The deck is definitely not dead and actually has seen a bit of success recently. It's definitely not a tier 1 deck, but can do strong in large tournaments with a bit of luck. As someone mentioned earlier, the forum is a bit dead due to a lack of innovation to the build. People are entertaining ideas as R or G splashes, but the majority can still say Mono-Black is the most consistent and most powerful for right now. There are micro tuning based on type of tournament one wants to enter and the expected meta you face (Minds vs CB's MB, SB adjustments, 4/3 Thoughtseize/IOK split, etc.)
You run 4 urborg 4 muta ? Or 3/3? Pack rat is very slow
4/4 in main. Run 13 Swamps, 2 Polluted Delta's, 4 Mutavaults, 4 Urborg. You could also run Nezumi Shortfang as an option as that has seen some play but very rarely. Pack Rat you say is "very" slow; however, if your opponent cannot deal with it in 2 turns the game is over. With the exhaustion from discard, Rats can be very threatening. That is why many choose to run 3-4 in their Sideboard as a creature package.
lately I have bad results. Many times I miss some other winn condition. many times I lose the game because I do not have raven's crime or because I do not have dakmor salvage cover. in many games only discarded insured by turn and you can fail the landrop. I think I'll play with 23 lands and a tombstalker of mb. any suggestion?
I've been running 23 lands for quite some time now. I do believe that is the correct amount of lands for the deck without having issue in flooding. You may wanna try running the likes of say 2 Pack Rats main as another Win Con?
I haven't played 8 rack in awhile, but am thinking of bringing it back but have seen a increase in 5c humans. IS this a bad matchup for us? They play similar to affinity which I recall being a bad matchup for us, but they growing bigger and wider faster. Just wanted to get your guys' opinion
With a rise in swarm decks, I've began to maindeck Bontu's as a result. The match up is not as awful as it seems
You could also -2 Lilly to trade with a creature, and then follow up with a Fatal Push to take another one. It's a desperate trade, but it's sometimes worth it.
Also, 80% of the time or so, we don't really need to trigger Revolt.
This is normally the case. Most problematic creatures cost less than 2 regardless. Prime example, creatures like BoB, DS, Goyf, Snap, Majority of Humans/Merfolk in either of those decks.
That's not a bad idea. Sometimes Lili is dead regardless and this way uses her to your benefit. Good play!
Yes, you have to be aware of the multiple ways of enabling Revolt; however, this should not be a priority most the time. As mentioned, 80% of the problematic creatures that decks run are CMC 2 or less.
When playing 8-rack how do you folks turn on Revolt for Fatal Push? I see these 4 ways, which still feels too few:
Urborg Legend rule
Fetching using the lone Marsh Flats or Bloodstained Mire
One of your Mutavaults dieing in combat
Smallpox destroying one of your lands
Am I missing other ways to trigger Revolt?
Actually, most lists are running more than 1 Fetch now. Also consider the likes of Creatures post sideboard. I've seen some lists even running up to 5 Fetches.
So it appears the new Blood Sun will be a card that may affect tier decks in the modern meta. As for now, the only land we have that gets hurt is Manavault and potential fetches. Urborg does not get effected due to layers (Urborg is layer 4 and Blood Sun is layer 6)
I will experiment with him as a 1-2 of for now and let you all know. Just thought he was neat and I've always liked the idea of a R/B 8rack with Blighting, K-command, etc.
B/R 8-Rack has existed in the past. The issue is our strategy finds us usually dumping our hand fairly quickly and stopping at 3-4 lands on the battlefield most the time. It'll definitely be a very cool build around in a B/R Control build, but just think it is too mana intensive and costly for 8-Rack in terms of strategy.
I was very pleased to see Angrath as it pushes for a possible B/R Control build instead of the typical aggro deck we see with Rakdos colors. Instead of seeing likes of Aggro, you might see a B/R control deck with Wrench Mind and Crimes here. It'll be interesting to see what comes out from this.
As for this into 8-Rack decks? The answer is no. At 5 CMC, the card is just way to expensive for us to use. It's a fun planeswalker but not for 8-Rack.
