yes, agreed on compost being solidly good. other stuff in that vein can also be powerful - if there is a lot of graveyard decks i've found night soil to be quite useful.
In other news - here is a new find I can believe I haven't used before... Al-abara's Carpet
It's another repeatable fog (though somewhat restricted and a little expensive) and it fits nicely with Sandwurm convergence
I haven't played this deck in a while actually, but that weird little find is getting me excited to try it out again. My playgroup just usually hates the prospect of fog-lock so they target me right away can't blame them I guess
Hey, sorry have been absent for a long time. Haven't been able to play the deck as much. Might start getting back into it soon though as my playgroup is getting more and more on to the powerful side (can't just play tribal sea creatures anymore, haha)
Nice deck Ender, and I love the alter!!
you asked for cards to cut. I think Snake Pit could go, as it seems situational and we don't have a ton of use for the occasional 1/1. Root Maze also seems questionable, as we don't have a ton of ways to abuse it that I can see. Mostly it will just annoy other people at the table. I've also been somewhat unimpressed by Primal Order. And if it was me I'd cut Vorinclex, Primal Hunger, that guy is just mean
Thanks for your interest in the deck, and keep on slinging them squalls y'all!
Holy ***** that modern deck. I love it. Makes me want to play modern again (I love prison as an archetype, play bridges and moons in modern right now and play Pox in Legacy). How good would you say it is?
But yeah rogerandover is right, we can't do the LD thing here really. You can try with Plow Under (or Stunted Growth for another similar effect, and also Fallow Earth) and Eternal Witness loops, but you'll draw a lot of hate (LD is probably the most hated thing EDH) and you won't be able actually lock anyone until you get to 1v1, since in multiplayer that thing is much harder to do. We're all about fog-lock, since it is more global
If you like the bouncing-creatures like wildebeast, I think toctheyounger has a thread around here with a more creature-focused list that ran them, though not sure he still runs them now
For the spoilers, Kamahl's Druidic Vow seems great. Big mana for a ton of permanents which is also what we have tons of. Multani, Yavimaya's avatar is kind of cool as a win condition that can recur. I agree on Broken Bond being solid, though I'm a sucker for instants and I think split second is better so I'd rather play Krosan Grip... Sylvan Awakening is great as a fog of sorts than can also make a ton of damage. I'm into it.
Roger, did you switch to our Queen and Savior Nissa? I thought you were still on the Kamahl plan
Hmmm I kinda like it. We often have 7 cards in hand; I often end up discarding down to 7, so getting him to work shouldn't be too hard. Worth a try, thanks for the suggestion! Could well be better than Krosan Tusker. I've really like Viridian Revel. Preferred Selection should be Mirri's Guile, but the list in the main post is tuned to be a bit below crazy optimal (75%) just to allow pet cards and to be played in a more casual environment.
Staff of Nin is a solid one. I kind of wanted to stay away from relying too heavily on artifacts, as it shifts the flavor of the deck (though artifact green is another idea i've toyed with). Aside from that more or less minor point, I feel like the deck draws a lot of cards as it is, and usually it does so in a way that impacts the board beyond drawing cards alone (playing lands or enchantments). Staff of Nin does not a lot more than just draw cards, so it doesn't have a ton of synergy with the rest of the deck. A good option, but I think just not the best in this context.
The Immortal Sun seems amazing in a Kamahl build though - pump your land creatures, shut down their planeswalkers... mega nice
I am running Elderscale Wurm in my build, but have yet to test it out. It works great in theory though. And yeah, rogerandover beat me to it that the first line only applies if your life total is below 7, at which point it raises you up to 7. No need to fret. I plan on cutting the Seer's Sundial once I get an extra copy of Nissa to include and see how she works out.
The other card I added was Squallmonger, which pairs nicely with our strategy to deal damage to flyers and players. Best part is it doesn't hit itself!!!
Please take a look at my updated list, which I believe to be "Final", but needs testing. You'll find it here: Decklist
First of all let me say I love how you pimped out your Tappedout page (even got that siiiiick Nissa pic on there)
Sorry for the mistake on Elderscale Wurm - reading the card is too advanced a skill man, I just tap the forests and play fogs and hurricanes, give me a break! But in all seriousness it does sound good, and a good backup since Glacial Chasm is kinda scary and draws hella hate.
As for the list... Looks good! Here are some thoughts
You have Squall Line, Hurricane, Ifh-Biff Efreet, and SquallMonger - do you feel you need all of these? I feel like the 2 big spells is ok, and maybe a third would be worthwhile, but four seems like overkill. I like the SquallMonger since she can be used over time, though you'll have to be careful not to throw her down when things are dicey, since they can use her to kill you if you don't have protection. She is a little slower since she costs 2 to activate, but worth trying out.
