And I would run the 4th seachrome before the 1st prairie stream haha. Early game its a tundra and late game its the same as colonnade in a deck with an average cmc of what, 2?
In the long run I'm sure the UW miracles lists floating aren't that good, the lack of brainstorm is obviously a huge downside. That said its something fun to try before returning to the land of traditional UW. That said setting up terminus with cards like telling time and serum visions in the early turns isn't actually that hard.
Is a UW Miracles deck really still in need of 4 colonnades?
They are great, but still the most clunky part of the mana base. With Jace, more snapcasters and the angels the deck packs certainly more finisher than the typical UW control of last week.
Yeah that is certainly possible, maybe two seachrome coasts or glacial fortresses
Yeah it really depends on who is casting, like when todd stevens was on I wasn't that much of a fan but the other games seemed pretty good.
For those curious here's the VOD at the time the UW Miracles list started playing. I'm also linking the lists from these two teams since one of them has a slightly altered version of our traditional list with 2 Jaces, and the miracles list played in this video.
Yeah I think that's why leaning a little harder on wall of omens may be the way to go, being able to blank hallow one's for a turn or just block bbe if it doesn't hit removal sounds solid. I'm totally in on the settle plan, apart from diversifying sweepers in the face of humans, 4x path and 4x field of ruin means chugging through basics is already a breeze.
Side note, anyone watch the modern super league last night? UW Miracles doing serious work.
IMO drop souls/godless shrine and a mystic gate. You'll have to be a little more specific on budget but I'm just assuming Snapcaster/colonnade are out although the more of those the better. Jace AoT is still a decent option as a walker and I'd drop gideon ally for another gideon of the trials, going up a search for azcanta would be ideal as well but again depends on the ton of money clause. Wall of omens are super good with gideon of the trials so I'd highly recommend going up to two gideon of the trials and 2+ walls. Browse around the past few pages here and there are plenty of lists that should give you an idea of where to take your list.
Personally I try to stay away from singleton cards as much as possible, though a single settle is totally fine here and pretty sweet.
Cards to pick up as budget allows
Colonnade -> Snapcaster -> Search for Azcanta -> Jace, The Bank Breaker.
I've got a pair of lists here that I'm going to be starting out the new world with; our traditional UW deck and some spice that's likely bad but was a blast to play.
Pretty straight forward retool from what we're all used to seeing; cut the Gideon Jura's, and a cryptic command to get the deck a little lower to the ground. A theme of mine in these lists is the addition of spell snare and condemn to help deal with early pressure as we all know that's whats coming for the next few weeks.
A third Jace, the Mind Sculptor may be wanted in this list but as I only have two currently this is where I'm going to be for the next 8 weeks at least.
I played SaffronOlive's UW miracles list at modern monday last night and really enjoyed myself while going 2-1-1. This is where I'm going to start even though I still expect the deck to have a hard time with aggro unless a lot of the sideboard is dedicated to it. I'm starting with cutting the remands, search for azcanta and obviously riverwise augur (thank you for your service). Doing this gets us more "actual" counter spells in Logic Knot and Mana Leak and Spell Snare. I also put in more removal in Detention Sphere's and condemn to help deal with aggro and random cards we aren't countering since there isn't a large number of counterspells.
I'm not 100% on the 22 lands, I think I'd like 23 but the deck has a ton of cantrip effects so keeping a two land hand isn't that scary. Vendilion Clique is something I'd like to try as a two of as well, though I'm not sure where to make cuts until getting some reps in.
I'm not 100% on cutting snares entirely. The two archetypes we're expecting to see increase of play are fast combo and aggro which makes snares better positioned since these decks also prey on big mana. 2-2 split of walls/snares could be could or playing condemns and dropping the walls may be good, I've always been super medium towards wall so I may just be trying to justify not playing them.
This whole sky is falling notion is baffling to me, yup JTMS is bonkers, yup he's going to be expensive for the near future, he'll even warp the format in the next few weeks.
Will the meta adapt? Of course.
Can people jam 4 Jace and auto win? Likely impossible.
Are lists bad with 2 or less points? Horrendously so.
This card just helps shore up our medium/good match ups, and is a bit of a liability in our weak ones unless we can drag the game out (like a control deck) and get to a comfortable place to slam the big boy. He's still trash against any go wide deck unless we can find a sweeper, gets wrecked by burn spells, and is as weak to the vast amounts of discard that dominates this format. Any control player upset by this unbanning I can only imagine is upset that they won't be able to pick up a few for a "reasonable" price for the next several weeks/months.
