i hate to do this, but in my experience, that sounds like the exact kinda thing that people who've never tried/experienced it in real life would say. Think about MLD against ramp like this:
ramp deck sinks mana and tempo into ramping out lands, emptying their hand and thinning their deck of lands. MLD hits. their GY is filled with a lot of their lands and ramp spells, and their deck is significantly thinner. how is that NOT an effective way of reigning in ramp? a lot of people who seem (at least to me) to like theorycrafting how it'd work in reality seem to think that their hand will be filled with kodama's reach, cultivate and whatever other ramp spells - but that is almost never the case; the ramp player's ramp spells are usually all in the GY, since their strategic advantage is to play the mid-late game when everyone else is still in the early game.
The myth that MLD doesn't stop ramp is something that a lot of players seem to just take as fact and never put it to the test. If ramp is a problem in your meta, sprinkle some MLD in your decks and watch the game swing vastly in your favour.
The biggest problem with MLD is when players who use it don't use it strategically enough. its a somewhat skilltesting card type, in that you need to know when to blow it all up, and when to hold it. if your opponent has a veteran explorer on the board, you might wanna consider not blowing it all up. you want to sandbag a couple of lands in your hand before you blow it all up. heck, you might even want to make sure that your average CMC is low enough that you don't need more than 5-6 lands realistically in play at any one time.
another thing is that at least in my group, i used to be the guy who was the MLD guy, as in i'd have a deck that was just MLD. that isn't fun for anyone. the best thing is to employ MLD as a support pillar for your main strategy in your deck. in my kaalia build, i want to get kaalia out as fast as i can, then blow up all the lands, then hopefully i can race their life totals before the other players can deal with the situation. my strategy ISNT to blow up the lands and hope that my deck will kill the table.
the other myth i think is that if you blow a MLD, you should end the game soon after. if you build your deck with a CMC of 6+ just because you think you can lean that heavily on your ramp to get you there, the problem is in your deck construction, not the MLD. if you think you can lean on one pillar of your strategy so heavily and expect it not to get disrupted, and not have a plan B, you can't honestly fault anyone else but yourself for that. do people here remember the ol' kitchen table magic? remember one of those ultra important theory of sandbagging lands in your hand? of making sure that you dont overextend? dont show off all your cards and bank everything on one out? its like EDH players think that none of that applies anymore, because 100 cards somehow offsets it from the 40 or 60 card deck.
its not a cardinal sin by any means, even if you dont plan to win immediately afterwards. the cardinal sin is that players skew their decks to only play in the late game by ramping there, and expect all other players to let them do that. if that's the case, why not call wraths a cardinal sin, as they delay creature decks from employing their strategy, or counterspells as a cardinal sin cuz they stop spells from happening on the stack?
if a simple and well-timed armageddon, blood moon or pox can wreck your entire game every time, its time to rethink your deck a bit.
yes, it stops ramp decks if its a surprise, but it slows the ramp decks down enough that everyone is still essentially in the same 'period' of the game (early game/early-mid game) instead of the ramp player playing late game threats while the rest of the table are still deploying early game things. To me, that means that the MLD has done part of its job already. the problem with ramp isn't that they are mana-flooded all the time; its that they are mana flooded too early in the game.
sure stax and tax effects help tone ramp decks down, but it usually requires a deck to be pretty much all-in on it for it to work effectively. MLD isn't the primary focus of most decks that play MLD, its merely one facet that helps support the rest of the deck. i think we're in agreement though that MLD isn't a bad thing in magic; its mostly gotten a bad rap from being badly employed/badly timed/not fitting with a deck's strategy, so on.
On the other though, MLD has a purpose. It is meant to reign in things like mass ramp. It is meant to punish over extending on land ramp, like how a wrath punishes overextending on creatures and board presence. Like,nothing is more annoying than that Azusa deck that will have 8-9 lands on turn 3-4 and dropping Titans when most people are still trying to get their board state situated, not having any way to stop them because the table banned MLD. I have seen many decks that abuse the general rule of no MLD to have an untouchable field advantage that becomes neigh impossible to stop.
I think this actually isnt true. Decks that ramp like that are the best setup to recover from MLD. And if you are casting it that early you either have a LOT and don't really care when its cast, or you got lucky.
i hate to do this, but in my experience, that sounds like the exact kinda thing that people who've never tried/experienced it in real life would say. Think about MLD against ramp like this:
ramp deck sinks mana and tempo into ramping out lands, emptying their hand and thinning their deck of lands. MLD hits. their GY is filled with a lot of their lands and ramp spells, and their deck is significantly thinner. how is that NOT an effective way of reigning in ramp? a lot of people who seem (at least to me) to like theorycrafting how it'd work in reality seem to think that their hand will be filled with kodama's reach, cultivate and whatever other ramp spells - but that is almost never the case; the ramp player's ramp spells are usually all in the GY, since their strategic advantage is to play the mid-late game when everyone else is still in the early game.
The myth that MLD doesn't stop ramp is something that a lot of players seem to just take as fact and never put it to the test. If ramp is a problem in your meta, sprinkle some MLD in your decks and watch the game swing vastly in your favour.
