump to win Florida and when he did it... wow, what a feeling. Never thought he would actually take it all. I might not have rooted for that if I knew. But again, it was him or Hillary so whatever really.
This really doesn't seem like a productive attitude.
Evidently 63 million people really weren't bothered by it either.
I love that. I don't like Trump but yeah, this is why America is awesome. We just did something insane that is going to truly harm this country but really freak out leftists, the political elites in Europe, Canada, etc. We're doing this out of spite, for giggles, you know...
...And this seems like a resentful and malicious attitude.
Even better /s.
A perfectly fair point, but I have no confidence that the people who are apathetic enough to not vote are actually significantly less informed than those who do. Whether someone votes tells us whether they are motivated and have an opinion, it doesn't tell use whether they are informed or reasonable.
True, but I think it's reasonable to say that someone who does not vote out of a lack of interest in participating in the election is less likely than someone who plans on voting to have put the time into doing the necessary research to have an informed opinion, on the grounds that the person who is not voting out of a lack of interest in participating in the election is not interested.
They may be not interested though because they are informed but aren't happy with things so lack the confidence to make them go to the effort of doing it.
And being interested in the election can end up being worse if they are interested at least in part because of any sort of malicious intent.
In a republic democracy society like what the US experiences having AT BEST a 66% voter turn out is extremely bad.
This is an excellent point, and I completely agree. Voter apathy is a problem in any republic, especially ours in an election like this. It's ridiculous to have so many people not vote.
THAT BEING SAID, I posit that if you have a voter populace that is that apathetic, to the point where in such a monumental election, they still couldn't be bothered to show up [presuming they weren't disenfranchised, which is a completely separate issue, though one absolutely worth addressing], for them to fail to turn out to vote is actually the best case scenario.
Well, not the BEST case scenario, the best case scenario is to have 100% of all people eligible to vote to be mature, responsible people who did the proper research, put enough effort to really think about the election, and then turned out to vote. But we don't have that kind of best case scenario, and in such a reality, far worse is for apathetic voters who did not take the time and the care to ensure that they were properly informed of the issues behind this election to then go ahead and vote. It is far worse for people who are not willing to think to vote than not vote.
A perfectly fair point, but I have no confidence that the people who are apathetic enough to not vote are actually significantly less informed than those who do. Whether someone votes tells us whether they are motivated and have an opinion, it doesn't tell use whether they are informed or reasonable.
And people will always be able to not properly vote or incur fees rather than vote, even if making a vote is mandatory. People already do even when voting is entirely voluntary.
So I'm not sure whether voluntary voting improves the quality of the vote.
Actually sounds to me like he's saying democrats are losing voters because the party is becoming increasing left, not because the party isn't left enough for voters.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
An established position they used to lose to another party with an established position that they have lost to in the past and still came back to win future elections. Yeah, clearly the party is collapsing.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
That's a pretty bold claim to make with no data to back it up.
I'll be needing data personally.
Everything people claim to be wrong with the DNC are mostly reasons to choose the democratic party- they have an established position of power in the larger sociopolitical environment- with the media, with voters, with businesses, etc. A new party would not have a well of support to fall back on.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
I agree. This is just the democrats facing adversity, there's no reason to call that they are collapsing or something, at the VERY least, not yet.
I think the bit about globalisation is particularly important, especially when you look at similar issues- the world has changed quite a lot in the last century and it seems not everyone is on the same page about where exactly that leaves us. We are facing new issues and there's going to be confusion around them- I think that's part of what we are seeing with politics right now, especially on the audience side.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
Oh, I've heard explicit talk of another civil war from white nationalist sort of people. There's definitely people who would make that happen if they could and similarly minded others who would allow it to happen.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
This really doesn't seem like a productive attitude.
...And this seems like a resentful and malicious attitude.
Even better /s.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
They may be not interested though because they are informed but aren't happy with things so lack the confidence to make them go to the effort of doing it.
And being interested in the election can end up being worse if they are interested at least in part because of any sort of malicious intent.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
A perfectly fair point, but I have no confidence that the people who are apathetic enough to not vote are actually significantly less informed than those who do. Whether someone votes tells us whether they are motivated and have an opinion, it doesn't tell use whether they are informed or reasonable.
And people will always be able to not properly vote or incur fees rather than vote, even if making a vote is mandatory. People already do even when voting is entirely voluntary.
So I'm not sure whether voluntary voting improves the quality of the vote.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice