2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'm pretty sure there are just as many people who feel that the long deadlines are welcome.
I personally don't see a problem with my proposed system (# of players + lynch threshold in days, to be changed at host discretion for certain types of setups.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Eco: You realize that the reason people got bored with Normals was because of the restrictions we put on them, right? How is just calling Normals "Large Basics" any different from this? It's just putting a fresh name to an old face.
We had this exact conversation when we killed the League, and the agreement was that the League was holding Normals down and making them be lower complexity than they needed to be. The whole point of killing the League and reinstating Normals was to allow them to once again utilise their design space without being oppressed by the League. Normals are categorically not large Basics, and none of the restrictions on Normals mandate that.
Yet I've seen nothing but complaints about the newer Normals since Stargate, as well.
Again, I think you're taking the interpretation of "large Basics" a bit too literally, here, because you haven't answered the question: What is wrong with labeling Normals "Large Basics" and putting them in the same queue as "Small Basics" if nothing is changing about the Normals other than the name?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Eco: You realize that the reason people got bored with Normals was because of the restrictions we put on them, right? How is just calling Normals "Large Basics" any different from this? It's just putting a fresh name to an old face.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Actually, I really like zindabad's idea of Small and Large Basics. Large Basics are basically just relabeling our Normals, but I think that that will make them more accessible to newer players. Additionally, I agree that the FTQ committee was good to have, as we almost always had submissions (sans a few times, IIRC). I think the problem with the previous FTQ was that we didn't have enough advertising for it, so we only ever got a small handful of submissions every time we did it.
So: What if we re-implement the Basic queue, allowing for small and large Basics (which will mean that players can get their Normal fix, and we have something accessible to newer players), re-implement the FTQ while still dropping the Specialty queue, which will motivate players to create more cutting-edge games for the players who want those, drop the PCQ, and keep Micros where they are?
Oh, and for deadlines: I still like "# of living players + lynch threshold" in days for Days and 72 hours for Night, though with smaller games, I think 2-3 weeks is fair for Day 1.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
As mentioned, we have been trying to keep Normals alive. Some of the more complex Normals lately - Stargate comes to mind - have stemmed as a direct result of complaints that Normals became stale and watered down after we implemented strict design criteria on them.
Yet now that we've spiced the Normals up a bit, people are voicing their distaste about it.
It seems there isn't a middle ground, here. Voxx, maybe you could make some suggestions for what we could do with Normals to appeal to both the players that want more and the players that want less? It just feels like we're in a lose-lose situation, here.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Okay, guys - I just need to go on the record with this:
You sign up to host a super awesome PCQ/Specialty game that you poured your heart and soul into, and after months of reviewing, and months of waiting on the queue, you get your chance to run your game! All you have to do is wait for it to fill. Except, people are getting impatient and keep /outing of your game to join the totally awesome Mini or Micro that's filling up much faster!
So you wait.
And wait.
And wait some more.
...
3 months pass. Do you still want to run your game? Maybe your circumstances changed and you're not able to host any more because of school or new responsibilities at work or something, and the game came up at the perfect time for you to be able to run it, and now you can't. Additionally, the players who initially signed up for the game are probably losing interest in your game, as well, because it isn't filling, and it won't fill.
You had a bad experience with the hosting process. I can't say that would make you likely want to return to host, for example, a smaller game later on with your less time.
This is why I think allowing multiple sign-ups at a time is a terrible, awful idea.
People seem to forget that the people hosting our games are also our players. Look at how barren our queue is! If we chase away players, we also lose hosts, and vice-versa.
People keep suggesting we allow whatever sign-ups go at whatever time. If we permit this, then I must insist that we completely remove bigger games from our site. They will not fill. This is based in empirical data. I have seen this happen. To suggest that it will not happen is utterly naive.
Unfortunately, this also means that veterans such as ZeDorkSlipeur and Voxxicus will be alienated - which is not something I want to see happen.
I really don't know what the correct approach is, any more. If Eco's complexity creep fears are validated upon implementing a size-based queue, then we still lose those players.
Can anyone come up with an argument for why any one approach is the single-best approach to resolving this problem?
Why wouldn't they just play in both? If they really want to play in the special, large game then they will, if not then they wont. Having minis or micros wouldn't stop me from playing in a larger game. The main problem is that the player base is super tiny! We shouldn't be catering to the tiny crowd you should CREATE the larger crowd that can support multiple games.
Not everyone has the time to commit to multiple games. Speaking as someone who used to play in 10 games at a time, even 2 games is pushing it for me, these days.
-
@Eco: I would be glad to advertise for us on MU at some point.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
The biggest problems I see with this suggestion is that if it becomes a total popularity contest, then we stamp out the minority voices (such as the aforementioned) and lose those players. We also can't exactly schedule our players to show up and vote, so the games that are selected may not necessarily represent what's desired by the larger number of players, either, which would keep them dissatisfied, as well.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
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You could also bring up the politics of multiplayer Magic formats and how they compared to Mafia politics.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Also, I thought we were dropping Specialty in favor of making all games of that sort FTQ?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
What's the progress on recruiting?
What's the progress on article-writing?
Has anyone reached out to old vets? I know HAWKEYE is coming back soon.
Did we ever decide on a finalized queue structure? If so, we should probably tell our Secretaries how to update the Hosting thread.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I personally don't see a problem with my proposed system (# of players + lynch threshold in days, to be changed at host discretion for certain types of setups.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Yet I've seen nothing but complaints about the newer Normals since Stargate, as well.
Again, I think you're taking the interpretation of "large Basics" a bit too literally, here, because you haven't answered the question: What is wrong with labeling Normals "Large Basics" and putting them in the same queue as "Small Basics" if nothing is changing about the Normals other than the name?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
So: What if we re-implement the Basic queue, allowing for small and large Basics (which will mean that players can get their Normal fix, and we have something accessible to newer players), re-implement the FTQ while still dropping the Specialty queue, which will motivate players to create more cutting-edge games for the players who want those, drop the PCQ, and keep Micros where they are?
Oh, and for deadlines: I still like "# of living players + lynch threshold" in days for Days and 72 hours for Night, though with smaller games, I think 2-3 weeks is fair for Day 1.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
As mentioned, we have been trying to keep Normals alive. Some of the more complex Normals lately - Stargate comes to mind - have stemmed as a direct result of complaints that Normals became stale and watered down after we implemented strict design criteria on them.
Yet now that we've spiced the Normals up a bit, people are voicing their distaste about it.
It seems there isn't a middle ground, here. Voxx, maybe you could make some suggestions for what we could do with Normals to appeal to both the players that want more and the players that want less? It just feels like we're in a lose-lose situation, here.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Not everyone has the time to commit to multiple games. Speaking as someone who used to play in 10 games at a time, even 2 games is pushing it for me, these days.
-
@Eco: I would be glad to advertise for us on MU at some point.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player