I've tested a few games with Eldritch Evolution and I can confirm its stone cold nuts. Just the ability to get any 6 drop off any 4 drop is incredible, and I love that it gives you the ability to go lower CMC if you need.
I sacced a sun Titan just to get clever impersonator with it. I imagine a pretty common line of play will be saccing to get a clone or resolute archangel to pad the life total.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Cubes - The Busted Cube. A fully functional, almost 100% custom cube. The project started out by asking "What if other colors got cards on the power level of Mana Drain,Ancestral Recall, and Time Walk?" Draft and enjoy!
If it's worth anything, I'll vouch for the usefulness of Alchemist's Refuge. It's always been super useful late game, allowing you to flash in spells at the end of the person before you's turn. Like a mini Leyline of Anticipation. Flashing in wraths always feels especially dirty.
If you run the filters (and I do), you've got 3 extra colorless sources that are good in the deck. Some people don't like them though
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Cubes - The Busted Cube. A fully functional, almost 100% custom cube. The project started out by asking "What if other colors got cards on the power level of Mana Drain,Ancestral Recall, and Time Walk?" Draft and enjoy!
I'll try Tragic Arrogance out in place of Supreme Verdict . It seems bad against voltron but that's not something I run across. I like that it punishes decks that are very card type focused (ie enchantress and artifact decks), of which there are many in my meta.
It also doesn't seem to hit us too hard given that we play a variety of permanent types
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Cubes - The Busted Cube. A fully functional, almost 100% custom cube. The project started out by asking "What if other colors got cards on the power level of Mana Drain,Ancestral Recall, and Time Walk?" Draft and enjoy!
I'm interested ZenN - how has Tragic Arrogance worked for you? I run Supreme Verdict in its place but my meta has shifted such that the uncounterability is rarely relevant (although when it is its great). Been thinking of trying Tragic Arrogance in its spot
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Cubes - The Busted Cube. A fully functional, almost 100% custom cube. The project started out by asking "What if other colors got cards on the power level of Mana Drain,Ancestral Recall, and Time Walk?" Draft and enjoy!
Realistically, I'd probably look at swapping out Tezerret the Seeker for her, if I were going to try to slot her in. He's definitely great, but probably 90% of the time I play him he's either just ramp or a 5 mana Birthing Pod tutor. Those are both good things, don't get me wrong, I'm just saying that he's probably the one to get the axe if I want her.
As it stands currently, though, I'm pretty sure that between the two I'd rather have Tezz.
I'd agree that Tezzeret would be a decent swap for testing. He's done wonders for me (tutoring up Oblivion Stone is a personal favorite), but maybe the new Tamiyo can put in work. I like her a lot more in a Rafiq of the Many list.
On another note, how has Ephara, God of the Polis performed for you? I ended up cutting her for Rafiq of the Many, since my meta is pretty light on removal and sword + jenara + rafiq is usually lights out. Ive been debating switching back for some value card draw though
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Cubes - The Busted Cube. A fully functional, almost 100% custom cube. The project started out by asking "What if other colors got cards on the power level of Mana Drain,Ancestral Recall, and Time Walk?" Draft and enjoy!
To be fair, the same could be said for Pact of Negation, since having a panic button to stop combo (if it's prevalent in your meta) is always nice. I've used to help resolve a main phase cyclonic rift to swing for the kill with Jenara. ISBP can also comment on how Pact performed for him - I'm not suggesting a switch in your list, but it's an option for anyone who feels like Voidslime doesn't fit in their meta.
Like I said, I've never extensively run Tooth and Nail in my list so I can't comment on how well it does. Just offhand that would be my first suspect for a cut.
My Cubes - The Busted Cube. A fully functional, almost 100% custom cube. The project started out by asking "What if other colors got cards on the power level of Mana Drain,Ancestral Recall, and Time Walk?" Draft and enjoy!
If you decide to put in Mana Crypt and Tormod's Crypt (depending on how well claws has worked for you) I think a Tolaria West package might be a thing to consider. You can round out the package with Pact of Negation, which has flat out won games for me. On the other hand, running a tap land you'd rather transmute and running Pact might not be your cup of tea, but it's an interesting thought.
Generally speaking, I really dislike Pact of Negation outside of dedicated control or dedicated combo decks. I ran it in here once upon a time, when I was playing a lot more combos, but as I cut back on them it just appealed to me less and less.
Every single time I've put Tolaria West into a deck I've been unhappy with it. It has always felt way, way too clunky.
That's a perfectly fair argument - I was just suggesting it as another option. I find personally that Voidslime rarely does enough, so that is what it replaces.
Interesting that you don't run Gilded Drake, since it's always been an all star for me, but to each his own.
I noticed you mentioned Eldritch Evolution, which I think will definitely find a home in this deck. In terms of cuts, I think Tooth and Nail doesn't quite fit the deck, since it doesn't win on the spot. It's a good value play though. I cut it from my version pretty early, but your willingness to cut depends on your meta and how it's done for you.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Cubes - The Busted Cube. A fully functional, almost 100% custom cube. The project started out by asking "What if other colors got cards on the power level of Mana Drain,Ancestral Recall, and Time Walk?" Draft and enjoy!
I'll vouch for the inclusion of Scavenging Ooze as well. Tutorable GY hate that can also gain some life and block very nicely.
If you decide to put in Mana Crypt and Tormod's Crypt (depending on how well claws has worked for you) I think a Tolaria West package might be a thing to consider. You can round out the package with Pact of Negation, which has flat out won games for me. On the other hand, running a tap land you'd rather transmute and running Pact might not be your cup of tea, but it's an interesting thought.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Cubes - The Busted Cube. A fully functional, almost 100% custom cube. The project started out by asking "What if other colors got cards on the power level of Mana Drain,Ancestral Recall, and Time Walk?" Draft and enjoy!
Call me crazy, but seems like this thread ends up being a veritable shouting match rather than a primer discussion.
I think the artifact lands are a bad idea, as does ISB and Swift. Zen disagrees, and I have doubts about convincing him otherwise. And that's fine. That's his business.
Anyway, what do you guys think about the new artifact that exiles power 5 and above? It avoids most of our creatures and can really hurt big green stompy.deck. Probably not worth it but the idea is interesting.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Cubes - The Busted Cube. A fully functional, almost 100% custom cube. The project started out by asking "What if other colors got cards on the power level of Mana Drain,Ancestral Recall, and Time Walk?" Draft and enjoy!
Heck yeah! I’m super pumped to get a new Jenara primer in the works. ISB’s was fantastic, and I loved seeing the different ideas flow. One problem I always had with ISB’s list (I say this affectionately <3 ) was the lack of combos. Hence I’m extremely excited to see Palinchron and Mirror Entity in this list.
Here’s my list for reference – I think you’ll see some pretty striking similarities. http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/13-08-15-wSI-jenara/. I’ll acknowledge I have a glaring lack of GY hate in my 99, but I rarely run into GY decks anyway.
But of course the differences are what matter the most. I’ll discuss some differences between our decks, and my rationale.
Lands – I have a semi-budget land base. Haven’t quite gotten Tundra or Tropical Island, but haven’t been having too much issue. Very glad to see Boseiju, Who Shelters All in your list, I think not enough people run that card.
However, I don’t see the usefulness of the artifact lands. In my opinion, they’re too much of a liability. Sure, Tezzeret can find them, but I’d almost always rather get Sol Ring. Already have sol ring? Grab a sword and go to town. I think the land use is too narrow, and they’re way to vulnerable to sweepers . How bad is an Austere Command going to hurt when you’re hitting your own lands? I’d run the off color fetches (Polluted Delta, Arid Mesa etc) instead, to give you more shuffle effects for Sylvan and Top.
I’ll also agree with ISB – I don’t think Reliquary Tower warrants a slot. If I have 8+ cards in hand, I’m probably winning with 7 of them regardless. I’ve never had a hand I had trouble discarding.
Also, I’m curious – What do you name with Cavern of Souls? One of the things I love about this list is that not many of our creatures are worth countering – it’s their combined synergy is what kills. I guess angel? Jenara doesn’t get countered much.
Creatures – Like I said, it’s great to see those combo creatures in there. Our differences are (primarily) with the top of your curve
Yavimaya Dryad – I think this card is worse than Farhaven Elf. Sure, she can get duals and give your opponent a land if you’re into that sort of thing, but GG makes me queasy in a hand where I’m using this creature for ramp. What if I need a green source?
Stonecloaker – haven’t tested him. Is he good? He seems kind of mana intensive to me, but I can definitely see the use in the bounce.
Solemn Simulacrum – He just seems so low impact to me. He can’t be skullclamped, rezed from Sun Titan. He makes a nice blocker but he just seems like filler to me.
