HI Fincown, can you be more specific about how you lose to Jund? I find that to be one of the easier matchups. If they are killing you with IoK and Thoughtseize, the best sideboard card is Leyline of Sanctity. It also stops 2 of Liliana's modes.
In general, their strategy is to 1-for-1 us, but all of our cards have additional value attached. Flickering our creatures gets even more value. If you're running Restoration Angel, use it to save a creature from removal, rather than just running it out EOT. Don't waste removal on every creature; save it for Scavenging Ooze. Bring in the 4th Wrath, they often overcommit to the board. Last, Ghost Quarter is really good against Raging Ravine. Again, don't crack it until they have spent mana activating the manland. Sometimes just having a GQ on board is good enough to slow them down until we get the grind going.
I know you're not on Green, but if you were, I would say that Saffi Eriksdotter is one of the best cards. It works wonders with either a Sun Titan or a Renegade Rallier to negate their removal. It's so mean.
I haven't watched Seth's videos yet, so I'm not sure what situation he got himself into, but it should NEVER be hart to trigger revolt. My list has 7-8 fetches, 2-3 Ghost Quarters, 3 Flickerwisps, 1 Resto Angel, 4 STEves, 2 Saffis, and a single Blasting Station. That's 21 ways, over a third of the deck.
However, the sequencing can be tough, as I mentioned the other day. You don't just Sac your cards at the first end step; you have to think ahead...
Occasionally I find I have a Rallier early with no target, so I might go down to two, but probably not! 90% of the time the T3 Rallier nets a Tribe Elder or a fetch. STE is the best case, because T3 STE into T3 Rallier --> STE ramping me to 5 at the end of T3 means I can play a Titan on T4. It's not that unusual, I did it on Friday with a PrimeTime. However I had fetched my 1 Forest instead of all Plains, so I didn't get the dream of active Emeria in the upkeep of T5
Hey all, FNM was fun, I went 2-2 with this deck, though it should have been 3-1 but for a stupid mistake. It is powerful but I'll admit that it is challenging to line up correct decisions. I need more practice for sure!
I think that the manabase above is a bit greedy. I never had trouble with getting Blue, but I did have trouble getting double-green for Primeval Titan and still prioritizing getting plains for Emeria when I would crack my Sakura-Tribe Elders. Also this was magnified by the fact that I ran three Ghost Quarters because I know my store has a few Tron and Scapeshift players, but of course I didn't play them tonight. So I'll rework it a bit. However I do like 2 Emeria, the Sky Ruin instead of the 3 I've seen in other lists, especially when I have old PrimeTime to grab one up.
Here's a summary of matchups and sideboarding:
Round 1: Win 3-0 against Skred Red.
Game 1 I gained 12 life with Lone Missionary, and my opponent played an Eidolon of the Great Revels and lot more Burn than I expect from Skred, so I thought it was monored Burn. I beat down with the Missionaries and a Rallier.
Side in 3 Leyline and 2 Scavenging Ooze, Side out 2 Verdicts, 2 Paths, and a D-Sphere.
Game 2 I have Leyline of Sanctity and he has Leyline of Punishment. My Leyline did a lot more work. I didn't gain any life but I beat down pretty good while he held useless cards. I was playing around Blood Moon but he told me he had sided them out.
Game 3 was for fun because he wanted me to see what his deck did, and because magic is fun. He had the Leyline again, and he got out Turn 3 Koth of the Hammer followed by Turn 4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance plus Ensnaring Bridge. My Leyline of Sanctity made his Koth pretty much just a ramp spell, but Chandra's 2 damage doesn't target so he was able to hit me for two a turn. He got a second Bridge and felt quite comfortable with his lock and two mana per turn. I had a Sun Titan, Saffi, and a few other creatures that couldn't attack. Was hoping for a Blasting Station to combo off but drew my one remaining Detention Sphere and took his Bridges, and attacked. Killed Chandra and him in about 3 turns. This deck turns the corner so good!!
Round 2: Lost 0-2 against UR Kiln Fiend/Thing in the Ice. I guess this is Suicide Bloo? I need to read about it.
Game 1 he had 2 TITIs for T2 and T3, while I had 2 Walls of Omens. It was an 0/4 party, then on T4 he cast Serum Visions into Manamorphose into Mutagenic Growth into Temur Battle Rage, flipping the TITIs, bouncing my team and swinging for 25. GG.
I was quite unsure about sideboarding, thinking he was on the Thing Ascension deck. I brought in 2 Scooze, 2 Negate and 2 Meddling Mage (probably unnecessary), and took out 2 Verdicts, 1 Blasting Station, thinking they were too slow and I still think so. I also took out 1 Path, 1 Wall of Omens, and 1 Lone Missionary, not really for any good reason. Please feel free to comment what would have been better.
Game 2 lasted a little longer, as I pathed his first 7/7 doublestriking Kiln Fiend. He followed up with Bedlam Reveler. His next turn he played a Swiftpear and put me to 6. I kept awkwardly, fetched awkwardly, etc. The next turn I had plains and GQ in play, fetched/shocked a Temple Garden instead of Hallowed Fountain, and played Renegade Rallier to return my fetch to the table, even though I had Negate in hand. Died to burn.
Round 3 Lost 1-2 to Grixis Control, but this is the one I should have won. I know I didn't, but for testing/review purposes it was like a win.
Game 1 was pretty easy as he had a bit of mana trouble after keeping a one-lander. T2 doesn't draw second land, discards an Ancestral Vision to hand size so that he could hold up bolt. I think that was a mistake on his part, since killing my early guy didn't matter. I got the Saffi/Rallier lock, drew a D-Sphere for his Tasigur, and he got stuck at three lands.
I boarded in 2 Negate and 2 Scooze, and took out 3 Verdict and 1 Path. I thought really hard about Gaddock Teeg to stop Cryptic Command, but it didn't seem worth it.
Game 2 he suspended AV on turn 1 and then another on turn 3. I was a bit slow on mana, and made some poor choices like aggressively Ghost Quartering to try to keep him off red mana, which he alway seemed to fetch more of. I Negated the first Vision when it came off of suspend, and felt pretty in control, but then I GQ'd my own land to get a Forest so I could play Primeval Titan, which he countered. Second Vision resolved, and he slowly Tasigured and burned me down despite me gaining 8 life. I got him to three and I think tighter play might have won me that one.
Game 3 I made the hugest mistake ever, which was not blocking his Tasigur multiple times despite having THREE Walls of Omens in play. I literally forgot that I could block. Even then I would have won, but I made some other small mistakes. One was not Ghost Quartering his Creeping Tar Pits, because I wanted to keep it for fixing, which cost me about 6 life. Then, I waited a turn without doing the GQ trick to get a plains, when I could have gotten Emeria online. Then, after I did get Emeria online, I returned Sun Titan to the board, and with his trigger, I meant to get Saffi, but grabbed a Rallier instead - just moving too fast. Anyway, I'm not crying over spilled milk, just saying that I think this is a good matchup and my poor play cost me Game 3 and possibly Game 2 also. That said, my opponent was quite skilled, and got all the edge and value that he could out of this deck.
Looking back, I think maybe I should have sideboarded in my Leylines, because Lightning Bolt and Kolaghan's Command won him both games. My opponent also thought that I should have brought in Teeg, but I still think it's too narrow. What do you folks think?
Round 4: Won 2-1 against Monogreen Stompy - This matchup is incredibly easy if they don't draw the nuts hand.
Game 1 I killed his stuff and beat down with a Titan. I did have the fun interaction of saccing my own Selfless Spirit and then Wrathing the board.
Game 2 He had the nuts. I played T2 Lone Missionary and T3 Flickerwisp, so I had gained 8 life. On Turn 4 he played double Aspect of Hydra on an unblocked creature to do 19 damage and win.
Game 3 belonged to Scavenging Ooze. I had some removal, which helped, and gained 4 life on turn 2, but once I got Ooze in play it took over the game. I won with 26 life.
Overall I loved it, but really need some practice, especially to work on getting the right lands. The 3 Ghost Quarters was definitely overkill, so I'll go back to 2. However I think I'll stay with 2 Emerias. Those plus the forest and island will put me at 6 non-plains lands, and 18 plains/fetches, so that should be better. Primeval Titan is still on probation and might be better in a GW build instead of Bant.
Regarding sideboard, Scavenging Ooze was the MVP and Leyline of Sanctity definitely earned it's place. Four SB slots against artifacts may be too much, and Stony Silence is good against many decks, so it may be the Seals that have to go to make room for Spreading Seas.
As always, please feel free to give constructive criticism. Thanks for reading my novel....
Thanks for the heads up Dennis! I was about to walk into FNM with an illegal card. I actually like Sesal better because it doesn't cost 1 to activate and it dodges removal/boardwipes, but the exalted could be nice!
Yes, Gaddock Teeg replaces Verdicts against Control and Scapeshift and Tron.
However the main reason I run Leyline is against Burn, but that only slows them down, doesn't stop them. Maybe those slots should just be Kitchen Finks? What do you guys like against Burn? I have found Blessed Alliance a little weak in other decks...
Here's the whole deck for reference. I welcome any discussion! Thanks...
I know the guy who top 8'd an IQ with that list you linked above - I'll ask him if he's considered Beast Within when I see him again - it seems good. The deck has evolved a bit since that tournament... He switched the Mortarpods for Blasting Stations and a few other changes.
I really like his list although I took out a Banishing Light and already made the switch to Blasting Station. What were his other changes?
Hi Fayrawks - I haven't seen him lately... what I recall is that he switched to Blasting Station, and that he was happy with Tireless Tracker. I know that card is great value, but not sure in this deck... It doesn't have an ETB, but it does get more clues from recurring lands with Rallier/Titan, and card draw is strong, even for 2. Also, maybe less importantly, cracking a clue triggers revolt. I may try to fit one in.
I'm brewing Bant version right now, which doesn't seem too awkward in goldfish, but I haven't played real games yet. Will post later.
Hi Guys - Glad to see that W/G is getting some consideration now. I read the first five pages of the forum and people seemed to hate on it a lot a few months ago. I think Renegade Rallier is what makes the green really solid, but I really want to squeeze in a couple Beast Withins too. Someone earlier said that green is to make it a ramp deck, and I disagree completely. This deck has no mana dorks, and Sakura-Tribe Elder is just a much-better version of Pilgrim's Eye... that doesn't make it a ramp deck. It just makes it even more of a value deck than it was before. s
I know the guy who top 8'd an IQ with that list you linked above - I'll ask him if he's considered Beast Within when I see him again - it seems good. The deck has evolved a bit since that tournament... He switched the Mortarpods for Blasting Stations and a few other changes.
I noticed that it's been a few months since anyone mentioned Smuggler's Copter. I've recently added 3 in my monowhite build, and it's been great. It actually provides a clock, and the looting effect has been great, too. It survives sorcery speed removal, gives other creatures psuedo-flying and haste (and makes them 3/3's, in a sense). They've been very good with Squadron Hawks, giving lots of cards to loot to dig.
Hi thnkr! Can I see this Squadron/Copter list? I want a list to build online and this sounds like fun!
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3 Flickerwisp
2 Sun Titan
1 Primeval Titan
2 Renegade Rallier
4 Lone Missionary
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Selfless Spirit
2 Court Hussar
4 Wall of Omens
1 Saffi Eriksdotter
13 Spells
4 Path to Exile
2 Ojutai's Command
1 Beast Within
3 Supreme Verdict
2 Detention Sphere
1 Evolutionary Leap
2 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
2 Ghost Quarter
4 Windswept Heath
3 Flooded Strand
2 Temple Garden
2 Hallowed Fountain
6 Plains
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Saffi Eriksdotter
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Spreading Seas
2 Negate
1 Wrath of God
I haven't tried Hussar yet, but since I have blue I'm gonna run a few. Also think I'll give Leap a try - sweet idea.
One question - Why don't you run Saffi Eriksdotter? Have you tried her?
In general, their strategy is to 1-for-1 us, but all of our cards have additional value attached. Flickering our creatures gets even more value. If you're running Restoration Angel, use it to save a creature from removal, rather than just running it out EOT. Don't waste removal on every creature; save it for Scavenging Ooze. Bring in the 4th Wrath, they often overcommit to the board. Last, Ghost Quarter is really good against Raging Ravine. Again, don't crack it until they have spent mana activating the manland. Sometimes just having a GQ on board is good enough to slow them down until we get the grind going.
I know you're not on Green, but if you were, I would say that Saffi Eriksdotter is one of the best cards. It works wonders with either a Sun Titan or a Renegade Rallier to negate their removal. It's so mean.
However, the sequencing can be tough, as I mentioned the other day. You don't just Sac your cards at the first end step; you have to think ahead...
