And it is that time of year again with the situation in Greece becoming untenable.
Quote from Greece has three weeks to deal with "potentially disastrous" debt, says IMF »
Greece’s embattled government has three weeks to break the deadlock in increasingly difficult talks with creditors or risk the country’s debt crisis resurfacing with renewed vigour.
Faced with the dilemma of agreeing to additional austerity or calling fresh elections, prime minister Alexis Tsipras was weighing his options at the weekend. Fears of further uncertainty in Europe’s weakest member state mounted as the International Monetary Fund (IMF) predicted that Greece’s debt load could become “explosive” by 2030.
“It is critical that a compromise is found,” said Aristides Hatzis, professor of law and economics at the university of Athens, noting that a slew of elections across Europe would only make Greece’s predicament worse.
“If these negotiations are not wrapped up by 20 February [when eurozone finance ministers next meet] we could be looking at potentially disastrous political turmoil, which would bring back the scenario of Grexit with a vengeance.”
Central to the impasse is the enduring argument among lenders over Athens’ ability to achieve fiscal targets once its latest bailout programme expires in 2018. Without legislation of further pension cuts and tax increases, the IMF does not believe it can attain a primary budget surplus of 3.5%. At a meeting of eurozone finance ministers on Thursday, Athens found itself out in the cold with even the normally supportive European commission failing to rally to its defence.
Greece is once again in need of a bailout and the IMF have refused to play ball unless there is some form of debt reduction involved in the deal.
Quote from Greece"s latest financial emergency is both tragic and absurd »
It’s that time of year again. Greece is running out of money. There are violent protests in Athens. Eurozone finance ministers are gathering in Brussels in an “emergency” conclave to decide what to do next.
The International Monetary Fund has already made it clear what it thinks should happen. It says Europe should cut Greece some slack by easing the terms of its bailout agreement and offering a solid dose of debt relief.
Christine Lagarde, the IMF’s managing director, has said that if Germany and its allies in the Eurogroup of finance ministers insist on making unrealistic demands of Greece she will not risk any more of the fund’s money.
So, can someone please explain this to me, because I'm very confused about all of this:
A lot of people in Greece were willing to play bankruptcy chicken, and indeed many are mad that they didn't do just that, because of the austerity measures attached to the bailouts.
What, exactly, are these austerity measures that so many people were willing to go that far to object to?
The Big ones in the last agreement are:
Raising the age that you retire and claim a pension to 67 and reducing it.
Increasing the VAT rate to 23% and removing exemptions.
50Bn Euro of Assets transfered out of direct Greek control into a fund to "contribute to the recapitalisation of the country’s banks."
Whilst none of them seem that onerous on paper in reality they are going to do a lot less than advertised.
The Greek unemployment rate is about 25% for the country and 50% for the "youth", so increasing the age at which you can retire won't do that much for the 1 in 4 who need some kind of support now.
Likewise increasing VAT, people don't have the money to purchase the goods the tax is going to be applied to or will find someway of getting around it.
I would also be very surprised that even if they managed to find that amount of Greek assest they would get close to that value for them if they were privatised.
A couple of Days ago the IMF pretty much stated that the plan agreed to On Sunday is unworkable as Greece still won't be able to pay back the money it owes and is going to be back in a couple of months needing yet another bailout.
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and start slitting throats.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
Is it reasonable to expect Greece to live within their means as a condition of the bailout?
What bailout?
Just taking a look at this. It looks as though most of the money has just gone round in a very big circle. With the ECB sending money to Greece, for them to send most of it straight back to the Foreign banks that helped get them in the mess in the first place.
Whilst there needs to be some blame put on Greece for running up massive debts there is a lot of truth behind the old adage it takes Two to Tango. Greece would not be in this situation if the foreign banks had not been so reckless in lending that vast quantity of money to Greece.
But now the whole heap of cards is in danger of collapsing it appears the banks have managed to sidestep their risks and palm it off to someone else, namely the European Tax payer. And the only only remedy offered to Greece has been to kick them until they fall down and now they have fallen down, hold them there and keep on kicking them.
To quote a comment I read on an article earlier the choice that the Greek people have been given is an immeadiate kick in the balls (yes vote), or sticking 2 fingers up at the ECB and IMF followed by a kick in the balls. After getting kicked for 5 years I can understand the urge to say no more even if it is just a symbolic gesture.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and start slitting throats.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
More at link
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Crafters' Rules Guru
Greece is once again in need of a bailout and the IMF have refused to play ball unless there is some form of debt reduction involved in the deal.
Perhaps this time some one will be sensible and put in place a workable solution that doesn't cripple the country any more.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Crafters' Rules Guru
The Big ones in the last agreement are:
Raising the age that you retire and claim a pension to 67 and reducing it.
Increasing the VAT rate to 23% and removing exemptions.
50Bn Euro of Assets transfered out of direct Greek control into a fund to "contribute to the recapitalisation of the country’s banks."
Whilst none of them seem that onerous on paper in reality they are going to do a lot less than advertised.
The Greek unemployment rate is about 25% for the country and 50% for the "youth", so increasing the age at which you can retire won't do that much for the 1 in 4 who need some kind of support now.
Likewise increasing VAT, people don't have the money to purchase the goods the tax is going to be applied to or will find someway of getting around it.
I would also be very surprised that even if they managed to find that amount of Greek assest they would get close to that value for them if they were privatised.
A couple of Days ago the IMF pretty much stated that the plan agreed to On Sunday is unworkable as Greece still won't be able to pay back the money it owes and is going to be back in a couple of months needing yet another bailout.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Crafters' Rules Guru
What bailout?
Just taking a look at this. It looks as though most of the money has just gone round in a very big circle. With the ECB sending money to Greece, for them to send most of it straight back to the Foreign banks that helped get them in the mess in the first place.
Whilst there needs to be some blame put on Greece for running up massive debts there is a lot of truth behind the old adage it takes Two to Tango. Greece would not be in this situation if the foreign banks had not been so reckless in lending that vast quantity of money to Greece.
But now the whole heap of cards is in danger of collapsing it appears the banks have managed to sidestep their risks and palm it off to someone else, namely the European Tax payer. And the only only remedy offered to Greece has been to kick them until they fall down and now they have fallen down, hold them there and keep on kicking them.
To quote a comment I read on an article earlier the choice that the Greek people have been given is an immeadiate kick in the balls (yes vote), or sticking 2 fingers up at the ECB and IMF followed by a kick in the balls. After getting kicked for 5 years I can understand the urge to say no more even if it is just a symbolic gesture.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Crafters' Rules Guru