I have encountered a new terrible match up for us Bant Eldrazi fans. I played 7 games last night against Jund Rabblemaster with Moon in the sideboard, and lost every single game. All 7 games we played happened to be mainboard although I feel worse post board. Jund list for reference. https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/modern-jund-40784#paper
I am totally lost as to how to sideboard for the match up. At a point in time, I felt favored over Jund. Rest in peace and Engineered Explosives on 2 usually put us far enough ahead. (also good on 3 if you have time to cast it, which i find i don't as Rabblemaster is very fast). In this version, rest in peace feels questionable (would not bring in all 3) worship feels bad as they have over 9000 removal spells, and discard. counter spells seem bad agaisnt discard. blessed alliance seems mediocre. leylines seem good, although I find Jund players usually board out inquisition, and for it to be great it has to be in opening hand. Also, i was trying to move away from leyline.
my list runs
23 lands no utility land.
4 of every eldrazi (4 skyspawner, no reshaper)
3 Engineered Explosives.
my current sideboard has 4 flex spots.
I'm for the most part happy with the following
3 rest in peace
2 stony silence
1 grafdigger's cage
2 stubborn denial
1 disdainful stroke
1 flash freeze
1 natural state
my other 4 were
1 worship (I was never all that happy with this card)
1 blessed alliance
grafdigger cage #2
after losing so terribly, I put the following in.
2 leyline of sanctity
1 thragtusk (recently added back to the deck after losing all those games)
1 blessed alliance
any other cards i could add to the sideboard thats good for this match up and is decent elsewhere?
I considered 6 mana elspeth for the first time in a long time, but it likely wouldnt be castable due to Blood Moon.
I too, did well this weekend in a team trios event. I split for first out of 14 other teams.
My match ups were as follows:
Match 1: Bant Knightfall Combo: I won my match up 2-0. my teammates lost the legacy and standard portion, so we lost the match.
Match 2: jeskai control: win 2-0 teammates also won there match ups giving us the win
Match 3: Esper shadow... four color shadow?: win 1-0-2. (weird way to win the match up, I know) Game 1: I saw a swamp, thoughtseize and and steam vents. he stumbled on land and I smashed him before seeing any other cards. based on what I saw, I took out two engineered explosives and put in two stubborn denials. Game 2: he went wide with lingering souls and sadness resolved within me after realizing he was on a death shadow variant. Game 3: I put Engineered Explosives back in my deck. went to time and I unquestionably would of won with one more turn. my match ended in a draw, the legacy portion of our team ended in a draw, and our standard player won his match up giving us the match win.
Match 4: Lanturn Control (apparently against a really famous guy who has won a pro tour...Tom Martell) Game 1: I lost as expected. Game 2: I beat him down Game 3: I didn't realize that tezzerat made permanent 5/5's. I thought it was only until end of turn. I had leyline on board so he wasn't able to just kill me with tezzerat's minus ability. He beat me up with a 5/5 Codex Shreder, and a 5/5 mishra's Bauble, and I gotta say, it was a first. I lost my match up 1-2. my team mates won their portion giving us the win.
Match 5: split into top 4, avoided playing Jund (probably could of won my match up.)
first round of top 4: Lost my match up 0-2 to grixus shadow. (favored match up, i know. sometimes variance just gets you) Team mates won their portion giving us yet another win.
Finals: we split, went home early. no idea what my modern opponent was on.
my final record was 2-1-2...if i count my draw as a win(as it would of been with one more turn, my record would of been 3-2. Not all that great.
I am currently looking to replace my Leyline of Sanctitys from my sideboard. I originally liked them because they are good against storm, burn, lanturn, and valakut. I really dislike the variance though. It makes Mulligan decisions really difficult. they are great in the opening hand, but if i don't have it in my exact opening 7, I usually don't want to see them. looking for replacements. Open for suggustions. the link below is my current list.