Occasionally I find I have a Rallier early with no target, so I might go down to two, but probably not! 90% of the time the T3 Rallier nets a Tribe Elder or a fetch. STE is the best case, because T3 STE into T3 Rallier --> STE ramping me to 5 at the end of T3 means I can play a Titan on T4. It's not that unusual, I did it on Friday with a PrimeTime. However I had fetched my 1 Forest instead of all Plains, so I didn't get the dream of active Emeria in the upkeep of T5
I think that the manabase above is a bit greedy. I never had trouble with getting Blue, but I did have trouble getting double-green for Primeval Titan and still prioritizing getting plains for Emeria when I would crack my Sakura-Tribe Elders. Also this was magnified by the fact that I ran three Ghost Quarters because I know my store has a few Tron and Scapeshift players, but of course I didn't play them tonight. So I'll rework it a bit. However I do like 2 Emeria, the Sky Ruin instead of the 3 I've seen in other lists, especially when I have old PrimeTime to grab one up.
Here's a summary of matchups and sideboarding:
Round 1: Win 3-0 against Skred Red.
Game 1 I gained 12 life with Lone Missionary, and my opponent played an Eidolon of the Great Revels and lot more Burn than I expect from Skred, so I thought it was monored Burn. I beat down with the Missionaries and a Rallier.
Side in 3 Leyline and 2 Scavenging Ooze, Side out 2 Verdicts, 2 Paths, and a D-Sphere.
Game 2 I have Leyline of Sanctity and he has Leyline of Punishment. My Leyline did a lot more work. I didn't gain any life but I beat down pretty good while he held useless cards. I was playing around Blood Moon but he told me he had sided them out.
Game 3 was for fun because he wanted me to see what his deck did, and because magic is fun. He had the Leyline again, and he got out Turn 3 Koth of the Hammer followed by Turn 4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance plus Ensnaring Bridge. My Leyline of Sanctity made his Koth pretty much just a ramp spell, but Chandra's 2 damage doesn't target so he was able to hit me for two a turn. He got a second Bridge and felt quite comfortable with his lock and two mana per turn. I had a Sun Titan, Saffi, and a few other creatures that couldn't attack. Was hoping for a Blasting Station to combo off but drew my one remaining Detention Sphere and took his Bridges, and attacked. Killed Chandra and him in about 3 turns. This deck turns the corner so good!!
Round 2: Lost 0-2 against UR Kiln Fiend/Thing in the Ice. I guess this is Suicide Bloo? I need to read about it.
Game 1 he had 2 TITIs for T2 and T3, while I had 2 Walls of Omens. It was an 0/4 party, then on T4 he cast Serum Visions into Manamorphose into Mutagenic Growth into Temur Battle Rage, flipping the TITIs, bouncing my team and swinging for 25. GG.
I was quite unsure about sideboarding, thinking he was on the Thing Ascension deck. I brought in 2 Scooze, 2 Negate and 2 Meddling Mage (probably unnecessary), and took out 2 Verdicts, 1 Blasting Station, thinking they were too slow and I still think so. I also took out 1 Path, 1 Wall of Omens, and 1 Lone Missionary, not really for any good reason. Please feel free to comment what would have been better.
Game 2 lasted a little longer, as I pathed his first 7/7 doublestriking Kiln Fiend. He followed up with Bedlam Reveler. His next turn he played a Swiftpear and put me to 6. I kept awkwardly, fetched awkwardly, etc. The next turn I had plains and GQ in play, fetched/shocked a Temple Garden instead of Hallowed Fountain, and played Renegade Rallier to return my fetch to the table, even though I had Negate in hand. Died to burn.
Round 3 Lost 1-2 to Grixis Control, but this is the one I should have won. I know I didn't, but for testing/review purposes it was like a win.
Game 1 was pretty easy as he had a bit of mana trouble after keeping a one-lander. T2 doesn't draw second land, discards an Ancestral Vision to hand size so that he could hold up bolt. I think that was a mistake on his part, since killing my early guy didn't matter. I got the Saffi/Rallier lock, drew a D-Sphere for his Tasigur, and he got stuck at three lands.
I boarded in 2 Negate and 2 Scooze, and took out 3 Verdict and 1 Path. I thought really hard about Gaddock Teeg to stop Cryptic Command, but it didn't seem worth it.
Game 2 he suspended AV on turn 1 and then another on turn 3. I was a bit slow on mana, and made some poor choices like aggressively Ghost Quartering to try to keep him off red mana, which he alway seemed to fetch more of. I Negated the first Vision when it came off of suspend, and felt pretty in control, but then I GQ'd my own land to get a Forest so I could play Primeval Titan, which he countered. Second Vision resolved, and he slowly Tasigured and burned me down despite me gaining 8 life. I got him to three and I think tighter play might have won me that one.