In the larger meta this may help spawn decks just on the power of Jace; Bant/Sultai/Esper Control, RUG tempo with BBE and Jace as top end, Miracles (rip brainstorm fish). We're in a wild west of sorts and its much more impactful than most new set releases have been for awhile.
I'm pumped, modern is sweet, time to brew and test!
Jace won't be legal for 2 weeks (after the gps coming up) and will be reprinted 2 weeks after that.
As the dude said, waiting a little while after the reprint is good. Its very likely we'll see a big second wave of printing like we did mm3/unstable/others, which may help keep the prices down further.
If you don't own jaces, you might have a rough couple weeks while a lot of other people have jaces, but it shouldn't be too big of a deal, honestly. A lot of people may be trying to take advantage of the jace hype and play cards/decks good against him, so by not having him you may be inadvertently dodging some hate.
He's legal in paper on 2/19 so a week from now, depending on your local game store modern days though it could be closer to two weeks.
I just traded for cryptics, bought 2 snaps, 2 search for azcantas, 4 spreading, 2 detention sphere, 4 flooded strands, 4 celestials and some other stuff for this deck. Should i continue finishing off the deck with the cheaper plainswalkers and play it until jace becomes cheaper? I was so excited to try this dec. But now im a tad worried. I also wonder if this deck would want 4 jaces. The gideons seem to have more of a board impact. Jtms seems to be great against uninteract non aggro decks but that currently doesnt seem to be the meta. Also could 1 or 2 be ok? Thanks for any thoughts
The expensive pieces you listed are going to be used in ANY UWx control deck you want to try so there is no lost money there, and a lot of the spells that alter decks are pretty cheap, just the core pieces are pricey. I can't imagine any deck other than some miracles brew would want 4 JTMS, I think in the current iteration of UW we would want 2 since we still have cryptics, verdicts to fight for the 4 mana slot.
As far as fighting against Jace I'd look at increasing negate numbers as well as d-sphere to compensate for other control decks playing our new overlord. Pithing Needle in the sideboard would be straight gas if you're not willing/able to shell out for JTMS. Jace is also pretty weak to the gideon walkers that see play in UW lists so haveing Gideon of the trials and Gideon Ally I'd put those in and just beat down on JTMS while also affecting the board against aggro decks trying to prey on people.
If you don't own JTMS right now, DO NOT BUY until after its reprinted in A25 and honestly even a month after the reprint. If you look at any of the maters sets price histories the major cards like Noble Hierarch, Fetchlands, Tarmogoyf, etc.. drop over the course of a month or two til they bottom out, then slowly creep back up.
Now I wish I got a second one when they were cheap(-ish) after Eternal Masters came out.
Or how many do we run? A full playset?
I think 2 is actually a pretty safe bet, maybe 3. The better question is do we consider playing miracles now?
Miracles is super interesting but it will still suffer from the same issue the current list has which is getting terminus to miracle in the first few turns. Not having actual brainstorm makes me think it'll still be just a fun deck from time to time but I'd love to be proved wrong.
I'm gonna start with 2 JTMS since that's is what I have and see how my local meta is adapting before committing to a third after A25 is released. My question is if red gets more attractive to splash for lightning bolt or if another d-sphere is where we want to be in the sideboard do help with the increase in walkers.
Actually, i'm not so excited. I was 50$ short from completing my uw list and start attending local fnms with it. God knows how much i have to spend now for an updated list. Thinking of selling everything back.
Dude(ette) its fnm, play what you have and go have a good time! You're not spending $800 to build a modern deck to go win $20 once a week, you're spending that to go have a blast of a time with your fellow nerds. play Jace, AoT and sling some spells. Just play what you have and work up to them overtime, who knows, they may re-ban it in a few months if it just starts dominating too hard.
I'm not saying that Restore Balance isn't a powerful card, but the default strategy of people playing the card tend to make their deck worse to make this card better. Playing 2-3 copies of Tolaria West seems pretty bad to me, I tested one copy to act as a 5th Ancestral Vision and most times I drew them it felt bad, and even worse if it managed to get in my opener. You also want more lands in a Restore balance build to shore up the times you lose a few lands, and you can't rely on As Foretold to be your mana base since enchantment hate isn't hard to find. I'd say 4 As Foretold is overkill, I play 3 and sometimes I end up with 2 on board which eventually becomes overkill, playing 4 copies with no way to get rid of them besides hoping to scry them away seems rough and leads to some dead draws.