On Growing Rites of Itlimoc - you run 15 creatures and no token makers... will this be good enough? Interested to hear your experiences with it
Worldspine Wurm - this card is super cool obviously, but it doesn't seem to fit the theme of the deck except insofar as it is an alternative closer. Which it does pretty well. Is that what you were thinking with it? One of the nice things about the deck is that once you have tons of mana you can kind of just throw things that are cool in (that's why Emmy got into my list in the first place) so why not I guess
Hall of Gemstone - I'm torn on this thing for the reason that it turns off Constant Mists unless you do it preemptively in response to their triggers on their upkeeps. but then you have to use it every turn and no one can beat anyone else up for you...
I'd recommend Viridian Revel as a card to add, could use a few more enchantments in general maybe.
High Market is also a good one, especially if you've got Genesis. Could run Eternal Witness to break it even farther, but recurrable Emrakul is p juicy all on its own.
As always, a lot of it will be a matter of getting a feel for the deck and seeing what you like. Let us know how things go!
PS I looked for more Nissa fan art... man there is some weird stuff on the internet. I even found a picture of Hermione Granger edited to look like Nissa??!?! Spoilered below in case you didn't want to see it. What a world we live in y'all
Hmmm I hadn't thought of Elderscale Wurm as a way of surviving Hurricane, that's interesting. He's also tutorable with Primal Command, and serves as an extra protection piece of sorts. The first line of text is kind of scary, since 7 life is really low, so I wouldn't want to drop him without Constant Mists around as backup. Not sure, seems worthwhile - Ender, have you played it?
Nissa, Vital Force seems amazing, especially with the new planeswalker rules. Nissa tribal, anyone? I've got to rework the main decklist a bit, but I'd definitely play her over Sundial.
As for Lands.dec.... Nice list Roger! I'll have to find a minute to really look it over... My first thought is that Titania seems to lead the deck towards an aggro strategy, or at least a combo win (Splendid Reclamation + Zuran Orb, that kind of thing) - how do you feel about Concordant Crossroads to make it that much more explosive? Control with a combo finish? I guess that's kind of what we are already
Alright as the oh so official runner of this here primer it is my distinct pleasure to present to you the all-important mega end-all word of the day on Rivals of Ixilan!!! What is good?? What is bad??? Do I even have clue????? Read on to find out!!
Rivals of Ixalan cards worth considering (there's a 3cmc vanilla 4/2 in the set but I didn't really talk about him much...)
PolyRaptor: O I want to break this card somehow, it just seems to so cool. But not really for us.
Jadelight Ranger: I haven't played enough limited to get a feel for explore. This might be kind of cool? It's cheap, blocks, could be an easy draw-2... I dunno. Probably better stuff we could be doing, but if your build emphasizes ETB effects, this might be worth exploring (get it??)
Path of Discovery: I don't do the creature thing too much, but again, if your build is in that way, this might be worth looking into
Tendershoot Dryad: I like that it's a Verdant Force type effect in that it happens each upkeep, not just your own. Actually this card is just better than Verdant Force and tbh that makes me a little sad, I always like that old guy. Probably not a fit for what we're trying to do but powerful stuff nonetheless.
Wayward Swordtooth: I'm excited. Play more lands is always good. Now that we can run almost 4+ of that effect, might be even worth getting something like Horn of Greed into the deck, since we can break the symmetry pretty well. Plus he comes down early and can block, which is useful. Not sure I really love that he's a creature though, if we're being honest.
World Shaper: Another juicy one. Crucible effects are great, though you need the right build for it. I think the Life from the Loam package is gaining traction, with a lot of people trying it out, so this might be a good way to go. Combine with Crucible of Worlds and Ramunap Excavator for maximum power.
Plummet: I honestly kind of like this card. Lots of voltron commanders could be just killed by this. Nice to have a green card that says 'destroy target creature' even if there is the dumb flying clause in there (whoa you could run Evolution Charm for a sick combo though, c'mon now...)
Naturalize: Playable card. Was playable before this set even, since there were a lot of other ones. But if you like the art then hey rock on homie.
Arch of Orazca: Let's play it. Draws cards, is a mana sink, is a land... What's not to love. It doesn't tap for green I guess, and makes Vernal Bloom less good, but I think the upsides are worth it.
The Immortal Sun: Ok so don't run this if you're doing Nissa as you commander. But if you're a Kamahl player or maybe something else, then this could be pretty good. I imagine for Kamahl, having a static boost to your lands is hot, turning off opposing planeswalkers is marginal but not bad, and having all your spells be cheaper and your draws be stronger... I'm down.