Duplicant – Removal on a stick is nice, but I think you have enough spot removal already. It’s nice that you can get him from Farhaven Elf, but I’m not sure he’s efficient enough.
Angel of Serenity – I’ve never played with her, but I think there are better options. The double use of removal + GY hate is nice, but 7 mana is a lot to pay for this type of effect.
Sphinx of Uthuun – FoF on a stick is great, no doubt about it. But there’s no way to abuse him, outside of Karmic Guide shenanigans.
Suggestions:
Ixidron – I’d run this over Duplicant. The utility is just so nice, and often I find myself not wanting to kill the commander. Who wants to kill Omnath or Kaalia? Just flip it and leave them stranded. We can also recover from this type of effect much faster.
Consecrated Sphinx – I just don’t think we can avoid running him :/ I think he’s better than Sphinx of Uthuun, because when he’s good, he’s game winning. I’ve never seen a game won off a Sphinx of Uthuun/ Can’t say the same for ol’ Concs.
Stoneforge Mystic – I honestly think 4 targets is enough. I only run 3, and I’m never unhappy to draw him (her?) unless I’m out of targets. The utility is just so good.
Vorinclex – I’d run him over the Angel of Serenity. He’s just so powerful and adds another combo win for Palinchron. Alternatively, he can make Jenara huge and beat face.
Gilded Drake – This card is amazing. Giving them a flying blocker is problematic sometimes, but usually the creature I steal is faaaaarrrr better. I think this definitely needs to be in the list somewhere.
Oracle of Mul Daya – with so many shuffle effects, I’d run this card over Solemn Simulacrum. She gets crazy good with off color fetches, and can ramp a crazy amount. Sometimes she’s bad but I usually get at least 1 land, making her better than Simulacrum in my opinion.
Artifacts: Scrabbling Claws – I’m not an expert on GY removal, since I don’t run any (LOL), but if I were to, I think this is too low impact. I’d much rather run crypt, which can just wreck a GY player. Claws will just delay them a turn at worst.
Lightning Greaves – How has this been working out for you? I used to run it, but I found it unnecessary. Jenara flies low under the radar, and I’ve never found Lightning Greaves to be useful.
Planeswalkers: Jace, the Mind Sculptor – I haven’t tested him, but he just seems like a massive target and not impactful. Great in 1v1, but not in multiplayer.
Tezzeret, the Seeker – Honestly never been a fan. The tutoring is nice, but he’s 5 mana and rarely lasted a turn for me. I respect the inclusion but I just wasn’t impressed when I played him.
Instants:
Love the list. I run Muddle the Mixture over Counterspell. I love a good counterspell, but I love the utility Muddle gives. It fetches Survival, Stoneforge (in my list), Eladamri’s to get any creature, Phantasmal image, and Gilded Drake. Sooooo many good targets.
Sorceries: Tooth and Nail – I don’t see much reason for this to be in the list. What do you normally get with it? Deadeye and Palinchron? That requires that you have an outlet for that infinite mana (Jenara excluding, of course). Whenever I tested this card, I found it just clogged up too many hands for it to be worth it.
Bribery – This card needs to be in the list, in my opinion. It wins games, it’s that good. I can use it as early as T4 to get an early Prophet or use it late game to get a monster.
Time Warp – I run two of these effects (Warp and Aeons for budget reasons). I find that these are great for killing someone with an extra turn with Jenara. Generally, I use them to make sure I can kill the table when I get infinite mana and draw my deck (see below). I can just kill everyone with Jenara by looping the extra turn effects and Witness or Snappy.
With regard to your combos, how do you often use the infinite mana? For some reason whenever I get infinite mana, Jenara never seems to be on the field -_- so I can’t kill anybody. I always use a tutor to get Prime Speaker Zegana and then draw my deck off an arbitrarily big Jenara (be sure to leave yourself a few cards in your deck). I then use extra turn effects to kill everyone!
All in all, great list. I’m super excited to see another Jenara primer (hopefully) and I look forward to the discussions between us all!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Cubes - The Busted Cube. A fully functional, almost 100% custom cube. The project started out by asking "What if other colors got cards on the power level of Mana Drain,Ancestral Recall, and Time Walk?" Draft and enjoy!
I sacced a sun Titan just to get clever impersonator with it. I imagine a pretty common line of play will be saccing to get a clone or resolute archangel to pad the life total.