My last point isn't necessarily about Restore Balance but singleton cards in general, why would people want to run a singleton unless it is so back breakingly powerful it wins the game. Elspeth is a great example of a singleton, crazy expensive, incredibly powerful, often wins the game either the turn it comes down or the next. Restore Balance probably has its moments, and hell a turn 3 wrath against some decks is likely the difference between winning and losing, but against those decks you also are losing your hand (affinity, burn, Bushwacker Zoo, etc). But would it be better if it was just another copy of condemn or path? Or another Cryptic Command or Snapcaster? I'm inclined to think it would be.
I should do some actual testing of the card before I completely write it off, it's just looking at restore balance at face value and some napkin math situations I have a hard time convincing myself I should. I hope you and others find success with Restore Balance and if you enjoy the way it plays then all the more power to you and I look forward to seeing more UW builds in general see some sweet results.
-1 As Foretold, -1 Detention Sphere, -1 Wrath Effect, Move Crucible to the sideboard easy 4 slots.
Personally I'm not a fan of Restore Balance in a control build so I'd be cutting that, I haven't tested it at all myself so I'm not the best person to talk shop about that particular card. But spreading seas seems too crucial to pass up.
Why not mainboard the spreading seas? They're fine in most matchups, great in others, and worst they do is draw a card. Then you have 4 slots in your board for better cards.
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In the long run I'm sure the UW miracles lists floating aren't that good, the lack of brainstorm is obviously a huge downside. That said its something fun to try before returning to the land of traditional UW. That said setting up terminus with cards like telling time and serum visions in the early turns isn't actually that hard.
Yeah that is certainly possible, maybe two seachrome coasts or glacial fortresses
For those curious here's the VOD at the time the UW Miracles list started playing. I'm also linking the lists from these two teams since one of them has a slightly altered version of our traditional list with 2 Jaces, and the miracles list played in this video.
You can find all the lists here
Side note, anyone watch the modern super league last night? UW Miracles doing serious work.
Personally I try to stay away from singleton cards as much as possible, though a single settle is totally fine here and pretty sweet.
Cards to pick up as budget allows
Colonnade -> Snapcaster -> Search for Azcanta -> Jace, The Bank Breaker.
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Field of Ruin
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
2 Hallowed Fountain
4 Island
3 Plains
1 Glacial Fortress
2 Cryptic Command
2 Spell Snare
2 Negate
1 Mana Leak
4 Path to Exile
1 Condemn
Sorcery (7)
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Wrath of God
4 Serum Visions
2 Detention Sphere
2 Search for Azcanta
4 Spreading Seas
Creatures (5)
2 Wall of Omens
3 Snapcaster Mage
Planeswalkers (4)
2 Gideon of the Trials
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Pretty straight forward retool from what we're all used to seeing; cut the Gideon Jura's, and a cryptic command to get the deck a little lower to the ground. A theme of mine in these lists is the addition of spell snare and condemn to help deal with early pressure as we all know that's whats coming for the next few weeks.
A third Jace, the Mind Sculptor may be wanted in this list but as I only have two currently this is where I'm going to be for the next 8 weeks at least.
4 Field of Ruin
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
2 Hallowed Fountain
4 Island
2 Plains
2 Logic Knot
4 Path to Exile
4 Telling Time
2 Mana Leak
2 Spell Snare
1 Condemn
4 Opt
4 Snapcaster Mage
Enchantment (2)
2 Detention Sphere
Sorcery (10)
2 Entreat the Angels
4 Terminus
4 Serum Visions
Jace (3)
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
I played SaffronOlive's UW miracles list at modern monday last night and really enjoyed myself while going 2-1-1. This is where I'm going to start even though I still expect the deck to have a hard time with aggro unless a lot of the sideboard is dedicated to it. I'm starting with cutting the remands, search for azcanta and obviously riverwise augur (thank you for your service). Doing this gets us more "actual" counter spells in Logic Knot and Mana Leak and Spell Snare. I also put in more removal in Detention Sphere's and condemn to help deal with aggro and random cards we aren't countering since there isn't a large number of counterspells.
I'm not 100% on the 22 lands, I think I'd like 23 but the deck has a ton of cantrip effects so keeping a two land hand isn't that scary. Vendilion Clique is something I'd like to try as a two of as well, though I'm not sure where to make cuts until getting some reps in.
- Will the meta adapt? Of course.
- Can people jam 4 Jace and auto win? Likely impossible.
- Are lists bad with 2 or less points? Horrendously so.