Do you sideboard out 4x Smallpox if you board in your creature package?
The answer to this question is it depends; however, the majority of the time, the answer is no. Pox can completely wreck an opponents gameplan if they get hit early on. creatures may not necessarily hit the floor early, as you still want to stay on course with the decks overall plan of discard. Once you notice your opponent seems to be falling behind because of pox or discard, then drop your creature and begin wrecking havoc on them.
Haven't read through the forum, but would it be okay to get rid of small pox. Add ensnaring bridge. And splash green for ancient stirrings.helos you find your lock and kill. And than we have a green splash for decay, pulse . I'm fairly new to the deck. But since ancient stirrings is just crazy, I was wondering if it fit.
So this is a very common question when it comes to the deck itself, what type of strategy you want to implement to slow your opponent down. The Ensnaring Bridge build is common; however, many and the majority agree that the Mono-Black Pox build is the most consistent and effective build. This does not mean that Bridge is not good, but just not as effective. A Green splash does exist for Decay, Stirrings, and even sideboard cards like Naturalize. My advice to you, test it out and see how you like it. It is most important that the deck suits your style of play, and not the rest. Personally with all Modern and even Constructed formats, the deck that you can master and compliment your style of play the most will majority of the time show you more success.
What does everyone thing of 3 Dark confidant in SB? Against trobulesome decks that are hard to discard like any variants of Tron. And also Lantern control, considering its rise in popularity. Opponents will side out most of the creature removal, making bob stick to the board. Plus it acts as an wincon against lantern with no bridges postboard.
Bob is an option; however, it mainly presents itself in the Bridge version of 8-Rack. I very rarely see it being played, but there are other options you can bring in. For example, Pack Rat or Asylum Visitor is very popular. I am on the Pack Rat option as if they do not have an answer to deal with Pack Rat, then it will be over very soon for my opponent.
Lantern Control shouldn't ever be a problem against us period. Game 1 we basically already have them doing what we want them to do, so if we drop the Rack or Shrieking Affliction on them, then it is pretty much good game. After sideboards, we bring in our creature package and a flex card while removing our own Creature Removal (Dismember, Fatal, Bontu's).
If you check my list, I run 5 creatures in my sideboard: 4x Pack Rat, 1x Death's Shadow. You try to keep your creature package around 4-5. Sometimes you see people running 2x Death's Shadow and 2x Asylum Visitor others run 4x Pack Rat lone.
Sorry to hear about the performance, but hey that is how we learn to play the deck! I agree, the Smallpox plan is clearly the way to go because of the shear amount of artifact hate that will become boarded in. Smallpox has a severely crippling effect early on to many decks and it is one of the ways we try and beat Tron with it. I understand why Bridge would be appealing with the amount of aggro builds and creature heavy builds in the modern meta; however, I found maining 1 Bontu's is a necessity along with the Pox plan. It appears also that CB may not be what you want to run with in the MB if you do not expect a lot of burn. How did the Rat plan go for you when you did play them out?
Collective Brutality is a very nice card in my deck because it helps me to run out of cards for bridge if needed and is a (nonpremiun) targeted removal. In nonbridge builds I prefer Collective Brutality in the sideboard.
Rat plan has worked pretty well for me always. In GP Madrid I sideboarded rats vs Abzan in second games choosing to start and they gave me a win. I also used them vs Bogles because of they are nice against Leyline of Sanctity and would have used vs The Rock if I would have lost a game and could play first.
Yeah, I've found that with the shear amount of Aggro and builds that are creature heavy, Bontu's even with the timewalk is such a beating for our opponent that we find ourselves ahead 90% of the time. I've pitched both my CB's to the Side which I agree with you, very good against Burn builds, but pretty much it. Do you have an idea on the Pox list you are looking to run?
If not, feel free to check my list in my signature for a general basis to the deck. There are a few flex slots you can play around with along with your sideboard to fit your meta, but the general skeleton to the deck is there.
