I think a suggestion was made somewhere about trying rigid 2 week maximum deadlines for a while to see how it plays out. Those deadlines were very well received in Ace Attorney, and seems to be the best blend of 'long enough so that mafia can be a hobby rather than your only hobby' while still keeping the game moving at a reasonable clip.
I say this as someone who has been a part of two of the most drug out, epic endgames the site has had, even.
As the person who hosted Ace Attorney, I can confirm that the two week deadlines gave the players enough time to accomplish what they wanted to do as well as kept the game moving at a rapid clip (19 player Specialty that started in March and concluded in May). I like two week deadlines with a bunch of emergency deadline extension options, with on the ball mods - we were able to get replacements quite quickly, and I don't think the game had much of a problem with lurkers?
That was an excellent game. I enjoyed it very much.
I'm pretty sure there are just as many people who feel that the long deadlines are welcome.
I personally don't see a problem with my proposed system (# of players + lynch threshold in days, to be changed at host discretion for certain types of setups.
I certainly don't want to advocate for removing something that a group of people enjoy.
But as many have said, it might be leading to the death of the forum (among other factors, of course).
We'll have great Normal games when hosts stop making these two mistakes: thinking Normal are the equivalent of Large Basics (where "Basic" implies genericness and predictability), and thinking you need non-core mechanics or extra complexity to make a game exciting.
There is a middle ground between Large Basic and Specialty Lite, which is where Normals should prosper. To find this middle ground is, apparently and unfortunately, extremely difficult for many designers.
Maybe a set of 6 minis where things are kept simple and newer players can hone their skills.
A "Campaign" of 3~4 Micro games of increasing complexity, meant to be played by mostly the same players (by signing up to the first you sign up for the whole thing), with a continuous storyline. I don't know if it's doable, but I'd love to see it happen.
Yeah, but I think minis would be better. Micros seem to volatile for newbies.
I second Voxx on the neutrals thing. i'm a nwer player and I've jsut never seen the appeal of games with 1)multiple neutrals
2)powerful neutrals
It just takes too much away from town vs. scum.
And yeah, the time controls are insanely long and get complained about in each game.
Also we should hold people more accountable to actually posting. The player base has to keep reminding mods to prod people OVER nad OVER again. Do other sites have as many prods as here? I'm curious.
Okay, guys - I just need to go on the record with this:
You sign up to host a super awesome PCQ/Specialty game that you poured your heart and soul into, and after months of reviewing, and months of waiting on the queue, you get your chance to run your game! All you have to do is wait for it to fill. Except, people are getting impatient and keep /outing of your game to join the totally awesome Mini or Micro that's filling up much faster!
So you wait.
And wait.
And wait some more.
...
3 months pass. Do you still want to run your game? Maybe your circumstances changed and you're not able to host any more because of school or new responsibilities at work or something, and the game came up at the perfect time for you to be able to run it, and now you can't. Additionally, the players who initially signed up for the game are probably losing interest in your game, as well, because it isn't filling, and it won't fill.
You had a bad experience with the hosting process. I can't say that would make you likely want to return to host, for example, a smaller game later on with your less time.
This is why I think allowing multiple sign-ups at a time is a terrible, awful idea.
People seem to forget that the people hosting our games are also our players. Look at how barren our queue is! If we chase away players, we also lose hosts, and vice-versa.
People keep suggesting we allow whatever sign-ups go at whatever time. If we permit this, then I must insist that we completely remove bigger games from our site. They will not fill. This is based in empirical data. I have seen this happen. To suggest that it will not happen is utterly naive.
Unfortunately, this also means that veterans such as ZeDorkSlipeur and Voxxicus will be alienated - which is not something I want to see happen.
I really don't know what the correct approach is, any more. If Eco's complexity creep fears are validated upon implementing a size-based queue, then we still lose those players.
Can anyone come up with an argument for why any one approach is the single-best approach to resolving this problem?
Why wouldn't they just play in both? If they really want to play in the special, large game then they will, if not then they wont. Having minis or micros wouldn't stop me from playing in a larger game. The main problem is that the player base is super tiny! We shouldn't be catering to the tiny crowd you should CREATE the larger crowd that can support multiple games.