Also, I was very displeased with stony silence today and found myself questioning its importance in my sideboard. Often times, stony silence seems to hurt me in match ups where I need it. My primary way to destroy problematic artifacts and enchantments is engineered explosives. sometimes if i stony silence a Lanturn player, I can't engineered explosives and I have to lean back on my 1 of natural state to destroy bridge, and a second bridge is game over. same with ad nausium. If i stony silence, I cant engineered explosives their Pherexian Unlife. I may just be stuck in result orientated thinking though.
what does this community think? what are good replacements for Leyline of Sanctity in my list? and how important is stony silence for us when we are already favored against affinity (I am on 4 skyspawner, 3 EE mainboard.) see link above
Side note: I'm fairly happy with my mainboard as of now. (really been liking the 1 of Rhonas.) the changes I'm looking to make are only involving the sideboard. Also, I am willing to go back to 2 Rest in Peace. just trying to find the right balance so I don't auto lose to storm.... and valakut,)
Oh wow. I have never realized that spell queller is a must ability. That's awesome you can lock there own spells. Question on that interaction though. If they spell quelled your Ancient Stirrings, and then you flicker the queller, and try and cast the Stirrings, can they just quell it again? I haven't had that interaction come up before. So in order for you to be able to lock there own spell under queller, I need to flicker spell queller when they cast a spell, and then not cast my previously exiled spell?
This is true, I could of assigned overly lethal damage, assuming my opponent did in fact block. As a death shadow player, they could of also very happily taken the damage to have an 11/11 death shadow. And then I lose to temur battle rage. It felt safer to hold back and stall until reinforcements (Drowners) arrived.
I've never ran the basic waste before. I have however, ran the basic island and was quite fond of it. I have since made it a second basic forest because that was around the same time I started playing a single bird of paradise in my list. You think waste is better than a basic island?
And ya, the talisman it definitely awkward. It is not one of my favorite cards in my list.
I could get behind the idea of big Thalia. Seems great when on the play.
Edited to include an update of tonight's modern event.
Final record was 3-0 split for 2nd and 3rd (somebody on infect went 4-0, which I have found to be a decently favorable match up for us, or so my current record against him suggests that)
Match 1: Storm Game 1: My opponent has notoriously been playing Scapeshift for several months. I mulliganed to 5 because my hand wasn't good enough to beat Scapeshift. My 5 card hand was pretty poor as well, but I didn't want to go to 4. To my surprise, I see he is on Storm. I lose on turn 3, as per protocol. Game 2: I keep an opening hand with Leyline. I get fast pressure on opponent with Thought-Knot seer, and smasher. He is around 10 life with 9 damage presented on my board, and he scoops after realizing he didn't have a way to win as he sideboarded out empty the warrens. (and I guess he doesn't play echoing truth)...to be fair, he is pretty new to playing storm. Game 3: I mulligan to 6, and I scry. my scry is leyline. I disappointingly ship it to the bottom. he gets stuck on 1 land for way to long. I thought knot him and see a bunch of rituals and a blood moon. I strip him of the blood moon, and he doesn't draw his second land until far too late.
Match 2: Death Shadow Game 1: Nothing notable really happened. I win first game Game 2: I land a turn 2 Rest in Peace and slowly start hitting my land drops. the game ends up in a really weird spot because I have thought knot and smasher on board agaisnt his snapcaster and death shadow. he was at 11 life. I have an opportunity to put him to 2 if I swing, but then i make his death shadow angry. (also he could block my smasher with death shadow, and because trample damage, his shadow would live.) the game was stalled out for a few turns, until I drew a ancient stirrings to find a drowner of hope. even after casting the drowner of hope, things looked dicey if i attacked. I had to wait an additional turn to attack so my drowner of hope could swing as well. my next draw step was a second drowner of hope and it sealed the deal.