Excellent run with the deck. The deck itself looks pretty stock outside Infernal Tutor. I can see your argument to dropping down to 2 Thoughtseize, my question is why not replace the 3rd Thoughtseize with 1 Blackmail instead of the 3rd Funeral Charm? I also can see your concern with the greediness of 4 Mutavaults/4 Urborg, but don't you think that Mutavaults are very important and extra Urborgs can be pitched if need be?
Thanks!
didnt think of blackmail, i will have to try it
3/3 instead of 4/4 its to avoid drawing multiples early, when you have only seen 1/6 of the deck and might be low on lands, maybe its easier to run 4/4 with 24 lands
But wouldn't you argue that Mutavault at the very least is one of your win-conditions? Mutavault's versatility is so strong for us against several of these meta decks. Trading a Champion for a Mutavault, setting a blocker for Lilli, Beat down? I can see why you'd drop to 3 Urborg as it can at times be cloggy, but I really believe 4 Mutavaults are very necessary.
11-3 at gp madrid with 8rack! good for 11th place, it was teams but my record was also 11-3
Congrats man!!
I played the same event with a very poor record: 4-5
Finally, I played a Ensnaring Bridge version, removing most of removal as we commented here. I tested in mtgo several leagues before the event and had decent results finishing 3-2 in most of them.
Played against:
R1: Abzan (0-2)
R2: Storm (2-0)
R3: Abzan (1-2) - Rat plan won me the second game
R4: Bogles (1-2) - really missed smallpox here
R5: Jeskay (1-2)
R6: Eldrazi Tron (2-0)
R7: Merfolk (1-2) - Don't let them play first if you go on the bridge plan, I could have won this match just playing first.
R8: The Rock (2-0)
R9: Scapeshift (2-1)
I always chose to draw first except when I went into the rat plan after sideboarding.
Seems pretty obvious that Smallpox plan is the way to go instead bridge plan but I think the main problem I had, were some mistakes I made.
Sorry to hear about the performance, but hey that is how we learn to play the deck! I agree, the Smallpox plan is clearly the way to go because of the shear amount of artifact hate that will become boarded in. Smallpox has a severely crippling effect early on to many decks and it is one of the ways we try and beat Tron with it. I understand why Bridge would be appealing with the amount of aggro builds and creature heavy builds in the modern meta; however, I found maining 1 Bontu's is a necessity along with the Pox plan. It appears also that CB may not be what you want to run with in the MB if you do not expect a lot of burn. How did the Rat plan go for you when you did play them out?
BB8-RackBB
Pauper:
UUDelverlUU
4/4 in main. Run 13 Swamps, 2 Polluted Delta's, 4 Mutavaults, 4 Urborg. You could also run Nezumi Shortfang as an option as that has seen some play but very rarely. Pack Rat you say is "very" slow; however, if your opponent cannot deal with it in 2 turns the game is over. With the exhaustion from discard, Rats can be very threatening. That is why many choose to run 3-4 in their Sideboard as a creature package.
BB8-RackBB
Pauper:
UUDelverlUU
I've been running 23 lands for quite some time now. I do believe that is the correct amount of lands for the deck without having issue in flooding. You may wanna try running the likes of say 2 Pack Rats main as another Win Con?
BB8-RackBB
Pauper:
UUDelverlUU
With a rise in swarm decks, I've began to maindeck Bontu's as a result. The match up is not as awful as it seems
BB8-RackBB
Pauper:
UUDelverlUU
This is normally the case. Most problematic creatures cost less than 2 regardless. Prime example, creatures like BoB, DS, Goyf, Snap, Majority of Humans/Merfolk in either of those decks.
Yes, you have to be aware of the multiple ways of enabling Revolt; however, this should not be a priority most the time. As mentioned, 80% of the problematic creatures that decks run are CMC 2 or less.
BB8-RackBB
Pauper:
UUDelverlUU
Actually, most lists are running more than 1 Fetch now. Also consider the likes of Creatures post sideboard. I've seen some lists even running up to 5 Fetches.
