One thing I didn't realize until I just played a match against Hoogak is that Force of Negation is really good at protecting RiP and Stony against Nature's Claim.
I wouldn’t suggest exactly it, but the list in TheAnnihilator signature is a good starting point (I would play second Sphere and a pair of little Teferi/Narset instead of FoF).
Well, I'm glad you feel that way about my list, haha. I never actually switched away from Terminus. 4 mana wraths kept leaving me ready to get blown out after not exiling or tucking, or simply by followup plays.
I played Narset/T3feri briefly in the main, but they felt bad -- Narset because of it's bad with Terminus and doesn't actually impact the board, Teferi because it only makes a relative impact in Control matchups. Otherwise T3feri's a 3 mana, sorcery-speed bounce spell with gain ~1 life, which isn't really an effect I'm looking for in UW. In fact, even when Teferi stuck, he didn't actually do anything. One bounce, and 3 turns of nothing until a 2nd bounce? Yikes. FoF seems bad too, but it's a flex spot right now and it seems like it at least warrants testing.
Beat the Rock, Spirits, black devotion and burn, dropping only one game vs black devotion through flooding out. 3 mana planeswalkers were nutty. Ignite the Beacon got a concession out of Rock and set up the winning play vs spirits by forcing them to fight over it on their EOT and untapping into Verdict with backup. Not sure yet if Ignite is too cute or an actual consideration but with the new walkers this felt like the strongest UWx list I've played. Didn't get to play vs anything unfair but against fair decks current UW just melts anything.
Are you finding the list better because of the presense of the 3 mana walkers, or is it the Ignite that's actually doing the legwork? Just an honest question, as at least 1 little Teferi and 1 Narset are pretty much stock at this point.
I definitely agree that the way the deck operates changes the way it's positioned, but I think that's fine based off the sheer power level of the card alone. I just don't think Teferi needs to survive very often against creature decks to make it a good play because of how much tempo it gains. UWs problems have always revolved around the mana-spent disadvantage in the early game and the bounce+draw really helps there.
I also agree that UW decks face more developed boards on T3 than BGx, Fatal Push and Discard definitely help that a lot, which is why I think Esper can utilize Teferi better. There are ways to combat that though, Tef3 makes cards like Oust so much better, not just because it helps develop that ideal board state for a turn 3 walker but because of the synergies with Tef3's +1 as well.
What do you guys think of Gideon's Triumph as well? 1W Instant - target opponent sacs a creature that attacked or blocked this turn. If you control a gideon they sac 2 instead. It's just a variant on Blessed Alliance I guess, which doesn't see a ton of play. You give up the ability to gain life for the ability to hit a blocker. Probably the life gain is more relevant. I think if you're playing gideon and snapcaster the 2nd creature sac may come up in rare instances as well.
The real gem of Gid's Triump is letting you cast it after combat damage is dealt (like eot) instead of during combat. With the others, you have to commit during combat (you can always Condemn, for example, in end of combat against Infect after damage has been dealt to avoid getting blown out by protection spell/Dispel/Pierce), but this will let you cast the effect eot to hold up counter.
Yeah, that’s a good point. I’m on a 1/1 split of hallowed fountain and prairie stream and think it’s actually really good in a deck with 8+ basics and 4 field of ruin. I’m not a fan of the farmland over prairie stream because it doesn’t allow you to do anything rot like stream does. The two life comes up fairly often. I’m a big fan of the split I’ve got and convinced the other uw player at my legs about it.
I tried this out a while ago and liked it, but everyone at my LGS convinced my it wasn't correct, including another UW player and a Jeskai player. But I still like it.
The most common answer for what land to run would be extra copies of glacial fortress. I have always had 1X copy of mystic gate in my build though since it really helps pull of cryptic commands when plains are involved!
I've avoided Ojutai so I can't speak to that one, but I think Teferi is just better and I like having the angels in the sideboard since they win so many matches.
I can't play Mystic Gate in a deck with 4 fields. It has burned me numerous times in the past when I didn't have colored mana in the opener. Sometimes Glacial and Field as the only lands works out.
Lost to Scapeshift Round 1 and Mono-G Tron in Round 9. Beat Izzet Phoenix, Eldrazi Tron, Dredge, Burn, Mono-G Tron, Eldrazi Aggro, GDS. I was really impressed with Absorb. It allowed me to bridge to the late game a lot. Also, the 3 life points mattered all but once. I'm going to replace Supreme Verdict for the 2nd Absorb. I also stuggled to get UU on Turn 2 some games. So I'm going to cut 1 Plains for a Polluted Delta.
Thoughts on my list?
It's a damn shame you lost to Scapeshift with 2 Halos in the board! I would've thought that matchup is basically a bye with your setup. Can't wait to get Counterspell for this matchup tho.
About your list, it's pretty similar to what I'm on for UW -- even down to the Surgicals over RiPs. I would've cut the 1 Stony in the board for something else, (since it's probably not worth it as a 1 of). I'd also recommend a DSphere over the Disenchant in your sideboard.
Mainboard, I think you want the 2nd Glacial over the 1st GQ, and I could see trimming a Plains for another blue source (a Glacial, Island, or Delta).
I also recently started playing 2 Hieroglyphic Illumination in the spot where you're playing Serum and I've been impressed. Do you have any thoughts on that?
I don't like that you play 2 wraths, since they're usually dead in a lot of matchups -- assuming you want to keep one in, I'd suggest probably the Settle, but then I'd swap the Condemn for an Oust to play better around discard.
Edit: How did you board against Burn? I'm curious to hear more about that matchup.