Match 3: Blue Eldrazi (cryptic commands, walking ballistas, thought knots, reshapers, smashers, skyspawners, drowners. (spreading seas in the side) Seemed like a really cool deck. guy went 3-1. (his only loss was to me) game 1: I am a bit confused as to what I am playing against. he wins with a drowner of hope (i'm so unfamiliar to that card being used against me) Game 2: He gets stuck on a single island and an eldrazi temple. he casts a reshaper and i gladly let him attack me as i do not want the reshaper drawing him a land. he eventually cant keep up with my threats after struggling on land for a few turns. Game 3: Most notable interaction in this game was when I resolved a thought knot seer, seeing his hand of cryptic, thought knot, smasher and drowner. I took his thought knot as it was his most impactful card at the time. he untapped, played a land and passed the turn (he could of played smasher, but chose to leave cryptic up instead. I had cavern of souls in hand and the ability to play smasher, but didn't want to play into the cryptic. I go straight to combat and attack with my thought knot seer. he takes the damage and at my end step, attempts to draw a card and bounce my thought knot seer. I brought in one of my Stubborn denials and it showed up at the right time. I counter cryptic, which was back breaking for him. Had it resolved, he would of drawn off cryptic, drawn off thought knot leaving, and drawn for turn, and undoubtedly played drowner of hope. He untaps and doesnt draw the 6th land to play the Drowner of hope.
Match 4 (Jund- with 3 blood moon sideboard. and rabblemaster---unsure if mainboard or sideboard.
We split, but played it out for glory.
I won game 1, but lost games 2 and 3.
the 3rd game could have gone a bit different, but i fetched for a basic forest in fear of blood moon, and my hand needed blue which I never drew.
I totally agree with you that batterskull is too slow in the burn match up. I felt that Thragtusk was always a turn too late against burn, and Thragtusk s life gain happens when it enters the battlefield. With batterskull, I'd have to have an entire additional untap phase before it pays off. It still seems like I should bring it in against them. Not bringing in cards that say "lifelink" in the burn match up just feels wrong. Leylines can buy me time if I have it opening hand.
You are right in saying that a lot of decks have answers to batterskull such as kolaghan's command and cermoniuos rejection. Perhaps it's not the best sideboard tech. In my local meta, there is consostantly a green red ponza, jund with blood moons in the side, and a red white blood moon chalice deck. I really don't enjoy losing to blood moon. Walking ballista seems great in its ability to be casted through the moon, but seems poor in the matchups I just mentioned. Maybe my best solution is to go back to the two of talisman of progress mainboard. When I tried that before, blood moon was laughably bad against me.
The dessert land seems like it could possibly have potential and it's nice the land itself can tap for green. Let us know how it performs.
Sorry to hear you scrubbed out of your RPTQ. Of all things, double Blood Moon. I definitely understand the appeal to Rec Sage, but I think its probably a good idea to switch back natural state, or natures claim. I do however, think that making the slight change to your sideboard hardly makes you more resilient to blood moon. I suppose its all about just making the bad match ups less bad.
I am going to try a single Batterskull in my sideboard and see how it feels as my resilient threat. Seems great against blood moon decks as well. I've never really tried the card as of yet. I never wanted to give opponents extra incentive to play stony silence against me. Abzan players shutting off my EE and Batterskull seems relevant. Also, it makes Burn players almost guaranteed to have a target with destructive rivalry with 3 Leylines and a Batterskull.
Hopefully most burn players will assume I'm on the single worship plan and won't find it worth bringing in the Destructive Rivalry's.
I do not follow Willy Edel on twitter, but I do not like Magus of the Tabernacle to help against the counters company deck. By the time we can cast the card that is supposed to help us against the difficult match up, they could have already combo'd. Seems like a really bad card for us, as it would constantly tax our mana as well. I would say the card is complete nonsense for us. Hopefully in your testing, you will be able to report back some success with it, but it seems real bad to me
Even though E-Tron players have been cutting things like Main board relic and mindstone, I still think stony silence has a place in our deck against E-Tron. The way that Eldrazi Tron beats us is by going bigger than us. Stony silence slows them down significantly by turning off their ability to tutor their tron lands as well as cavern of souls which can be relevant if you bring in disdainful strokes from the sideboard. Shutting off the Walking Ballista makes it so they cant manipulate combat, and an unchecked Basilisk Collar can be too much of a tempo swing to recover from. I have always brought it in against them both on the play and on the draw. I understand whyjesse's concern to not bring them in on the draw (i still bring them in) in that they can just run you over before you get off the ground. Id say the decision comes down to what cards you saw game one (Mindstones?) and player preference.
Pokemontrainer, I think the Sideboard plan you mentioned above for E-Tron is very reasonable. I too,have noticed that the more experienced players leave in chalice against us. Stony Silence is to E-tron, as Chalice is to Bant Eldrazi. I like leaving in 1 EE against them to hedge against it. Especially because you bring in Rec Sage. It provides you two ways to turn on your removal, tutor, and ramp back on in the event they chalice on 1.
Also a decent amount of Bant Eldrazi players play 2 main board EE and one in the Side. It seems to me like you like to hedge against auto losing to counter company decks similar to how I like to hedge against blood moon decks. (I play the Bird and 1 of talisman). You seem quite fond of dismember as of now, so I liked your idea of going down to 2 stony silence and an EE in the side. that way you can play both your dismembers and show all the Devoted druids who is boss.
I have never done a team unified event before, but I have read that no two decks on a team can contain the same card. You already mentioned you are anticipating a lot of affinity because of this. Based on my recent regional event, I can tell you there were a lot of U/G Merfolk in the room. I only had to play against the Humans deck 1 time, but it still seems very popular. Both of these decks seem like choices people might gravitate to for the team unified event because they play cards that are almost exclusive to their own deck. (Yes, both decks run Aether Vial, but you know what I mean)
As I write this, it seems you have already been convinced to run a 3rd EE. I support the decision.
As for your sideboard, It seems solid. I have in the past, not enjoyed two disdainful strokes because it often feels narrow. I'm not a big fan of the card against E-Tron because of Cavern of Souls. Against any variant of control, it can usually only hit cryptic command. I have been liking a 1 of Flashfreeze,(also narrow) because it still hits Titanshifts payoff cards, and has utility in match ups like Burn, Ponza, and Counter company decks. But seeing as you are not running the stubborn denials anymore and you are running a 3rd Cage, I could see 2 disdainful stroke being better.
In regards to your choice of enchantment/artifact removal, I Have gone back and forth on Natural state and Reclamation Sage. In general, I would say Natural state has treated me better. 1 mana instant speed has felt much better than 3 mana "sorcery" speed. You do sacrifice the option to "live the dream" and flicker Rec Sage, but in all honesty, that has been such an infrequent thing to happen to me.
I also ran 3 Stony Silence at my recent regional top 8 finish, but I feel like it's a serious consideration to drop down to 2.(I recognize you have had 3 in your board for a long time) You mentioned you only bring in 2 against E-Tron, and we are pretty favored against affinity. Even more so now that you are on the 3 mainboard EE. Other match ups where you would want all three include regular tron(not very popular in my experiance), lanturn (Stony Silence can backfire sometimes as EE is often the primary way to destroy ensnaring bridge, and Ad Nauseam.
Planeswalker wise, I like your spicy tech for grindy match ups. I myself have wanted to try Nissa, Steward of Elements, but have been unable to do so in my current Blood Moon meta. My dissatisfaction of scooping to Blood Moon is why I ran a 1 of Talisman of Progress mainboard.
Oh ya, the U/R Moon guy had me scared all three games. It is super uncomfortable to play against blood moon decks. My hand really came together 2 of the 3 games though.
Living end is for sure a bad match up for us. It's Rest In Peace or game over. I'm surprised to hear you had to play it twice. And Goyro Vengeance can be tough as well. You placed well for having being paired up against several bad match ups.
In the future, I think I will adjust my sideboard down to two leylines. I really like the card because it patches 3 very popular bad match ups of ours. (Burn, valakut, and storm) However, with 3 in my list, I almost feel more obligated to aggressively mulligan for it. In the deciding game for top 8, I was playing against burn, and boarded all of them in. I didn't see a single one, but I was concerned that I would draw multiple copies when it was too late.
Same with Stony Silence. I think I will drop that down to 2 copies as well. I already feel favored against affinity. And the other decks I want it in are lanturn, regular tron, eldrazi tron, and ad nausum. 3 out of 4 of those are not all that popular.
What that means for me is I have a potential two open spots to put into my sideboard. A bit unsure what I plan to do as of now, but cards I am considering include a 3rd stubborn denial, a 3rd Rest In Peace, blessed alliance, rhonas, nissa, steward of elements, a 2nd natural state, ethersworn canonist, and runed halo. There is also the option to hard commit to the leylines and put 4 in the sideboard.
I scouted out another bant eldrazi player at the tournament to talk to him. Was that you?
The guy I talked to played 3 skyspawner and 3 matter reshaper. 2 ceremonious rejection in the side.
I also watched a player call a judge over when you casted a skyspawner through a cavern that you apparently (according to the other player) didnt name a creature type when you played it?
I didn't realize there was another bant eldrazi player with such a high record.
Also, your matchups seemed more difficult than mine. I might not have made it past the living end decks. I only had two Rest In Peace in my sideboard, and I contemplate back and forth about 2 or 3
I went to SCG Regionals yesterday in San Diego, and there were a total of 161 players. I made top 8 and lost in the quarter finals to Abzan (really disappointing loss, as I feel very favored in the match up). my final standing in the event was 6th place.
My match ups were as follows.
Match 1: Esper control. Win
Match 2: U/B Scarab God Jank? Win
Match 3: U/G Merfolk Lose
Match 4: Humans Win
Match 5: Jeskai Control Win
Match 6: U/G Merfolk Win
Match 7: U/R Moon Breach Win
Match 8: Burn Win (No leylines Showed up games 2 and 3)
Top 8 Decks
Bant Eldrazi (myself) (seat number 2)
U/G Merfolk (Top Seat)
Mono White Hate Bears
Abzan Counter Combo
And yes, 3 EE in the main feels more important now with Humans and U/G Merfolk on the rise.
I can understand 3 Rest In Peace being too many (and my frustration at Storm has me contemplating a 3rd) but I think 2 RIP is totally reasonable. I don't like leaning on cage because it stops the graveyard differently than Rest In Peace and often times when I want to attack the graveyard, exiling the cards seems super relevant. Whyjesse you suggested a relic instead. Is that because you value the card draw from relic, or the fact that it is a 1 drop, or that it can be found off of ancient Stirrings? I guess that's a lot of reasons to run a relic instead.(seems like it can conflict with your chalice though) I like how when I slam Rest In Peace, that's it. I don't have to think about the appropriate time to blow it up to avoid losing the game. Rest In Peace feels less negotiable than some of the other graveyard hate. Rest In Peace does the work when it enters the battlefield.
Anyway. I did have one more question about leyline of sanctity. If I change my sideboard to include a 3rd, what match ups would you bring them in against?
Burn, scapeshift, and storm for sure.
But what about abzan, jund, and death shadow. Seems great if I have it in my opening hand as it stops thoughtsieze, lily, and Inquisition, but if it's not in my opening 7, the card to me seems terrible. They thought seize my hand away and then I top deck leylines, when I need threats.
What do you all think? Only board them in against burn, scapeshift, and storm?
I'm not ready to jump to the chalice plan yet, so i'm sticking with the counter spells.
I have two open spots in my sideboard as of now, and i'm looking to make my Valakut and Storm match up better. I'm leaning towards adding a 3rd Rest in Peace and a 2nd Flashfreeze. The problem is that I feel Flashfreeze is pretty narrow, and I'm unsure if I can justify playing a second one. (Its great against Burn, counters company, Green White Value Town, Elves, possibly Jund, Green Red Ponza, and Valakut. I was also contemplating adding a potential 3rd Leyline of Sanctity, as it prevents Valakut from killing me. In the storm match up, It prevents Grapeshot from killing me and prevents the Storm player from casting Gifts Ungiven. Leyline also helps in burn, and makes it so burn players aren't allowed to cast Searing Blaze.
What is this communities opinion on Leyline of Sanctity in our sideboard? Should I be playing more, or perhaps none? Two is a bit of an awkward number to be playing. Decks usually run 3-4, or none.