The biggest problem with MLD is when players who use it don't use it strategically enough. its a somewhat skilltesting card type, in that you need to know when to blow it all up, and when to hold it. if your opponent has a veteran explorer on the board, you might wanna consider not blowing it all up. you want to sandbag a couple of lands in your hand before you blow it all up. heck, you might even want to make sure that your average CMC is low enough that you don't need more than 5-6 lands realistically in play at any one time.
another thing is that at least in my group, i used to be the guy who was the MLD guy, as in i'd have a deck that was just MLD. that isn't fun for anyone. the best thing is to employ MLD as a support pillar for your main strategy in your deck. in my kaalia build, i want to get kaalia out as fast as i can, then blow up all the lands, then hopefully i can race their life totals before the other players can deal with the situation. my strategy ISNT to blow up the lands and hope that my deck will kill the table.
the other myth i think is that if you blow a MLD, you should end the game soon after. if you build your deck with a CMC of 6+ just because you think you can lean that heavily on your ramp to get you there, the problem is in your deck construction, not the MLD. if you think you can lean on one pillar of your strategy so heavily and expect it not to get disrupted, and not have a plan B, you can't honestly fault anyone else but yourself for that. do people here remember the ol' kitchen table magic? remember one of those ultra important theory of sandbagging lands in your hand? of making sure that you dont overextend? dont show off all your cards and bank everything on one out? its like EDH players think that none of that applies anymore, because 100 cards somehow offsets it from the 40 or 60 card deck.
its not a cardinal sin by any means, even if you dont plan to win immediately afterwards. the cardinal sin is that players skew their decks to only play in the late game by ramping there, and expect all other players to let them do that. if that's the case, why not call wraths a cardinal sin, as they delay creature decks from employing their strategy, or counterspells as a cardinal sin cuz they stop spells from happening on the stack?
if a simple and well-timed armageddon, blood moon or pox can wreck your entire game every time, its time to rethink your deck a bit.
yes, it stops ramp decks if its a surprise, but it slows the ramp decks down enough that everyone is still essentially in the same 'period' of the game (early game/early-mid game) instead of the ramp player playing late game threats while the rest of the table are still deploying early game things. To me, that means that the MLD has done part of its job already. the problem with ramp isn't that they are mana-flooded all the time; its that they are mana flooded too early in the game.
sure stax and tax effects help tone ramp decks down, but it usually requires a deck to be pretty much all-in on it for it to work effectively. MLD isn't the primary focus of most decks that play MLD, its merely one facet that helps support the rest of the deck. i think we're in agreement though that MLD isn't a bad thing in magic; its mostly gotten a bad rap from being badly employed/badly timed/not fitting with a deck's strategy, so on.
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
i hate to do this, but in my experience, that sounds like the exact kinda thing that people who've never tried/experienced it in real life would say. Think about MLD against ramp like this:
ramp deck sinks mana and tempo into ramping out lands, emptying their hand and thinning their deck of lands. MLD hits. their GY is filled with a lot of their lands and ramp spells, and their deck is significantly thinner. how is that NOT an effective way of reigning in ramp? a lot of people who seem (at least to me) to like theorycrafting how it'd work in reality seem to think that their hand will be filled with kodama's reach, cultivate and whatever other ramp spells - but that is almost never the case; the ramp player's ramp spells are usually all in the GY, since their strategic advantage is to play the mid-late game when everyone else is still in the early game.
The myth that MLD doesn't stop ramp is something that a lot of players seem to just take as fact and never put it to the test. If ramp is a problem in your meta, sprinkle some MLD in your decks and watch the game swing vastly in your favour.
The biggest problem with MLD is when players who use it don't use it strategically enough. its a somewhat skilltesting card type, in that you need to know when to blow it all up, and when to hold it. if your opponent has a veteran explorer on the board, you might wanna consider not blowing it all up. you want to sandbag a couple of lands in your hand before you blow it all up. heck, you might even want to make sure that your average CMC is low enough that you don't need more than 5-6 lands realistically in play at any one time.
another thing is that at least in my group, i used to be the guy who was the MLD guy, as in i'd have a deck that was just MLD. that isn't fun for anyone. the best thing is to employ MLD as a support pillar for your main strategy in your deck. in my kaalia build, i want to get kaalia out as fast as i can, then blow up all the lands, then hopefully i can race their life totals before the other players can deal with the situation. my strategy ISNT to blow up the lands and hope that my deck will kill the table.
the other myth i think is that if you blow a MLD, you should end the game soon after. if you build your deck with a CMC of 6+ just because you think you can lean that heavily on your ramp to get you there, the problem is in your deck construction, not the MLD. if you think you can lean on one pillar of your strategy so heavily and expect it not to get disrupted, and not have a plan B, you can't honestly fault anyone else but yourself for that. do people here remember the ol' kitchen table magic? remember one of those ultra important theory of sandbagging lands in your hand? of making sure that you dont overextend? dont show off all your cards and bank everything on one out? its like EDH players think that none of that applies anymore, because 100 cards somehow offsets it from the 40 or 60 card deck.
its not a cardinal sin by any means, even if you dont plan to win immediately afterwards. the cardinal sin is that players skew their decks to only play in the late game by ramping there, and expect all other players to let them do that. if that's the case, why not call wraths a cardinal sin, as they delay creature decks from employing their strategy, or counterspells as a cardinal sin cuz they stop spells from happening on the stack?
if a simple and well-timed armageddon, blood moon or pox can wreck your entire game every time, its time to rethink your deck a bit.
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom