I think Talisman is great. Allows for 22 lands to be played can be played turn 2 keep up path then helps you to cast Turn 3 Seer and Turn 4 Smasher. protection from early removal while playing Bird and blood moon is just extra.
totally agreed, with 4 noble + 2 talisman you always have TKS on turn 3 and you're basically immune to blood moon cause they can't deal with it (not like a bird that take bolt). It's also fetchable on stirring that bird doesn't
Talisman got popular because ben friedman played it in a meta full of rw prison and skred. Now people realize those decks suck so they stopped playing them.
As such, we should stop playing talisman. If you're really worried about blood moon, side in a wastes or enchantment destruction. If you really want to play talisman, play unity instead of progress. Unity is far better against regular decks because the green can be used immediately.
22lands is also not correct based on the math of the deck. We're the only midrange deck to play 6 drops yet we want to run 2 fewer lands than jund?
The real innovation of ben friedman is 4 skyspawner. I've found it to be better than reshaper fairly often.
Talisman of unity let you cast all of yours eldrazi and it's bolt-proof/push-proof. Tron and valakut are favoured with new banning and will be more played = more land hate in sb.
Lately I've been having some issues against Mono-Green Tron. Does anyone have advice for the matchup?
I've been siding in 2c Stony Silence and 3x Stubborn Denial. But I think I'm doing something wrong in execution.
What do you all prioritize with your TKS? Best way to deal with Wurmcoil?
Also, Stony is a nobo with Talisman, and that's been relevant at times. I can't decide if I will keep that configuration or go back to 5 dorks + 23 lands. I guess we will see if Tron continues to rise in light of the bans and Aether Revolt. Unfortunately I think our deck will rise too, which means Blood Moon will remain prevalent.
And talisman shines vs blood moon decks
i don't play stony silence anymore with 3 explosives/2 talisman MB. vs tron i side in only counters (2 denial, 1 negate, 1 stroke).
Path deal easily with wurmcoil, just counter or TKS karn and o'stone
Guys hello, thinking of buying into that deck. What's the best mana base?
There are some lists :
24 lands 4 dorks
23 lands 5 dorks (4 noble + 1 birds)
22 lands 4 dorks 2 rocks (talisman of progress)
Core is :
4 eldrazi temple
4 fetch wg
3-4 cavern
0-1 gq / you can play an utility land in this slot
2 forest
1 plains
2-3 shocklands
3 brushlands
2-3 yavimaya coast
+ 4 noble hierarch
I don't think fatal push is awkward for us. Without revolt it can only kill noble hierarch and with it miss smasher and drowner that are gamebreaker vs black based decks (bgx and grixis).
I've been on that 22-land, 2 talisman, 4 dork train for a bit now. Seems fine. Most of the successful lists recently have been of that set up. Also bec sun and moon is a thing at our lgs, and the talismans are godly when you don't draw the EEs to blow up their moons.
I also play 22 lands, 2 rock and 4 dorks. It's the best configuration for this deck. You can beat blood moon deck, play TKS on turn 3 all game, fetch talisman with stirring when you need it.
But talisman also provide u and w that a waste doesn't. Deck playing blood moon also playing bolt and they kill hierarch. Talisman is a non boltable dork, that you can cast on blood moon (need no color) that permit you to cast all yours threats
I'm testing talisman for two weeks, it really do the job. We always can cast tks on turn 3 with that and hierarch. It help to cast explosives (lists running talisman also running 3 explosives)
Most deck siding land hate vs us, and talisman help to solve this weakness
On paper, Talismans should be great. The thing is, it's pretty much a nonbo with Engineered Explosives as x=2 is our most common configuration. It deals with Plating,Ravager,Steel Overseer,the entire merfolk deck, etc. Maybe side them out against Merfolk?.
Sidenote: Does Gemstone Caverns have a place in this deck? What do you think?.
List that not playing talisman run spellskite that cost 2, same problem...
I'm testing talisman for two weeks, it really do the job. We always can cast tks on turn 3 with that and hierarch. It help to cast explosives (lists running talisman also running 3 explosives)
Most deck siding land hate vs us, and talisman help to solve this weakness
I usually do bring in worship against valakut but it's not good. They still have inevitability if they direct the valakut triggers to your creatures. Worship is best against decks that can't actually mass remove your creatures.
