All I got to say is thank goodness they didn't ban temple! Now I can keep building this guy up along with my dredge deck. It's basically my BW tokens deck merged with my eldrazi deck + a few choice pieces.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Sticking with BW since I feel it's the most that it's the most versatile version that doesn't rely on a magical christmas land like the others and it's still resilient if the b word happens. But I think they have the right idea in abandoning the reliance on exiling. So, I tried to mix the best of both worlds.
I feel like this is more of a "fair" deck than the other flavors while still having the explosiveness of the other variants. I've found that I don't need to mulligan aggressively to play a game of magic but that perfect hand of eyes, mimics, endless and smashers is still possible if you're lucky but you're not reliant on it. Lingering can take over games and Ulamog and a single Sower are still your back up for a really grindy game. But because all of the more expensive, exile heavy, creatures are cut you're not sitting around doing nothing and can create an army that can go wide early if you need it.
After spending time with the Magic Deckbuilder and scouring TCGplayer, I feel like this is probably the direction I'm going as well. Basically this and the GR builds are the strongest long term, with the GR build suffering from a land base that is horribly out of print. BW can play a good control game and mid range game depending on how it gets built. Not to mention it has access to Bearer of Silence. I kind of want to try using windswept heath and have a few Overgrown Tomb + Godless shrine so we can play World Breaker. It just seems like a better card than Ulamog in many cases.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Anyone thought of taking a page from BW tokens and using Bitterblossom? Having a token come out every turn might help against board wipes, though this is kind of out there.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Well... after the PT results and having only played one FNM with the deck, I've sold the pieces that are used only in this deck. I am sad because I liked the deck, but at least I got some money for my troubles (I bought the Eyes for 5 euros each and sold them for 28 the piece). I sold them because I think something will be banned and I don't play so competitive to wait until then and lose a lot of money...
See you on other threads on this forum
Nothing will likely happen til April but the PT took a lot of the fun out of this deck (because of all the doomsaying that surrounds it). I will be looking to poach on folks who want to buy in for the next few months (while I continue to play it). If I can get a good return on them, I might move to something more stable like Goyfs and Lilis. Til I get those offers though, I am going to keep playing and improving the list.
Honestly, the only part of the deck that looks to be a problem is the eye of ugin at the moment. Everything else is likely safe unless Wizards takes a different approach to solving format issues than we expect. In any case, there's no use worrying over something like that outside of the ban thread, so lets keep on track and focus on how to build a good deck. If someone builds without eye of ugin we probably already know the reason, so no need to press on the issue.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Ok so why don't we jump on the wagon and play mimic? It can be done..cut ulamog the one sower and 2 x maps. Up the eye count cut Sorin for reality smasher and 1 other card for the forth though-knot ?
Could even cut the processing and go Arrgo with hand disruption /// best removal (path) ...
I think that is the safest path to take in the long term. Lowering the top of the curve makes the deck more resilient to changes in the meta and makes it run faster, which might help with some match ups in the mirror. But then a little birdy in the back of my head starts singing "It's starting to look a lot like BW tokens~"... unfortunately that birdy can not magic up a way to make that flow well when spoken...
Private Mod Note
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Soul sisters is kind of easy to deal with. You just use tainted remedy. They may have disenchant, but when that gets up it basically makes their life very painful.
... Vesuva might work as a replacement for eye as well now that I think on it. Going to credit the modern ban thread for that one.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Rebuff the Wicked, Mana tithe, and dawn charm are the three white counter cards I can think of off the top of my head. Not sure how good they are as sideboard items, but they are there.
I'm kind of curious is painter's servant would work in this variant since we actually do pretty well grinding out compared to the other variants so far. If we can't get eldrazi out as fast it doesn't bother us since we got souls and alternatives. All the other decks have is strait eldrazi.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Don't feel like you are getting pushed into a corner just because UR eldrazi had a strong showing. While that deck will show up and probably be a bad match up for BW, the white offshoot has access to a much better sideboard and many more options to grind out with than an all in blitz. I'm kind of wondering about using something like Touch of Moonglove with a souls as a way to kill a creature and hit them in the face, but I'd vastly prefer something that cantrips if it is going to be that situational. Maybe Ready // Willing? I'm mostly trying to think of ways to make lingering souls more efficient.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I'm not liking taplands in this deck, it keeps ruining my turn 1 discard, i think i'll run 0 taplands
I think Bojuka bog can be easily replaced with a non-tap utility land as we got more than enough ways to exile the graveyard of an opponent already in our repertoire. Shizo, Deaths storehouse would be a good one to put in it's place.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Is Languish really the way to go after OGW? I would think it immediately gets replaced by Flaying Tendrils... Languish can kill TKS and Strangler whereas Tendrils just kills Strangler.