Azor's Gateway: I kind of like it. Takes a lot of investment though, so I'm not sure. Once it's set up, it should make Hurricane happen more or less immediately. I'm not too excited though - if I spent 5 turns doing this, I could have just spent 5 turns dumping lands and drawing cards instead, so what have we really gained?
Awakened Amalgam: If you go the lands way this is kind of cute. But let's be real, this is EDH, a fat vanilla is basically a dead card.
Aight gang, that's my take! Some other random thoughts:
- There could be a solid green control deck just based on lands in here somewhere. Could drop the enchantress thing and focus on drawing via land drops (Seer's Sundial, Horn of Greed). With all the extra-land-drop cards and all the play-land-from-graveyard things, plus all the utility lands that they keep printing, this could definitely be a thing. I'm thinking like Legacy Lands but in EDH. Now I just gotta dig up a Tabernacle... I've seen non-green versions of this already around, but trying it the mono-green way might be a fun challenge.
- I agree with Wizard of Oz, some kind of land recursion package is valuable and I'm thinking should be included, even if you don't go all in and drop the enchantress stuff.
- Wizard of Oz also brings up a good point, namely that once people figure out what our deck does, they start to focus on you very fast, "before your shields are up." I noticed this to the point that I mostly play this deck only online against strangers. I'm not really sure how to combat this... Don't want to invest in more shields as they are boring and dilute the deck a lot. Probably the best answer is better politicking, but that's not much of a solution. Open to suggestions.
- Right now I'm gonna update the primer with the Rivals stuff, but I feel like a new decklist and all that is in order... one day! I promise!! For now, keep tapping them forests y'all, while those lame blue mages trying to use their brains to brutally control nature, we know the true control lies in calm acceptance of the natural order.
In conclusion, here is a kinda cool Nissa drawing from DevianArt user MoutMahanin
From your Maybeboard, honestly I would probably not add most of those. Nature's Wrath is vicious but very effective; it draws a lot of hate. Ulvenwald Hydra is an interesting one, could definitely be worth playing.
I like Moment's Peace as a backup to Constant Mists. Can't rely on your 1-of in my experience. But I also think my build might be a little softer than yours, you seem to run more creatures than I do.
I've found Lifegift to be kind of bland, though it does good work. I'm not sure how much you can abuse Awakening; not that many instants or activated abilities... Remember that its effect is symmetrical. Unless you're breaking it wide open, chances are someone else will get more out of it.
Those are some thoughts Glad you're trying out the MonoGreen Control Adventure!!
PS Mishronin, Baru is totally cool! If you've got a list to share, you're welcome to do so
Love the the sick Life from the Loam plays, and that cycling move is extra spicy. I'm not really sure how we could protect our graveyards, aside from stuff like Ground Seal, but that hurts us too. Holistic Wisdom can be done at instant speed to catch something that was going to be exiled, which is nice.
I think cutting Goblin Charbelcher is probably fine. It's kind of a pet card of mine that I just like, and Oracle of Mul Daya is just a better card that fits the deck better overall I think. Mana Bloom is a powerhouse though, I'd think kinda hard about cutting it.
I'm not sure that The Great Aurora would be bad in this deck. A more creature-token based shell might be better if you wanted to Aurora for you whole deck or whatever, but enchantments are permanents, and if you're deck is based around a single card then you could do worse than have a solid permanent-based draw engine so you can get to it reliably. Enchantress is also a good way to go if you want to build a land-based control type thing with a Great Aurora finish, since the enchantresses give you a solid way to draw more lands and you also get all the extra-land-drop enchantments (Exploration, Burgeoning, Gaea's Touch). Nissa herself also gives you additional land drops; it's not too hard to play three lands a turn in this deck.
Worth mentioning too is that if you Great Aurora and end up with an enchantress in you hand, you can then replay all your enchantments (depending how much mana you have) to get all the draw triggers again. A mild synergy, sure, but still.
Oh god Roger, I hadn't thought of Kamahl and Nacatl War-Pride, that's just dirty. I love it.
Oh and Zeoid, one more card worth mentioning, especially if you've got a lot of counterspells messing up your day - Seedtime. Imagine Time Walk except green and with Rebecca Guay art. 'nuff said.
