Lands (22)
2 Forest
1 Mountain
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Karplusan Forest
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Stomping Ground
2 Wooded Foothills
Spells (13)
1 Batterskull
2 Mind Stone
2 Dismember
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Ancient Stirrings
Sideboard
3 Ancient Grudge
2 Crumble to Dust
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Kozilek's Return
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 All Is Dust
Jeskai Control
+2 Relic of Progenitus
+2 Kitchen Finks
-2 Dismember
-1 Batterskull
-1 Eldrazi obligator
Scapeshift
+2 Crumble To Dust
-2 Dismember
Amulet Titan
+3 Ancient Grudge
+1 Kozilek's Return
-2 Mind Stone
-2 Matter Reshaper
@pabloduque32
I think the difference for us with Blood Moon reflects our supplemental mana sources. Since I am using two mana rocks and no BoP or Nest Invader, I don't have too much trouble with it out and I find it a much more effective hoser against Control than Crumble. Plus, it comes down a turn earlier. That said, it does not work without 2-3 dedicated mana rocks (ought to be Talisman of Impule in my list, I didn't change that) because it gives me permanent access to , R or G.
Nest Invader is neat tech though, and I could see using it instead since it becomes uncounterable with Cavern out and makes a 2/2 body alongside some mana.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard
Tempo Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
GR Eldrazi FTWs, Milwaukee SCG Open
Interesting build, stronger against Burn (which he beat in the Finals), no land hate at all (not fighting Tron on that axis),
I have to admit, I had a ton of fun with a build using 3 Blood Moon sideboard and 3 Talisman of Impulse main. It has been singularly brutal against Control, Valakut decks, and Tron (Crumble is actually a little better against Tron, but only a little.)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard
Tempo Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
@adamwilbert
I think the deck does fine with Blood Moon in the side. I have had no issues casting spells with 4 mana dorks and 3 mana rocks (I would not run less than 3), but I am seriously considering just dropping Mind Stone and playing the 3rd Talisman. The reason it works is the combination of BBE and Stirrings. Between the two, your chances of getting a mana rock early enough to then sustain or fight through a Blood Moon is quite good.
This is also a rather different deck from E-Tron, just as it is different from Bant, BW Eldrazi (whether the mid-range Thoughtseize deck or the Death and Taxes deck) or Death and Staxes.
E-Tron is a little big mana deck or to put it another way, it is the mid-range cousin of Tron as control deck. It wants, but does not need, Tron and uses it as often as not to just put the last nail in the coffin with Walking Ballista, the card that has really made the deck Tier 1. But it also is happy playing sweepers and such, plus early or even mid-game Chalice of the Void, so like any classic mid-range deck it has a little value and control, and very good creatures that individually or in mobs are hard to deal with. For me, this is Value Town mid-range.
Bant and BW Eldrazi are also really similar, but Bant was the go-to deck until you could drop a turn 3 Ballista for 3 and destroy all of their mana dorks, a token and maybe a creature too. BW Eldrazi was a more or less one-shot meta call 9 months ago and just isn't as consistent as E-Tron. Neither of them was especially fast, though Bant could get aggressive starts with mana dorks, and even then, it was a grind deck.
BW Eldrazi and Taxes is a little more of a tempo deck, hoping to hinder your opponent's resources and use them against them as fuel for you. It's not really a prison deck, though it certainly has soft-lock elements and it has a bit more of a go-wide quality. Humans did a much better version of this and marginalized it (and Spirits and Merfolk) for a while.
Death and Staxes is the aggro-prison version, trying to jam out turn 1 Thalias, Arbiters and Chalices followed up by large, unanswerable threats on turns 2 and 3. It is still a bit tempo because it generally can't win until the mid-game, but it can lock opponents out of doing much far more effectively than what is called DnT in Modern most of the time. It also lives and dies off of opening hands and top decks, much like DnT in Legacy and because it uses one-shot mana and big creatures, it does not go wide well.
RG Eldrazi, especially with BBE, is a classic mid-range beatdown deck. It wants to accelerate into powerful threats quickly and let it's creature go bigger than small aggro decks and be more explosive than removal/hand destruction-centric classic mid-range decks. Unlike Value Town mid-range that has a 1-for-1 answer to everything, it can keep throwing big creatures at you. IMO, RG in its current state with BBE does that better than anything else of it's type in the format.
So Eldrazi really fall into 2 archetypes: Tempo aka Aggro-Control and Mid-range (Beatdown or Value Town), but it seems unlikely to be the centerpiece of any Control strategy and they run a bit fat to really play the aggro game (aggro literally is 1 and 2 drops that end the game turns 4-5 through damage, and so many combo decks like Infect and Storm are in fact aggro decks as much as Burn or Zoo.)
Definitely better than Bant and BW and E-Tron. I even like it better than Death and Staxes, which was amazing in a certain meta.
Okay, a little justification: A Velocity
***BBE 2-for-1s
***12+ maindeck haste creatures
***Ramp B Card Advantage
***BBE
***Matter Reshaper
***Obligator
***Thought-Knot Seer (take a card and get a 4/4)
***Ancient Stirrings C Consistency
***Stirrings
***Lots of 4-ofs not 1-ofs main
***BBE and Reshaper
***Mana dorks/rocks D Reach
***Lightning bolt
***Kessig
***Trample + Exalted E Mixed and powerful sideboard that benefits from the consistency engine
***Blood Moon
***Lots of mixed but overlapping sideboard hate
BBE completely changes the deck from a very smart meta call to a very solid, aggressive build with longevity, IMO.
@CajunTex337
I like the idea of Rhonas the Indomitable, but one thing I like about Hazoret the Fervent is that it doubles as burn that doesn't target, using up dead draws and providing an alternate wincon.
I also unsleeved most of my decks away in Modern for this. What is amazing is the amount of card advantage for a deck that is this aggressive: Matter Reshaper, Bloodbraid Elf, and Ancient Stirrings make the deck hard to get over on.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard
Tempo Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Ran the deck tonight without Ancient Stirrings (they have not arrived yet) and it was still sick. 3-1 tonight, beat Jeskai Control and Jeskai midrange, Elves, and lost to Burn. Burn feels difficult if the Burn player is smart enough to kill your dorks.
I can only imagine how much more consistent this is with 4 Stirrings.
NOTES (keeping in mind this is only with about 20 games in):
- Hated Ooze, it was just completely lackluster.
- Hierarch was amazingly good. There is a huge difference between turn 2 Tks and Turn 3, but also Exalted was huge.
- 2/1 Talisman/Stone felt pretty good. I was always happy to see them. Could just be 3 Talisman.
- Blood. Frickin. Moon. Oh yeah. Won both Jeskai matches with it. With 3 rocks and 4 dorks and only two basics, I had very few problems.
- If Lantern is dead, might not need 2/2 Ancient Grudge and Natural State. Would be nice to have an extra slot.
- Maybe Kessig needs to be Wastes? I never finished a game with it, but that doesn't mean you won't. Seems like it gives reach. The mana is pretty tight and more basics would be nice, but you can't overdo it either.
- Hazoret was a house against non-Path to Exile decks, but it is obviously a top deck card.
I think this is where I will be once I get my Stirrings, with some changes still in mind.
I think I am going to miss Dismember (maybe a little offset from Collar?) and I don't know about the 2/2 Relic/Cage split. I understand why someone might go with all Relic, but Cage stymies the CoCo-Chord decks pretty efficiently and also jams up flashback.
World Breaker seems interesting, but 6G is a lot of mana for a card you don't want to see too early.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard
Tempo Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
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4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Eldrazi Obligator
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Birds of Paradise
Lands (22)
2 Forest
1 Mountain
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Karplusan Forest
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Stomping Ground
2 Wooded Foothills
Spells (13)
1 Batterskull
2 Mind Stone
2 Dismember
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Ancient Stirrings
Sideboard
3 Ancient Grudge
2 Crumble to Dust
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Kozilek's Return
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 All Is Dust
+2 Relic of Progenitus
+2 Kitchen Finks
-2 Dismember
-1 Batterskull
-1 Eldrazi obligator
Scapeshift
+2 Crumble To Dust
-2 Dismember
Amulet Titan
+3 Ancient Grudge
+1 Kozilek's Return
-2 Mind Stone
-2 Matter Reshaper
KCI
+3 Ancient Grudge
+2 Relic
+1 Ratchet Bomb
-2 Dismember
-4 Bolt
Burn
+2 Kitchen Finks
-2 Dismember
G Tron
+2 Crumble To Dust
+3 Ancient Grudge
-2 Dismember
-3 Bolt
Affinity
+3 Ancient Grudge
+1 Anger of the Gods
+1 Ratchet Bomb
+1 Kozilek's Return
-4 Reality Smasher
-2 Eldrazi Obligator
Humans
+1 All is Dust
+1 Kozilek's Return
+1 Ratchet Bomb
+2 Kitchen Finks
-4 Matter Reshaper
-1 Eldrazi Obligator
Gifts Storm
+1 Grafdigger's Cage
+2 Relic of Progenitus
+1 Ratchet Bomb
+1 Anger of the Gods
-4 Obligator
-1 Batterskull
GR Hollow One
+1 Grafdigger's Cage
+2 Relic
+1 Anger of the Gods
-4 Matter Reshaper
Bogles
+1 Ratchet Bomb
+1 Kozilek's return
+1 Anger of the Gods
+1 All is Dust
-2 Mind Stone
-2 Dismember
Mardu Pyromancer
+1 Kozilek's Return
+1 Anger of the Gods
+2 Relic of Pro
+1 All is Dust
-1 Batterskull
-4 Eldrazi Obligator
Living End
+2 Relic of Progenitus
+1 All is Dust
-3 Bolt
GW Company/Bant Spirits/Elves
+1 All is dust
+1 Kozilek's Return
+1 Grafdigger's Cage
+1 Anger of the Gods
-4 Matter Reshaper
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
I think the difference for us with Blood Moon reflects our supplemental mana sources. Since I am using two mana rocks and no BoP or Nest Invader, I don't have too much trouble with it out and I find it a much more effective hoser against Control than Crumble. Plus, it comes down a turn earlier. That said, it does not work without 2-3 dedicated mana rocks (ought to be Talisman of Impule in my list, I didn't change that) because it gives me permanent access to , R or G.