@Ecophagy-I'm curious on why you want four weeks for day one. I can pull comments from almost every game I've played in on this site complaining about the day one drag. What value does it create to have a month when most of the time will be spent with the players waiting till a couple days before the deadline to do anything?
So what day length do people think would be optimal?
Two weeks is very long yet still gives you time to do anything you need to do. We also should try and attract or even cater to active, high content players. We have a lot of regulars that spend a large part of the time V/LA. For some it's unavoidable but for most it's really not. I work 40 plus hours, go to school, write novels, take my gf out often and hang out with friends and still find tons of time to play. Even if I worked 60 hours per week it would be trivial to spend 15 minutes a day keeping up.
There are zero games that one can enter right now. Yes, a big games just fired off a couple days ago but how long are people going to have to wait to join a game. There should be some sort of game signing people up at all times.
And the long days are no joke. Because of these long days people take V/LA and just wait till a more pressing time to engage seriously. It's bad for the forum.
I love playing here, I love the community, I love the style, I love the games.
I recently went away because I dialed back my game-playing for a little while, then made a return because I'd been skimming some games here and were interested in a few of the players, had tons of fun with a couple of games that I've played, then left because navigating Curse took far too long and was far too frustrating for me to be able to reread games in the depth that I like to when I'm playing games with normal paces, and now will happily return again now that I've installed Ad Block Plus and posting on this site is no longer annoying as hell.
You might also create some system for helping brand new players learn the game and have veteran players know who is new, etc. I remember through my first two or three games people would just tell me I'm a bad player over and over again, even though I was playing just fine for an absolute rookie. It could easily discourage players.
I think you also have to consider the time controls as well. People come here hoping to play Mafia and learn the game but then they sit for two weeks with half of the players VLA or just not participating. It's boring. People likely get curious of others sites and notice the faster paces of other sites and just leave without ever looking back.
I don't think there's particularly strong analysis going on just because of the long time controls either (as was supposed). Usually lurkers end up getting lynched quite a bit, which oddly enough often ends up being scum here.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
That was an excellent game. I enjoyed it very much.
I certainly don't want to advocate for removing something that a group of people enjoy.
But as many have said, it might be leading to the death of the forum (among other factors, of course).
That sounds great!
Yeah, but I think minis would be better. Micros seem to volatile for newbies.
Maybe a set of 6 minis where things are kept simple and newer players can hone their skills.
2)powerful neutrals
It just takes too much away from town vs. scum.
And yeah, the time controls are insanely long and get complained about in each game.
Also we should hold people more accountable to actually posting. The player base has to keep reminding mods to prod people OVER nad OVER again. Do other sites have as many prods as here? I'm curious.
Why wouldn't they just play in both? If they really want to play in the special, large game then they will, if not then they wont. Having minis or micros wouldn't stop me from playing in a larger game. The main problem is that the player base is super tiny! We shouldn't be catering to the tiny crowd you should CREATE the larger crowd that can support multiple games.
Two weeks is very long yet still gives you time to do anything you need to do. We also should try and attract or even cater to active, high content players. We have a lot of regulars that spend a large part of the time V/LA. For some it's unavoidable but for most it's really not. I work 40 plus hours, go to school, write novels, take my gf out often and hang out with friends and still find tons of time to play. Even if I worked 60 hours per week it would be trivial to spend 15 minutes a day keeping up.
There are zero games that one can enter right now. Yes, a big games just fired off a couple days ago but how long are people going to have to wait to join a game. There should be some sort of game signing people up at all times.
And the long days are no joke. Because of these long days people take V/LA and just wait till a more pressing time to engage seriously. It's bad for the forum.
Nacho we need you back man!
I think you also have to consider the time controls as well. People come here hoping to play Mafia and learn the game but then they sit for two weeks with half of the players VLA or just not participating. It's boring. People likely get curious of others sites and notice the faster paces of other sites and just leave without ever looking back.
I don't think there's particularly strong analysis going on just because of the long time controls either (as was supposed). Usually lurkers end up getting lynched quite a bit, which oddly enough often ends up being scum here.