I don't think it's controversial to say that most decks won't play snare or that snare has other high value targets against us. In light of those, if you choose to play knot which is worse than counterspell against 99% of the card pool of modern and is dampened by your own sideboard plans in addition to only being useful exactly when you draw knot over counterspell (20-33% of the time) and only when your opponent has spell snare, which is likely never more than a 1-of, that's on you.
A few points: I've seen many users on here and Reddit say they will be on at least 2 Snares if we get Counterspell, and talked to people irl who agree. It's not going to be uncommon.
I also usually play Surgical over RiP, so it won't be a problem with my SB plans. Plus the difference between 3 and 4 Counterspells post board won't likely be an issue -- I often board down on counters anyways.
Knot isn't suddenly uplayable when Counterspell is legal - it's just as good as it used to be and most happen to play 2 so it should be fine to play a copy against the field.
If you get blown out in a counter war in the mirror because they play a niche card that 99% acts the same but happens to dodge the Snare you thought would win you the battle, then you may change your tune.
I’m partial to being in the “three mana counters seem bad” group in modern. Absorb also seems awkward with FoR but maybe I’m wrong?
@DaveJacinto
I can agree that 4 cryptics can create some clunky hands, I might try cutting one and going back to a snare with Phoenix being so popular. Also, care to share your list?
Having 2 Dspheres has been nice. Most people expect one. Sometimes the second catches people by surprise. I also personally don’t just like relying on Teferi tuck. Cutting one and playing another clique main isn’t a horrible idea though.
This is the list I'm currently thinking about taking to GP Bilbao.
Feel free to dissect it or ask for any specific plan. I used to be on 2 Cliques main and I loved it... The reason I changed it was because locally Tron, BGx and UWx went down significantly while Phoenix, Burn and GDS went up.
So I ended up cutting my Crucible of Worlds from the SB for a second Purge, switch Clique for the Blessed Alliance and cutting one Hieroglyphic for an Absorb.
Again, I would give you constructive criticism, but I don't really have any -- this list seems perfectly reasonable. I guess my only complaint would be that maybe you should cut the GQ since you're playing an Absorb?
Maybe play a 2nd Sphere instead of the 2nd Purge, since BGx brings in Nissa?
Even when they have the sac outlet, it's better to have Terminus than not to. Otherwise, you're probably just dead.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
Well, I'm glad you feel that way about my list, haha. I never actually switched away from Terminus. 4 mana wraths kept leaving me ready to get blown out after not exiling or tucking, or simply by followup plays.
I played Narset/T3feri briefly in the main, but they felt bad -- Narset because of it's bad with Terminus and doesn't actually impact the board, Teferi because it only makes a relative impact in Control matchups. Otherwise T3feri's a 3 mana, sorcery-speed bounce spell with gain ~1 life, which isn't really an effect I'm looking for in UW. In fact, even when Teferi stuck, he didn't actually do anything. One bounce, and 3 turns of nothing until a 2nd bounce? Yikes. FoF seems bad too, but it's a flex spot right now and it seems like it at least warrants testing.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
Are you finding the list better because of the presense of the 3 mana walkers, or is it the Ignite that's actually doing the legwork? Just an honest question, as at least 1 little Teferi and 1 Narset are pretty much stock at this point.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
The real gem of Gid's Triump is letting you cast it after combat damage is dealt (like eot) instead of during combat. With the others, you have to commit during combat (you can always Condemn, for example, in end of combat against Infect after damage has been dealt to avoid getting blown out by protection spell/Dispel/Pierce), but this will let you cast the effect eot to hold up counter.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
I tried this out a while ago and liked it, but everyone at my LGS convinced my it wasn't correct, including another UW player and a Jeskai player. But I still like it.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
I can't play Mystic Gate in a deck with 4 fields. It has burned me numerous times in the past when I didn't have colored mana in the opener. Sometimes Glacial and Field as the only lands works out.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
It's a damn shame you lost to Scapeshift with 2 Halos in the board! I would've thought that matchup is basically a bye with your setup. Can't wait to get Counterspell for this matchup tho.
About your list, it's pretty similar to what I'm on for UW -- even down to the Surgicals over RiPs. I would've cut the 1 Stony in the board for something else, (since it's probably not worth it as a 1 of). I'd also recommend a DSphere over the Disenchant in your sideboard.
Mainboard, I think you want the 2nd Glacial over the 1st GQ, and I could see trimming a Plains for another blue source (a Glacial, Island, or Delta).
I also recently started playing 2 Hieroglyphic Illumination in the spot where you're playing Serum and I've been impressed. Do you have any thoughts on that?
I don't like that you play 2 wraths, since they're usually dead in a lot of matchups -- assuming you want to keep one in, I'd suggest probably the Settle, but then I'd swap the Condemn for an Oust to play better around discard.
Edit: How did you board against Burn? I'm curious to hear more about that matchup.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
A few points: I've seen many users on here and Reddit say they will be on at least 2 Snares if we get Counterspell, and talked to people irl who agree. It's not going to be uncommon.
I also usually play Surgical over RiP, so it won't be a problem with my SB plans. Plus the difference between 3 and 4 Counterspells post board won't likely be an issue -- I often board down on counters anyways.
Knot isn't suddenly uplayable when Counterspell is legal - it's just as good as it used to be and most happen to play 2 so it should be fine to play a copy against the field.
If you get blown out in a counter war in the mirror because they play a niche card that 99% acts the same but happens to dodge the Snare you thought would win you the battle, then you may change your tune.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
Again, I would give you constructive criticism, but I don't really have any -- this list seems perfectly reasonable. I guess my only complaint would be that maybe you should cut the GQ since you're playing an Absorb?
Maybe play a 2nd Sphere instead of the 2nd Purge, since BGx brings in Nissa?
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.