Nest Invader is neat tech though, and I could see using it instead since it becomes uncounterable with Cavern out and makes a 2/2 body alongside some mana.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Anyone wanna share sideboard plans?
4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Eldrazi Obligator
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Thragtusk
Lands (22)
2 Forest
1 Mountain
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Karplusan Forest
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Stomping Ground
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Batterskull
2 Mind Stone
2 Dismember
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Ancient Stirrings
3 Blood Moon
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Kozilek's Return
2 Natural State
1 All Is Dust
Jeskai Control/Scapeshift
+3 Blood Moon
-2 Dismember
-1 Batterskull
KCI
+2 Ancient Grudge
+2 Natural State
+2 Relic
-2 Dismember
-4 Bolt
Burn
+2 Kitchen Finks
-2 Dismember
G Tron
+3 Blood Moon
+2 Ancient Grudge
+1 Natural State
-2 Dismember
-4 Bolt
Affinity
+2 Ancient Grudge
+2 Natural State
+2 Kozilek's Return
-4 Reality Smasher
-2 Matter Reshaper
Amulet Titan
+2 Ancient Grudge
+1 Kozilek's Return
+3 Blood Moon
-4 Bolt
-2 Dismember
Humans
+1 All is Dust
+2 Kozilek's Return
+2 Kitchen Finks
-5 ???
Gifts Storm
+1 Grafdigger's Cage
+2 Relic of Progenitus
+2 Kozilek's Return
-4 Obligator
-1 Batterskull
GR Hollow One
+1 Grafdigger's Cage
+2 Relic
-3 Matter Reshaper
Bogles
+2 Natural State
+2 Kozilek's return
+1 All is Dust
-3 Obligator
-2 Dismember
Mardu Pyromancer
+2 Kozilek's Return
+2 Relic of Pro
+1 All is Dust
-1 Batterskull
-4 Matter Reshaper
Living End
+2 Relic of Progenitus
+1 All is Dust
-3 Bolt
GW Company/Bant Spirits/Elves
+1 All is dust
+2 Kozilek's Return
+1 Grafdigger's Cage
-4 Matter Reshaper
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Interesting build, stronger against Burn (which he beat in the Finals), no land hate at all (not fighting Tron on that axis),
4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Eldrazi Obligator
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Thragtusk
Lands (22)
2 Forest
1 Mountain
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Karplusan Forest
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Stomping Ground
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Batterskull
2 Mind Stone
2 Dismember
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Ancient Stirrings
1 Chalice of the Void
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Ratchet Bomb
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Kozilek's Return
2 Natural State
1 Warping Wail
1 All Is Dust
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
That remains to be seen. I have more fun with it, that's for sure.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
I think the deck does fine with Blood Moon in the side. I have had no issues casting spells with 4 mana dorks and 3 mana rocks (I would not run less than 3), but I am seriously considering just dropping Mind Stone and playing the 3rd Talisman. The reason it works is the combination of BBE and Stirrings. Between the two, your chances of getting a mana rock early enough to then sustain or fight through a Blood Moon is quite good.
This is also a rather different deck from E-Tron, just as it is different from Bant, BW Eldrazi (whether the mid-range Thoughtseize deck or the Death and Taxes deck) or Death and Staxes.
E-Tron is a little big mana deck or to put it another way, it is the mid-range cousin of Tron as control deck. It wants, but does not need, Tron and uses it as often as not to just put the last nail in the coffin with Walking Ballista, the card that has really made the deck Tier 1. But it also is happy playing sweepers and such, plus early or even mid-game Chalice of the Void, so like any classic mid-range deck it has a little value and control, and very good creatures that individually or in mobs are hard to deal with. For me, this is Value Town mid-range.
Bant and BW Eldrazi are also really similar, but Bant was the go-to deck until you could drop a turn 3 Ballista for 3 and destroy all of their mana dorks, a token and maybe a creature too. BW Eldrazi was a more or less one-shot meta call 9 months ago and just isn't as consistent as E-Tron. Neither of them was especially fast, though Bant could get aggressive starts with mana dorks, and even then, it was a grind deck.