BB8-RackBB
Pauper:
UUDelverlUU
BB8-RackBB
Pauper:
UUDelverlUU
B/R 8-Rack has existed in the past. The issue is our strategy finds us usually dumping our hand fairly quickly and stopping at 3-4 lands on the battlefield most the time. It'll definitely be a very cool build around in a B/R Control build, but just think it is too mana intensive and costly for 8-Rack in terms of strategy.
BB8-RackBB
Pauper:
UUDelverlUU
As for this into 8-Rack decks? The answer is no. At 5 CMC, the card is just way to expensive for us to use. It's a fun planeswalker but not for 8-Rack.
BB8-RackBB
Pauper:
UUDelverlUU
The answer to this question is it depends; however, the majority of the time, the answer is no. Pox can completely wreck an opponents gameplan if they get hit early on. creatures may not necessarily hit the floor early, as you still want to stay on course with the decks overall plan of discard. Once you notice your opponent seems to be falling behind because of pox or discard, then drop your creature and begin wrecking havoc on them.
BB8-RackBB
Pauper:
UUDelverlUU
So this is a very common question when it comes to the deck itself, what type of strategy you want to implement to slow your opponent down. The Ensnaring Bridge build is common; however, many and the majority agree that the Mono-Black Pox build is the most consistent and effective build. This does not mean that Bridge is not good, but just not as effective. A Green splash does exist for Decay, Stirrings, and even sideboard cards like Naturalize. My advice to you, test it out and see how you like it. It is most important that the deck suits your style of play, and not the rest. Personally with all Modern and even Constructed formats, the deck that you can master and compliment your style of play the most will majority of the time show you more success.
BB8-RackBB
Pauper:
UUDelverlUU
Bob is an option; however, it mainly presents itself in the Bridge version of 8-Rack. I very rarely see it being played, but there are other options you can bring in. For example, Pack Rat or Asylum Visitor is very popular. I am on the Pack Rat option as if they do not have an answer to deal with Pack Rat, then it will be over very soon for my opponent.
Lantern Control shouldn't ever be a problem against us period. Game 1 we basically already have them doing what we want them to do, so if we drop the Rack or Shrieking Affliction on them, then it is pretty much good game. After sideboards, we bring in our creature package and a flex card while removing our own Creature Removal (Dismember, Fatal, Bontu's).
If you check my list, I run 5 creatures in my sideboard: 4x Pack Rat, 1x Death's Shadow. You try to keep your creature package around 4-5. Sometimes you see people running 2x Death's Shadow and 2x Asylum Visitor others run 4x Pack Rat lone.
BB8-RackBB
Pauper:
UUDelverlUU
Yeah, I've found that with the shear amount of Aggro and builds that are creature heavy, Bontu's even with the timewalk is such a beating for our opponent that we find ourselves ahead 90% of the time. I've pitched both my CB's to the Side which I agree with you, very good against Burn builds, but pretty much it. Do you have an idea on the Pox list you are looking to run?
If not, feel free to check my list in my signature for a general basis to the deck. There are a few flex slots you can play around with along with your sideboard to fit your meta, but the general skeleton to the deck is there.
BB8-RackBB
Pauper:
UUDelverlUU
But wouldn't you argue that Mutavault at the very least is one of your win-conditions? Mutavault's versatility is so strong for us against several of these meta decks. Trading a Champion for a Mutavault, setting a blocker for Lilli, Beat down? I can see why you'd drop to 3 Urborg as it can at times be cloggy, but I really believe 4 Mutavaults are very necessary.
BB8-RackBB
Pauper:
UUDelverlUU
Sorry to hear about the performance, but hey that is how we learn to play the deck! I agree, the Smallpox plan is clearly the way to go because of the shear amount of artifact hate that will become boarded in. Smallpox has a severely crippling effect early on to many decks and it is one of the ways we try and beat Tron with it. I understand why Bridge would be appealing with the amount of aggro builds and creature heavy builds in the modern meta; however, I found maining 1 Bontu's is a necessity along with the Pox plan. It appears also that CB may not be what you want to run with in the MB if you do not expect a lot of burn. How did the Rat plan go for you when you did play them out?
BB8-RackBB
Pauper:
UUDelverlUU