Regular 450 unpowered cube (with some custom cards) - 450 Unpowered
If you run the filters (and I do), you've got 3 extra colorless sources that are good in the deck. Some people don't like them though
Regular 450 unpowered cube (with some custom cards) - 450 Unpowered
It also doesn't seem to hit us too hard given that we play a variety of permanent types
Regular 450 unpowered cube (with some custom cards) - 450 Unpowered
Regular 450 unpowered cube (with some custom cards) - 450 Unpowered
I'd agree that Tezzeret would be a decent swap for testing. He's done wonders for me (tutoring up Oblivion Stone is a personal favorite), but maybe the new Tamiyo can put in work. I like her a lot more in a Rafiq of the Many list.
On another note, how has Ephara, God of the Polis performed for you? I ended up cutting her for Rafiq of the Many, since my meta is pretty light on removal and sword + jenara + rafiq is usually lights out. Ive been debating switching back for some value card draw though
Regular 450 unpowered cube (with some custom cards) - 450 Unpowered
Like I said, I've never extensively run Tooth and Nail in my list so I can't comment on how well it does. Just offhand that would be my first suspect for a cut.
If you decide to test Tamiyo, Field Researcher, what would be the cut?
Regular 450 unpowered cube (with some custom cards) - 450 Unpowered
That's a perfectly fair argument - I was just suggesting it as another option. I find personally that Voidslime rarely does enough, so that is what it replaces.
Interesting that you don't run Gilded Drake, since it's always been an all star for me, but to each his own.
I noticed you mentioned Eldritch Evolution, which I think will definitely find a home in this deck. In terms of cuts, I think Tooth and Nail doesn't quite fit the deck, since it doesn't win on the spot. It's a good value play though. I cut it from my version pretty early, but your willingness to cut depends on your meta and how it's done for you.
Regular 450 unpowered cube (with some custom cards) - 450 Unpowered
If you decide to put in Mana Crypt and Tormod's Crypt (depending on how well claws has worked for you) I think a Tolaria West package might be a thing to consider. You can round out the package with Pact of Negation, which has flat out won games for me. On the other hand, running a tap land you'd rather transmute and running Pact might not be your cup of tea, but it's an interesting thought.
Regular 450 unpowered cube (with some custom cards) - 450 Unpowered
I think the artifact lands are a bad idea, as does ISB and Swift. Zen disagrees, and I have doubts about convincing him otherwise. And that's fine. That's his business.
Anyway, what do you guys think about the new artifact that exiles power 5 and above? It avoids most of our creatures and can really hurt big green stompy.deck. Probably not worth it but the idea is interesting.
Regular 450 unpowered cube (with some custom cards) - 450 Unpowered
Here’s my list for reference – I think you’ll see some pretty striking similarities. http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/13-08-15-wSI-jenara/. I’ll acknowledge I have a glaring lack of GY hate in my 99, but I rarely run into GY decks anyway.
But of course the differences are what matter the most. I’ll discuss some differences between our decks, and my rationale.
Lands – I have a semi-budget land base. Haven’t quite gotten Tundra or Tropical Island, but haven’t been having too much issue. Very glad to see Boseiju, Who Shelters All in your list, I think not enough people run that card.
However, I don’t see the usefulness of the artifact lands. In my opinion, they’re too much of a liability. Sure, Tezzeret can find them, but I’d almost always rather get Sol Ring. Already have sol ring? Grab a sword and go to town. I think the land use is too narrow, and they’re way to vulnerable to sweepers . How bad is an Austere Command going to hurt when you’re hitting your own lands? I’d run the off color fetches (Polluted Delta, Arid Mesa etc) instead, to give you more shuffle effects for Sylvan and Top.
I’ll also agree with ISB – I don’t think Reliquary Tower warrants a slot. If I have 8+ cards in hand, I’m probably winning with 7 of them regardless. I’ve never had a hand I had trouble discarding.
Also, I’m curious – What do you name with Cavern of Souls? One of the things I love about this list is that not many of our creatures are worth countering – it’s their combined synergy is what kills. I guess angel? Jenara doesn’t get countered much.
Creatures – Like I said, it’s great to see those combo creatures in there. Our differences are (primarily) with the top of your curve
Yavimaya Dryad – I think this card is worse than Farhaven Elf. Sure, she can get duals and give your opponent a land if you’re into that sort of thing, but GG makes me queasy in a hand where I’m using this creature for ramp. What if I need a green source?