This card just helps shore up our medium/good match ups, and is a bit of a liability in our weak ones unless we can drag the game out (like a control deck) and get to a comfortable place to slam the big boy. He's still trash against any go wide deck unless we can find a sweeper, gets wrecked by burn spells, and is as weak to the vast amounts of discard that dominates this format. Any control player upset by this unbanning I can only imagine is upset that they won't be able to pick up a few for a "reasonable" price for the next several weeks/months.In the larger meta this may help spawn decks just on the power of Jace; Bant/Sultai/Esper Control, RUG tempo with BBE and Jace as top end, Miracles (rip brainstorm fish). We're in a wild west of sorts and its much more impactful than most new set releases have been for awhile.
I'm pumped, modern is sweet, time to brew and test!
He's legal in paper on 2/19 so a week from now, depending on your local game store modern days though it could be closer to two weeks.
The expensive pieces you listed are going to be used in ANY UWx control deck you want to try so there is no lost money there, and a lot of the spells that alter decks are pretty cheap, just the core pieces are pricey. I can't imagine any deck other than some miracles brew would want 4 JTMS, I think in the current iteration of UW we would want 2 since we still have cryptics, verdicts to fight for the 4 mana slot.
As far as fighting against Jace I'd look at increasing negate numbers as well as d-sphere to compensate for other control decks playing our new overlord. Pithing Needle in the sideboard would be straight gas if you're not willing/able to shell out for JTMS. Jace is also pretty weak to the gideon walkers that see play in UW lists so haveing Gideon of the trials and Gideon Ally I'd put those in and just beat down on JTMS while also affecting the board against aggro decks trying to prey on people.
If you don't own JTMS right now, DO NOT BUY until after its reprinted in A25 and honestly even a month after the reprint. If you look at any of the maters sets price histories the major cards like Noble Hierarch, Fetchlands, Tarmogoyf, etc.. drop over the course of a month or two til they bottom out, then slowly creep back up.
Miracles is super interesting but it will still suffer from the same issue the current list has which is getting terminus to miracle in the first few turns. Not having actual brainstorm makes me think it'll still be just a fun deck from time to time but I'd love to be proved wrong.
I'm gonna start with 2 JTMS since that's is what I have and see how my local meta is adapting before committing to a third after A25 is released. My question is if red gets more attractive to splash for lightning bolt or if another d-sphere is where we want to be in the sideboard do help with the increase in walkers.
Dude(ette) its fnm, play what you have and go have a good time! You're not spending $800 to build a modern deck to go win $20 once a week, you're spending that to go have a blast of a time with your fellow nerds. play Jace, AoT and sling some spells. Just play what you have and work up to them overtime, who knows, they may re-ban it in a few months if it just starts dominating too hard.
I'm not saying that Restore Balance isn't a powerful card, but the default strategy of people playing the card tend to make their deck worse to make this card better. Playing 2-3 copies of Tolaria West seems pretty bad to me, I tested one copy to act as a 5th Ancestral Vision and most times I drew them it felt bad, and even worse if it managed to get in my opener. You also want more lands in a Restore balance build to shore up the times you lose a few lands, and you can't rely on As Foretold to be your mana base since enchantment hate isn't hard to find. I'd say 4 As Foretold is overkill, I play 3 and sometimes I end up with 2 on board which eventually becomes overkill, playing 4 copies with no way to get rid of them besides hoping to scry them away seems rough and leads to some dead draws.
My last point isn't necessarily about Restore Balance but singleton cards in general, why would people want to run a singleton unless it is so back breakingly powerful it wins the game. Elspeth is a great example of a singleton, crazy expensive, incredibly powerful, often wins the game either the turn it comes down or the next. Restore Balance probably has its moments, and hell a turn 3 wrath against some decks is likely the difference between winning and losing, but against those decks you also are losing your hand (affinity, burn, Bushwacker Zoo, etc). But would it be better if it was just another copy of condemn or path? Or another Cryptic Command or Snapcaster? I'm inclined to think it would be.
I should do some actual testing of the card before I completely write it off, it's just looking at restore balance at face value and some napkin math situations I have a hard time convincing myself I should. I hope you and others find success with Restore Balance and if you enjoy the way it plays then all the more power to you and I look forward to seeing more UW builds in general see some sweet results.
Personally I'm not a fan of Restore Balance in a control build so I'd be cutting that, I haven't tested it at all myself so I'm not the best person to talk shop about that particular card. But spreading seas seems too crucial to pass up.