Yeah! If you want another cool card, btw, you could try Bind. It is a green counterspell, and no one sees it coming, you can get so many cool interactions and it can stop some combos flat (and that flavor text, c'mon now, could totally see Nissa saying that). Plus most land destruction out there is stuff like Ghost Quarter or Strip Mine. If they go to Quarter your Glacial Chasm and you Bind... oh man I can see my opponent's face now
I agree, Sandwurm Convergence probably be mostly protection, but still cool if you can win with it. I played it in a different deck and won with it while having a Stasis lock, that was a spicy game
Depending on how you want to go, you might actually cut Primal Order... I find that often it is kind of slow and paints a target on you since no one likes being hit in that kind of every-turn non-interactive way. Depends on your meta though, if you're regularly getting 4-5 dmg a turn out of it then it's a p solid clock. But if it's more like 2-3 then maybe not worth it.
I see you've noticed that the deck can become a target - that's true, once people realize how hard you are to kill with a Glacial Chasm in play, they may start ganging up on you... But I think the deck can handle it! I love that Revelation worked as a political tool, I had mostly thought of it from a pro-active standpoint, but what you say makes a ton of sense. Another thing that might happen is that if people see that you don't have a ton going on, they'll likely leave you alone.
Yeah Hibernation's End I think has been on the block for a while, it's time to cut it. I've played Sandwurm Convergence and I love it. The no-attacks by flying thing doesn't come up a ton, but it does help against various Voltron people (I bet it would have been a beating against Aurelia too). Spitting out a 5/5 every turn though is awesome, it really makes people think twice before swinging at you. Plus it's just such a cool card, how can you not play it?
Preferred Selection is a cool one. You could also go for Mirri's Guile or Abundance if you want that kind of effect. Guile in particular I'd say is probably straight out better, though it costs a good deal more money-wise. And of course there's always Sylvan Library.
Again, glad you're enjoying MonoGreen Control, posts like yours are the reason I wrote the primer in the first place Go out there and rock them like a Hurricane!
I think the compass worth trying out, but wouldn't call it an auto-include by any means. As ramp it's hardly worth it, you'd be playing it as a two mana Maze of Ith with a weird land-fetch mode attached just in case. That mode is extra redundant when you figure that if you have three mana and need the fourth land, Nissa, Vastwood Seer will already get you there. still, could be nice not to use a land drop.
whoa sorry y'all, i been sleeping on my duties here! real life is a stupid thing
Here's a review of the recent sets. Unfortunately, Wizards many years ago decided green=creatures, so they don't really show a lot of love to the creature-light version I run. still, lets take a look.
Commander 2017
None of the new green cards seem good? There's a bad Reclamation Sage in Qasali Slingers, and Hungry Lynx is kinda cool, but also probably not worthwhile if you're not going hard into catland.
Same goes for artifacts - they're all equipments or based on a tribal theme...
Didn't really expect much tbh but still kind of disapointing.
Ixalan
Deathgorger Scavenger: seems kinda cool. If you're going the ETB route you could do worse. If you want dedicated grave hate Loam Shaman is probably better, but this guy could become a beater? Marginal, but you get style points for playing a dinosaur Growing Rites of Itlimoc: again could be cool in the creature-oriented versions. Provides filtering, and I imagine flipping it won't be too hard. I think Toc plays a more creature-y version, so maybe he could say better how many creatures he often has in play and whether this would be worth it. Ripjaw Raptor: man I really like this card but I don't know if it fits here. Could be a good blocker? Probably not good enough and we don't have any good way to abuse it. If you played a Sekki, Seasons' Guide version of MonoGreen Control with all the sweet combo finishes that involve pinging though... Might just have to explore that route, haha Shaper's Sanctuary: again interesting, but there are probably better things to do. Mirri's Guile seems stronger, especially as in many games my only creatures are Nissa and Enchantresses. Don't like depending on my opponents. If you play a lot of creatures, usually it's wraths that I'd worry about. Waker of the Wilds: this guy could work as a finisher. We make tons of mana, and Hurricane is classy and all, but with this we can animate just one monster land (so we don't get blown out by wraths) and can keep doing it over and over. Worth a try I'd say. Blinding Fog: if you wanted a more flexible fog, could use this? It lacks recursion though Crushing Canopy: I know they have Crushing Vines... why don't they just make a modal disenchant that kills flying creatures??? I like the idea of having straight-out creature removal, even if it is conditional. Probably not good enough though, especially as flying creatures already have answers in Hurricane and co. Ancient Brontodon: c'mon so much style points. Imagine Nissa just wandering the Vastwood on one of these. Tell me it's not amazing. Thaumatic Compass: easy to flip. turns into Maze of Ith and finds you lands. Might actually be better than the Maze since it finds you lands; the problem with Maze is that its a land drop and doesn't tap for mana. Could try swapping them and seeing how it feels. Primal Amulet: we have a decent number of instants and sorceries, so could flip this and benefit from its front side, especially if you don't do the enchantress thing (I think Roger, your list is creature-light but also not enchantress, so maybe extra good for you?). Flip side makes the Hurricane kill a lot easier, so I'd put this on the maybe pile.