Basically what Exatraz stated. Languish is the closest thing we got to a reprint of damnation, with our biggest creatures actually able to survive the languish.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I don't think I've ever had any problems with Elves or merfolk with Bx Eldrazi. In playtesting all I end up doing is running more sweepers like Languish and tides of Sorrow. All my eldrazi that I care about survive these attacks except for Thought-Knot Seer and Wasteland Strangler. Also, elves give my Funeral Charm some easy targets since they are mostly 1 toughness.
Well, I was shooting in the right direction at least.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I don't think I've ever had any problems with Elves or merfolk with Bx Eldrazi. In playtesting all I end up doing is running more sweepers like Languish and tides of Sorrow. All my eldrazi that I care about survive these attacks except for Thought-Knot Seer and Wasteland Strangler. Also, elves give my Funeral Charm some easy targets since they are mostly 1 toughness.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
The problem with splashing more than one additional color is that we run into the consistency problem even with fetch lands in the deck. That and I don't think the value is there yet to make shelling out the extra money for enemy fetch lands worth it for this deck. It has enough tools just from running black and white that it doesn't need anything else.
There's novelty in running a color trifecta with good stuff if you already have the enemy fetches to utilize, though.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Any thoughts on running a single Shizo, Death's storehouse? I know we only got one legendary, but it lets us swing Ulamog right into someone without any way for them to block except if they are running black.
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():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Love it! I think the cards on display give a good picture of what the BW version is all about.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
After spending time with the Magic Deckbuilder and scouring TCGplayer, I feel like this is probably the direction I'm going as well. Basically this and the GR builds are the strongest long term, with the GR build suffering from a land base that is horribly out of print. BW can play a good control game and mid range game depending on how it gets built. Not to mention it has access to Bearer of Silence. I kind of want to try using windswept heath and have a few Overgrown Tomb + Godless shrine so we can play World Breaker. It just seems like a better card than Ulamog in many cases.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Honestly, the only part of the deck that looks to be a problem is the eye of ugin at the moment. Everything else is likely safe unless Wizards takes a different approach to solving format issues than we expect. In any case, there's no use worrying over something like that outside of the ban thread, so lets keep on track and focus on how to build a good deck. If someone builds without eye of ugin we probably already know the reason, so no need to press on the issue.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I think that is the safest path to take in the long term. Lowering the top of the curve makes the deck more resilient to changes in the meta and makes it run faster, which might help with some match ups in the mirror. But then a little birdy in the back of my head starts singing "It's starting to look a lot like BW tokens~"... unfortunately that birdy can not magic up a way to make that flow well when spoken...
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
... Vesuva might work as a replacement for eye as well now that I think on it. Going to credit the modern ban thread for that one.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I'm kind of curious is painter's servant would work in this variant since we actually do pretty well grinding out compared to the other variants so far. If we can't get eldrazi out as fast it doesn't bother us since we got souls and alternatives. All the other decks have is strait eldrazi.
The other part I'm working on is what to replace the Eye of Ugin with if we can no longer use it in the future. My thought was Sea gate Wreckage, cavern of souls, or shrine of the Forsaken Gods.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I think Bojuka bog can be easily replaced with a non-tap utility land as we got more than enough ways to exile the graveyard of an opponent already in our repertoire. Shizo, Deaths storehouse would be a good one to put in it's place.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Basically what Exatraz stated. Languish is the closest thing we got to a reprint of damnation, with our biggest creatures actually able to survive the languish.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Well, I was shooting in the right direction at least.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
There's novelty in running a color trifecta with good stuff if you already have the enemy fetches to utilize, though.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!