And yes, disdainful stroke is probably for the valakut matchup, specifically for primeval titan. I really don't like disdainful stroke because flashfreeze is probably more useful in other matchups.
Flashfreeze is far superior to disdainful stroke overall. I did a bit of an analysis a few pages back..
I'm going to put a Worship in the SB for my next event. How do you guys usually use it, and when do you board it in. From my understanding, it's pretty good against linear decks that don't have a lot of creature removal. Would you side it in against burn? Might be a bit slow. What about against RG valakut?
All the time i played it against burn they can't deal with it and i won
I think i will bring in vs valakut deck, they have few removal and it slow down them a lot
Anyone having mana flood problems? I recently built this deck and have just been getting destroyed lately. It seems that they answer my first 2-3 threats and then I just draw lands and die. I'd chalk it up to bad luck or poor shuffling but I haven't had a problem till I started playing this deck. I have a stock list with 2x main Dismember, 1x Birds, 24 land. I literally died to a Melira attacking me for 5 turns while I drew land after land. Even my ancient stirrings have been awful. It seems that if I can get a LEAST a T3 TKS into T4 Smasher, I tend to win those games but it's been rough lately. I even aggressively mulligan for a temple or mana dork.
I even watch videos and watch other people just get flooded. Anyone else having these problems? With 5x mana forks and ancient stirrings, maybe dropping to 22/23 land might be good.
The 4 bant eldrazi lists that made top 64 at gp dallas run 24 lands/4 dorks OR 23 lands/5 dorks (2 list of each) so 24 lands / 5 dorks seems a bit more
Guys what are your thoughts on the number of drowner of hope to play? I currently play 4 but i see a lot of lists that play 3. I think it's because multiple drowner in opening hand are pretty bad, but it's our best topdeck. If you play 3, what card replace the 4th slot?
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Drop EE and wipe their board
totally agreed, with 4 noble + 2 talisman you always have TKS on turn 3 and you're basically immune to blood moon cause they can't deal with it (not like a bird that take bolt). It's also fetchable on stirring that bird doesn't
Talisman of unity let you cast all of yours eldrazi and it's bolt-proof/push-proof. Tron and valakut are favoured with new banning and will be more played = more land hate in sb.
And talisman shines vs blood moon decks
i don't play stony silence anymore with 3 explosives/2 talisman MB. vs tron i side in only counters (2 denial, 1 negate, 1 stroke).
Path deal easily with wurmcoil, just counter or TKS karn and o'stone
There are some lists :
24 lands 4 dorks
23 lands 5 dorks (4 noble + 1 birds)
22 lands 4 dorks 2 rocks (talisman of progress)
Core is :
4 eldrazi temple
4 fetch wg
3-4 cavern
0-1 gq / you can play an utility land in this slot
2 forest
1 plains
2-3 shocklands
3 brushlands
2-3 yavimaya coast
+ 4 noble hierarch
I don't think fatal push is awkward for us. Without revolt it can only kill noble hierarch and with it miss smasher and drowner that are gamebreaker vs black based decks (bgx and grixis).
I also play 22 lands, 2 rock and 4 dorks. It's the best configuration for this deck. You can beat blood moon deck, play TKS on turn 3 all game, fetch talisman with stirring when you need it.
List that not playing talisman run spellskite that cost 2, same problem...
Most deck siding land hate vs us, and talisman help to solve this weakness
But flashfreeze doesn't counter karn, wurmcoil...
All the time i played it against burn they can't deal with it and i won
I think i will bring in vs valakut deck, they have few removal and it slow down them a lot
The 4 bant eldrazi lists that made top 64 at gp dallas run 24 lands/4 dorks OR 23 lands/5 dorks (2 list of each) so 24 lands / 5 dorks seems a bit more
Guys what are your thoughts on the number of drowner of hope to play? I currently play 4 but i see a lot of lists that play 3. I think it's because multiple drowner in opening hand are pretty bad, but it's our best topdeck. If you play 3, what card replace the 4th slot?