The planeswalker rule is very good for us, I agree that Nissa, Vital Force should be in the deck. All her abilities are good, and she even makes blockers! Plus she has, in my opinion, the best Nissa art. Now, what to cut...
I don't play Crucible of Worlds or Ramunap Excavator, so I'm afraid I can't be a ton of help on those. I don't like Excavator just for being a creature - makes him too fragile in my mind. Crucible I don't play because it's expensive ($-wise) and sends a message like "I play for keeps"; not really my style, like it says on the primer, I'm a more 75% person. The effect on both is definitely great, so either card could be very good, but that's my story. Realm Seekers is a spicy one! Glad it's working
Welcome to the MonoGreen Control world Wizard of Foz!! Glad you're enjoying the deck, and thanks for posting and reminding me to update this whole thing (I've updated the first post as well). I like to think we're a kind of tight-knit community here, so if you have any questions or suggestions do let us know
In other news - here is a new find I can believe I haven't used before... Al-abara's Carpet
It's another repeatable fog (though somewhat restricted and a little expensive) and it fits nicely with Sandwurm convergence
I haven't played this deck in a while actually, but that weird little find is getting me excited to try it out again. My playgroup just usually hates the prospect of fog-lock so they target me right away
Tymna & Ishai, ie Esper Edric
Crosis Turbotrash
Nice deck Ender, and I love the alter!!
you asked for cards to cut. I think Snake Pit could go, as it seems situational and we don't have a ton of use for the occasional 1/1. Root Maze also seems questionable, as we don't have a ton of ways to abuse it that I can see. Mostly it will just annoy other people at the table. I've also been somewhat unimpressed by Primal Order. And if it was me I'd cut Vorinclex, Primal Hunger, that guy is just mean
Thanks for your interest in the deck, and keep on slinging them squalls y'all!
Tymna & Ishai, ie Esper Edric
Crosis Turbotrash
But yeah rogerandover is right, we can't do the LD thing here really. You can try with Plow Under (or Stunted Growth for another similar effect, and also Fallow Earth) and Eternal Witness loops, but you'll draw a lot of hate (LD is probably the most hated thing EDH) and you won't be able actually lock anyone until you get to 1v1, since in multiplayer that thing is much harder to do. We're all about fog-lock, since it is more global
If you like the bouncing-creatures like wildebeast, I think toctheyounger has a thread around here with a more creature-focused list that ran them, though not sure he still runs them now
For the spoilers, Kamahl's Druidic Vow seems great. Big mana for a ton of permanents which is also what we have tons of. Multani, Yavimaya's avatar is kind of cool as a win condition that can recur. I agree on Broken Bond being solid, though I'm a sucker for instants and I think split second is better so I'd rather play Krosan Grip... Sylvan Awakening is great as a fog of sorts than can also make a ton of damage. I'm into it.
Roger, did you switch to our Queen and Savior Nissa? I thought you were still on the Kamahl plan
Tymna & Ishai, ie Esper Edric
Crosis Turbotrash
Staff of Nin is a solid one. I kind of wanted to stay away from relying too heavily on artifacts, as it shifts the flavor of the deck (though artifact green is another idea i've toyed with). Aside from that more or less minor point, I feel like the deck draws a lot of cards as it is, and usually it does so in a way that impacts the board beyond drawing cards alone (playing lands or enchantments). Staff of Nin does not a lot more than just draw cards, so it doesn't have a ton of synergy with the rest of the deck. A good option, but I think just not the best in this context.
The Immortal Sun seems amazing in a Kamahl build though - pump your land creatures, shut down their planeswalkers... mega nice
Tymna & Ishai, ie Esper Edric
Crosis Turbotrash
First of all let me say I love how you pimped out your Tappedout page (even got that siiiiick Nissa pic on there)
Sorry for the mistake on Elderscale Wurm - reading the card is too advanced a skill man, I just tap the forests and play fogs and hurricanes, give me a break! But in all seriousness it does sound good, and a good backup since Glacial Chasm is kinda scary and draws hella hate.
As for the list... Looks good! Here are some thoughts
You have Squall Line, Hurricane, Ifh-Biff Efreet, and SquallMonger - do you feel you need all of these? I feel like the 2 big spells is ok, and maybe a third would be worthwhile, but four seems like overkill. I like the SquallMonger since she can be used over time, though you'll have to be careful not to throw her down when things are dicey, since they can use her to kill you if you don't have protection. She is a little slower since she costs 2 to activate, but worth trying out.