Game 3 I made the hugest mistake ever, which was not blocking his Tasigur multiple times despite having THREE Walls of Omens in play. I literally forgot that I could block. Even then I would have won, but I made some other small mistakes. One was not Ghost Quartering his Creeping Tar Pits, because I wanted to keep it for fixing, which cost me about 6 life. Then, I waited a turn without doing the GQ trick to get a plains, when I could have gotten Emeria online. Then, after I did get Emeria online, I returned Sun Titan to the board, and with his trigger, I meant to get Saffi, but grabbed a Rallier instead - just moving too fast. Anyway, I'm not crying over spilled milk, just saying that I think this is a good matchup and my poor play cost me Game 3 and possibly Game 2 also. That said, my opponent was quite skilled, and got all the edge and value that he could out of this deck.
Looking back, I think maybe I should have sideboarded in my Leylines, because Lightning Bolt and Kolaghan's Command won him both games. My opponent also thought that I should have brought in Teeg, but I still think it's too narrow. What do you folks think?
Round 4: Won 2-1 against Monogreen Stompy - This matchup is incredibly easy if they don't draw the nuts hand.
Game 1 I killed his stuff and beat down with a Titan. I did have the fun interaction of saccing my own Selfless Spirit and then Wrathing the board.
Game 2 He had the nuts. I played T2 Lone Missionary and T3 Flickerwisp, so I had gained 8 life. On Turn 4 he played double Aspect of Hydra on an unblocked creature to do 19 damage and win.
Game 3 belonged to Scavenging Ooze. I had some removal, which helped, and gained 4 life on turn 2, but once I got Ooze in play it took over the game. I won with 26 life.
Overall I loved it, but really need some practice, especially to work on getting the right lands. The 3 Ghost Quarters was definitely overkill, so I'll go back to 2. However I think I'll stay with 2 Emerias. Those plus the forest and island will put me at 6 non-plains lands, and 18 plains/fetches, so that should be better. Primeval Titan is still on probation and might be better in a GW build instead of Bant.
Regarding sideboard, Scavenging Ooze was the MVP and Leyline of Sanctity definitely earned it's place. Four SB slots against artifacts may be too much, and Stony Silence is good against many decks, so it may be the Seals that have to go to make room for Spreading Seas.
As always, please feel free to give constructive criticism. Thanks for reading my novel....
Yes, Gaddock Teeg replaces Verdicts against Control and Scapeshift and Tron.
Runed Halo is good against a specific card, assuming one knows what to name... some main ones I guess are Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle, Lightning Storm, Mountain, Reality Smasher, Conflagrate and Inkmoth Nexus, all of which are stopped by Leyline except the Creatures.
However the main reason I run Leyline is against Burn, but that only slows them down, doesn't stop them. Maybe those slots should just be Kitchen Finks? What do you guys like against Burn? I have found Blessed Alliance a little weak in other decks...
Here's the whole deck for reference. I welcome any discussion! Thanks...
4 Lone Missionary
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Wall of Omens
2 Saffi Eriksdotter
1 Selfless Spirit
3 Flickerwisp
3 Renegade Rallier
1 Restoration Angel
1 Primeval Titan
2 Sun Titan
11 Spells:
1 Blasting Station
1 Beast Within
2 Detention Sphere
3 Supreme Verdict
4 Path to Exile
7 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
3 Flooded Strand
3 Ghost Quarter
2 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
2 Temple Garden
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Forest
1 Island
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Stony Silence
2 Negate
2 Meddling Mage
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Scavenging Ooze
I really like the Spreading Seas idea, but not sure how to fit it in. My current sideboard is:
Hi Fayrawks - I haven't seen him lately... what I recall is that he switched to Blasting Station, and that he was happy with Tireless Tracker. I know that card is great value, but not sure in this deck... It doesn't have an ETB, but it does get more clues from recurring lands with Rallier/Titan, and card draw is strong, even for 2. Also, maybe less importantly, cracking a clue triggers revolt. I may try to fit one in.
I'm brewing Bant version right now, which doesn't seem too awkward in goldfish, but I haven't played real games yet. Will post later.
I know the guy who top 8'd an IQ with that list you linked above - I'll ask him if he's considered Beast Within when I see him again - it seems good. The deck has evolved a bit since that tournament... He switched the Mortarpods for Blasting Stations and a few other changes.
Hi thnkr! Can I see this Squadron/Copter list? I want a list to build online and this sounds like fun!