Stonecloaker – haven’t tested him. Is he good? He seems kind of mana intensive to me, but I can definitely see the use in the bounce.
Solemn Simulacrum – He just seems so low impact to me. He can’t be skullclamped, rezed from Sun Titan. He makes a nice blocker but he just seems like filler to me.
Duplicant – Removal on a stick is nice, but I think you have enough spot removal already. It’s nice that you can get him from Farhaven Elf, but I’m not sure he’s efficient enough.
Angel of Serenity – I’ve never played with her, but I think there are better options. The double use of removal + GY hate is nice, but 7 mana is a lot to pay for this type of effect.
Sphinx of Uthuun – FoF on a stick is great, no doubt about it. But there’s no way to abuse him, outside of Karmic Guide shenanigans.
Suggestions:
Ixidron – I’d run this over Duplicant. The utility is just so nice, and often I find myself not wanting to kill the commander. Who wants to kill Omnath or Kaalia? Just flip it and leave them stranded. We can also recover from this type of effect much faster.
Consecrated Sphinx – I just don’t think we can avoid running him :/ I think he’s better than Sphinx of Uthuun, because when he’s good, he’s game winning. I’ve never seen a game won off a Sphinx of Uthuun/ Can’t say the same for ol’ Concs.
Stoneforge Mystic – I honestly think 4 targets is enough. I only run 3, and I’m never unhappy to draw him (her?) unless I’m out of targets. The utility is just so good.
Vorinclex – I’d run him over the Angel of Serenity. He’s just so powerful and adds another combo win for Palinchron. Alternatively, he can make Jenara huge and beat face.
Gilded Drake – This card is amazing. Giving them a flying blocker is problematic sometimes, but usually the creature I steal is faaaaarrrr better. I think this definitely needs to be in the list somewhere.
Oracle of Mul Daya – with so many shuffle effects, I’d run this card over Solemn Simulacrum. She gets crazy good with off color fetches, and can ramp a crazy amount. Sometimes she’s bad but I usually get at least 1 land, making her better than Simulacrum in my opinion.
Artifacts:
Scrabbling Claws – I’m not an expert on GY removal, since I don’t run any (LOL), but if I were to, I think this is too low impact. I’d much rather run crypt, which can just wreck a GY player. Claws will just delay them a turn at worst.
Lightning Greaves – How has this been working out for you? I used to run it, but I found it unnecessary. Jenara flies low under the radar, and I’ve never found Lightning Greaves to be useful.
Planeswalkers:
Jace, the Mind Sculptor – I haven’t tested him, but he just seems like a massive target and not impactful. Great in 1v1, but not in multiplayer.
Tezzeret, the Seeker – Honestly never been a fan. The tutoring is nice, but he’s 5 mana and rarely lasted a turn for me. I respect the inclusion but I just wasn’t impressed when I played him.
Instants:
Love the list. I run Muddle the Mixture over Counterspell. I love a good counterspell, but I love the utility Muddle gives. It fetches Survival, Stoneforge (in my list), Eladamri’s to get any creature, Phantasmal image, and Gilded Drake. Sooooo many good targets.
Sorceries:
Tooth and Nail – I don’t see much reason for this to be in the list. What do you normally get with it? Deadeye and Palinchron? That requires that you have an outlet for that infinite mana (Jenara excluding, of course). Whenever I tested this card, I found it just clogged up too many hands for it to be worth it.
Bribery – This card needs to be in the list, in my opinion. It wins games, it’s that good. I can use it as early as T4 to get an early Prophet or use it late game to get a monster.
Time Warp – I run two of these effects (Warp and Aeons for budget reasons). I find that these are great for killing someone with an extra turn with Jenara. Generally, I use them to make sure I can kill the table when I get infinite mana and draw my deck (see below). I can just kill everyone with Jenara by looping the extra turn effects and Witness or Snappy.
With regard to your combos, how do you often use the infinite mana? For some reason whenever I get infinite mana, Jenara never seems to be on the field -_- so I can’t kill anybody. I always use a tutor to get Prime Speaker Zegana and then draw my deck off an arbitrarily big Jenara (be sure to leave yourself a few cards in your deck). I then use extra turn effects to kill everyone!
All in all, great list. I’m super excited to see another Jenara primer (hopefully) and I look forward to the discussions between us all!
Regular 450 unpowered cube (with some custom cards) - 450 Unpowered