On Growing Rites of Itlimoc - you run 15 creatures and no token makers... will this be good enough? Interested to hear your experiences with it
Worldspine Wurm - this card is super cool obviously, but it doesn't seem to fit the theme of the deck except insofar as it is an alternative closer. Which it does pretty well. Is that what you were thinking with it? One of the nice things about the deck is that once you have tons of mana you can kind of just throw things that are cool in (that's why Emmy got into my list in the first place) so why not I guess
Hall of Gemstone - I'm torn on this thing for the reason that it turns off Constant Mists unless you do it preemptively in response to their triggers on their upkeeps. but then you have to use it every turn and no one can beat anyone else up for you...
I'd recommend Viridian Revel as a card to add, could use a few more enchantments in general maybe.
High Market is also a good one, especially if you've got Genesis. Could run Eternal Witness to break it even farther, but recurrable Emrakul is p juicy all on its own.
Mirri's Guile always a strong choice...
As always, a lot of it will be a matter of getting a feel for the deck and seeing what you like. Let us know how things go!
PS I looked for more Nissa fan art... man there is some weird stuff on the internet. I even found a picture of Hermione Granger edited to look like Nissa??!?! Spoilered below in case you didn't want to see it. What a world we live in y'all
Tymna & Ishai, ie Esper Edric
Crosis Turbotrash
Nissa, Vital Force seems amazing, especially with the new planeswalker rules. Nissa tribal, anyone? I've got to rework the main decklist a bit, but I'd definitely play her over Sundial.
As for Lands.dec.... Nice list Roger! I'll have to find a minute to really look it over... My first thought is that Titania seems to lead the deck towards an aggro strategy, or at least a combo win (Splendid Reclamation + Zuran Orb, that kind of thing) - how do you feel about Concordant Crossroads to make it that much more explosive? Control with a combo finish? I guess that's kind of what we are already
Tymna & Ishai, ie Esper Edric
Crosis Turbotrash
Rivals of Ixalan cards worth considering (there's a 3cmc vanilla 4/2 in the set but I didn't really talk about him much...)
Jadelight Ranger: I haven't played enough limited to get a feel for explore. This might be kind of cool? It's cheap, blocks, could be an easy draw-2... I dunno. Probably better stuff we could be doing, but if your build emphasizes ETB effects, this might be worth exploring (get it??)
Path of Discovery: I don't do the creature thing too much, but again, if your build is in that way, this might be worth looking into
Tendershoot Dryad: I like that it's a Verdant Force type effect in that it happens each upkeep, not just your own. Actually this card is just better than Verdant Force and tbh that makes me a little sad, I always like that old guy. Probably not a fit for what we're trying to do but powerful stuff nonetheless.
Wayward Swordtooth: I'm excited. Play more lands is always good. Now that we can run almost 4+ of that effect, might be even worth getting something like Horn of Greed into the deck, since we can break the symmetry pretty well. Plus he comes down early and can block, which is useful. Not sure I really love that he's a creature though, if we're being honest.
World Shaper: Another juicy one. Crucible effects are great, though you need the right build for it. I think the Life from the Loam package is gaining traction, with a lot of people trying it out, so this might be a good way to go. Combine with Crucible of Worlds and Ramunap Excavator for maximum power.
Plummet: I honestly kind of like this card. Lots of voltron commanders could be just killed by this. Nice to have a green card that says 'destroy target creature' even if there is the dumb flying clause in there (whoa you could run Evolution Charm for a sick combo though, c'mon now...)
Naturalize: Playable card. Was playable before this set even, since there were a lot of other ones. But if you like the art then hey rock on homie.
Arch of Orazca: Let's play it. Draws cards, is a mana sink, is a land... What's not to love. It doesn't tap for green I guess, and makes Vernal Bloom less good, but I think the upsides are worth it.
The Immortal Sun: Ok so don't run this if you're doing Nissa as you commander. But if you're a Kamahl player or maybe something else, then this could be pretty good. I imagine for Kamahl, having a static boost to your lands is hot, turning off opposing planeswalkers is marginal but not bad, and having all your spells be cheaper and your draws be stronger... I'm down.
Azor's Gateway: I kind of like it. Takes a lot of investment though, so I'm not sure. Once it's set up, it should make Hurricane happen more or less immediately. I'm not too excited though - if I spent 5 turns doing this, I could have just spent 5 turns dumping lands and drawing cards instead, so what have we really gained?