BW Eldrazi and Taxes is a little more of a tempo deck, hoping to hinder your opponent's resources and use them against them as fuel for you. It's not really a prison deck, though it certainly has soft-lock elements and it has a bit more of a go-wide quality. Humans did a much better version of this and marginalized it (and Spirits and Merfolk) for a while.
Death and Staxes is the aggro-prison version, trying to jam out turn 1 Thalias, Arbiters and Chalices followed up by large, unanswerable threats on turns 2 and 3. It is still a bit tempo because it generally can't win until the mid-game, but it can lock opponents out of doing much far more effectively than what is called DnT in Modern most of the time. It also lives and dies off of opening hands and top decks, much like DnT in Legacy and because it uses one-shot mana and big creatures, it does not go wide well.
RG Eldrazi, especially with BBE, is a classic mid-range beatdown deck. It wants to accelerate into powerful threats quickly and let it's creature go bigger than small aggro decks and be more explosive than removal/hand destruction-centric classic mid-range decks. Unlike Value Town mid-range that has a 1-for-1 answer to everything, it can keep throwing big creatures at you. IMO, RG in its current state with BBE does that better than anything else of it's type in the format.
So Eldrazi really fall into 2 archetypes: Tempo aka Aggro-Control and Mid-range (Beatdown or Value Town), but it seems unlikely to be the centerpiece of any Control strategy and they run a bit fat to really play the aggro game (aggro literally is 1 and 2 drops that end the game turns 4-5 through damage, and so many combo decks like Infect and Storm are in fact aggro decks as much as Burn or Zoo.)
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Okay, a little justification:
A Velocity
***BBE 2-for-1s
***12+ maindeck haste creatures
***Ramp
B Card Advantage
***BBE
***Matter Reshaper
***Obligator
***Thought-Knot Seer (take a card and get a 4/4)
***Ancient Stirrings
C Consistency
***Stirrings
***Lots of 4-ofs not 1-ofs main
***BBE and Reshaper
***Mana dorks/rocks
D Reach
***Lightning bolt
***Kessig
***Trample + Exalted
E Mixed and powerful sideboard that benefits from the consistency engine
***Blood Moon
***Lots of mixed but overlapping sideboard hate
BBE completely changes the deck from a very smart meta call to a very solid, aggressive build with longevity, IMO.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
I like the idea of Rhonas the Indomitable, but one thing I like about Hazoret the Fervent is that it doubles as burn that doesn't target, using up dead draws and providing an alternate wincon.
I also unsleeved most of my decks away in Modern for this. What is amazing is the amount of card advantage for a deck that is this aggressive: Matter Reshaper, Bloodbraid Elf, and Ancient Stirrings make the deck hard to get over on.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Eldrazi Obligator
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Hazoret the Fervent
2 Scavenging Ooze
Lands 22
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Karplusan Forest
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Stomping Ground
1 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Talisman of Impulse
1 Mind Stone
2 Dismember
3 Blood Moon
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Natural State
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Kozilek's Return
I can only imagine how much more consistent this is with 4 Stirrings.
NOTES (keeping in mind this is only with about 20 games in):
- Hated Ooze, it was just completely lackluster.
- Hierarch was amazingly good. There is a huge difference between turn 2 Tks and Turn 3, but also Exalted was huge.
- 2/1 Talisman/Stone felt pretty good. I was always happy to see them. Could just be 3 Talisman.
- Blood. Frickin. Moon. Oh yeah. Won both Jeskai matches with it. With 3 rocks and 4 dorks and only two basics, I had very few problems.
- If Lantern is dead, might not need 2/2 Ancient Grudge and Natural State. Would be nice to have an extra slot.
- Maybe Kessig needs to be Wastes? I never finished a game with it, but that doesn't mean you won't. Seems like it gives reach. The mana is pretty tight and more basics would be nice, but you can't overdo it either.
- Hazoret was a house against non-Path to Exile decks, but it is obviously a top deck card.
I think this is where I will be once I get my Stirrings, with some changes still in mind.
4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Eldrazi Obligator
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Hazoret the Fervent
Lands 22
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Karplusan Forest
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Stomping Ground
1 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Basilisk Collar
2 Talisman of Impulse
1 Mind Stone
4 Ancient Stirrings
3 Blood Moon
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Natural State
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Kozilek's Return
I think I am going to miss Dismember (maybe a little offset from Collar?) and I don't know about the 2/2 Relic/Cage split. I understand why someone might go with all Relic, but Cage stymies the CoCo-Chord decks pretty efficiently and also jams up flashback.
World Breaker seems interesting, but 6G is a lot of mana for a card you don't want to see too early.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.