Silent Gravestone: We have too much recursion to like this card
Awakened Amalgam: If you go the lands way this is kind of cute. But let's be real, this is EDH, a fat vanilla is basically a dead card.
- There could be a solid green control deck just based on lands in here somewhere. Could drop the enchantress thing and focus on drawing via land drops (Seer's Sundial, Horn of Greed). With all the extra-land-drop cards and all the play-land-from-graveyard things, plus all the utility lands that they keep printing, this could definitely be a thing. I'm thinking like Legacy Lands but in EDH. Now I just gotta dig up a Tabernacle... I've seen non-green versions of this already around, but trying it the mono-green way might be a fun challenge.
- I agree with Wizard of Oz, some kind of land recursion package is valuable and I'm thinking should be included, even if you don't go all in and drop the enchantress stuff.
- Wizard of Oz also brings up a good point, namely that once people figure out what our deck does, they start to focus on you very fast, "before your shields are up." I noticed this to the point that I mostly play this deck only online against strangers. I'm not really sure how to combat this... Don't want to invest in more shields as they are boring and dilute the deck a lot. Probably the best answer is better politicking, but that's not much of a solution. Open to suggestions.
- Right now I'm gonna update the primer with the Rivals stuff, but I feel like a new decklist and all that is in order... one day! I promise!! For now, keep tapping them forests y'all, while those lame blue mages trying to use their brains to brutally control nature, we know the true control lies in calm acceptance of the natural order.
In conclusion, here is a kinda cool Nissa drawing from DevianArt user MoutMahanin
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I'll just agree with most of what Rogerandover said
Just be careful with City of Solitude since it will stop your fogs (not your Glacial Chasm though)
From your Maybeboard, honestly I would probably not add most of those. Nature's Wrath is vicious but very effective; it draws a lot of hate. Ulvenwald Hydra is an interesting one, could definitely be worth playing.
I like Moment's Peace as a backup to Constant Mists. Can't rely on your 1-of in my experience. But I also think my build might be a little softer than yours, you seem to run more creatures than I do.
Surprised at no Dark Depths - you run the stage...
Praetor's Counsel is a powerhouse of course.
I've found Lifegift to be kind of bland, though it does good work. I'm not sure how much you can abuse Awakening; not that many instants or activated abilities... Remember that its effect is symmetrical. Unless you're breaking it wide open, chances are someone else will get more out of it.
Those are some thoughts
PS Mishronin, Baru is totally cool! If you've got a list to share, you're welcome to do so
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Love the the sick Life from the Loam plays, and that cycling move is extra spicy. I'm not really sure how we could protect our graveyards, aside from stuff like Ground Seal, but that hurts us too. Holistic Wisdom can be done at instant speed to catch something that was going to be exiled, which is nice.
I think cutting Goblin Charbelcher is probably fine. It's kind of a pet card of mine that I just like, and Oracle of Mul Daya is just a better card that fits the deck better overall I think. Mana Bloom is a powerhouse though, I'd think kinda hard about cutting it.
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If you wanted to make it revolve around the Great Aurora, then I'd up the land count, adding more utility lands. Also add Burgeoning and maybe some more things like Skyshroud Claim. You'll also want Horn of Greed of course. Life from the Loam and Realms Uncharted + cycling lands package would also be a good thing to have in, I'd think.
Worth mentioning too is that if you Great Aurora and end up with an enchantress in you hand, you can then replay all your enchantments (depending how much mana you have) to get all the draw triggers again. A mild synergy, sure, but still.
Last, you might be interested in this thread: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/762011-nissa-vastwood-seer-an-attempt-at-creative#c3
Let us know how it works for you!
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Oh and Zeoid, one more card worth mentioning, especially if you've got a lot of counterspells messing up your day - Seedtime. Imagine Time Walk except green and with Rebecca Guay art. 'nuff said.
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I agree, Sandwurm Convergence probably be mostly protection, but still cool if you can win with it. I played it in a different deck and won with it while having a Stasis lock, that was a spicy game
I like the Realms Uncharted idea. It is good enough on its own because a lot of lands are ok in the graveyard (e.g. Drownyard Temple). Plus you can get the stuff back with a lot of cards other than Life from the Loam - Holistic Wisdom, Nostalgic Dreams... Might run all the cycle lands if I went that way, the more the better. Don't forget Blasted Landscape!
Depending on how you want to go, you might actually cut Primal Order... I find that often it is kind of slow and paints a target on you since no one likes being hit in that kind of every-turn non-interactive way. Depends on your meta though, if you're regularly getting 4-5 dmg a turn out of it then it's a p solid clock. But if it's more like 2-3 then maybe not worth it.
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I see you've noticed that the deck can become a target - that's true, once people realize how hard you are to kill with a Glacial Chasm in play, they may start ganging up on you... But I think the deck can handle it! I love that Revelation worked as a political tool, I had mostly thought of it from a pro-active standpoint, but what you say makes a ton of sense. Another thing that might happen is that if people see that you don't have a ton going on, they'll likely leave you alone.
Boseiju, who shelters all seems like it would fit in well for your meta. Song of the Dryads is definitely better than Lignify in most situations, I'd say. So probably a good call overall.
Yeah Hibernation's End I think has been on the block for a while, it's time to cut it. I've played Sandwurm Convergence and I love it. The no-attacks by flying thing doesn't come up a ton, but it does help against various Voltron people (I bet it would have been a beating against Aurelia too). Spitting out a 5/5 every turn though is awesome, it really makes people think twice before swinging at you. Plus it's just such a cool card, how can you not play it?
Preferred Selection is a cool one. You could also go for Mirri's Guile or Abundance if you want that kind of effect. Guile in particular I'd say is probably straight out better, though it costs a good deal more money-wise. And of course there's always Sylvan Library.
Again, glad you're enjoying MonoGreen Control, posts like yours are the reason I wrote the primer in the first place
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Here's a review of the recent sets. Unfortunately, Wizards many years ago decided green=creatures, so they don't really show a lot of love to the creature-light version I run. still, lets take a look.
Commander 2017
Same goes for artifacts - they're all equipments or based on a tribal theme...
Didn't really expect much tbh but still kind of disapointing.
Growing Rites of Itlimoc: again could be cool in the creature-oriented versions. Provides filtering, and I imagine flipping it won't be too hard. I think Toc plays a more creature-y version, so maybe he could say better how many creatures he often has in play and whether this would be worth it.
Ripjaw Raptor: man I really like this card but I don't know if it fits here. Could be a good blocker? Probably not good enough and we don't have any good way to abuse it. If you played a Sekki, Seasons' Guide version of MonoGreen Control with all the sweet combo finishes that involve pinging though... Might just have to explore that route, haha
Shaper's Sanctuary: again interesting, but there are probably better things to do. Mirri's Guile seems stronger, especially as in many games my only creatures are Nissa and Enchantresses. Don't like depending on my opponents. If you play a lot of creatures, usually it's wraths that I'd worry about.
Waker of the Wilds: this guy could work as a finisher. We make tons of mana, and Hurricane is classy and all, but with this we can animate just one monster land (so we don't get blown out by wraths) and can keep doing it over and over. Worth a try I'd say.
Blinding Fog: if you wanted a more flexible fog, could use this? It lacks recursion though
Crushing Canopy: I know they have Crushing Vines... why don't they just make a modal disenchant that kills flying creatures??? I like the idea of having straight-out creature removal, even if it is conditional. Probably not good enough though, especially as flying creatures already have answers in Hurricane and co.
Ancient Brontodon: c'mon so much style points. Imagine Nissa just wandering the Vastwood on one of these. Tell me it's not amazing.
Thaumatic Compass: easy to flip. turns into Maze of Ith and finds you lands. Might actually be better than the Maze since it finds you lands; the problem with Maze is that its a land drop and doesn't tap for mana. Could try swapping them and seeing how it feels.
Primal Amulet: we have a decent number of instants and sorceries, so could flip this and benefit from its front side, especially if you don't do the enchantress thing (I think Roger, your list is creature-light but also not enchantress, so maybe extra good for you?). Flip side makes the Hurricane kill a lot easier, so I'd put this on the maybe pile.
Overall the cards probably most worth thinking about I'd say are Thaumatic Compass, Waker of Wilds, and Primal Amulet. None are super amazing, but hey.
The planeswalker rule is very good for us, I agree that Nissa, Vital Force should be in the deck. All her abilities are good, and she even makes blockers! Plus she has, in my opinion, the best Nissa art. Now, what to cut...
I don't play Crucible of Worlds or Ramunap Excavator, so I'm afraid I can't be a ton of help on those. I don't like Excavator just for being a creature - makes him too fragile in my mind. Crucible I don't play because it's expensive ($-wise) and sends a message like "I play for keeps"; not really my style, like it says on the primer, I'm a more 75% person. The effect on both is definitely great, so either card could be very good, but that's my story. Realm Seekers is a spicy one! Glad it's working
Welcome to the MonoGreen Control world Wizard of Foz!! Glad you're enjoying the deck, and thanks for posting and reminding me to update this whole thing (I've updated the first post as well). I like to think we're a kind of tight-knit community here, so if you have any questions or suggestions do let us know
(couldn't resist)
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