You are making one big mistake regarding your assessment regarding Pig God: He is not a creature you want to cheat in, but it is a cheat spell itself while being decent on it's own. This means, that more often than not (as you have already said) using a cheat spell to get it into play is just really bad line (as long as the opp has no mana open and you have the kill basically).
Greetings,
Kathal
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Two possible Pig versions: All-in Pig vs Midrange Pig. All in Pig should be lethal with Griselbrand cause of Fury of the Hordes, but Griselbrand is usually already lethal with it so basically Pig is unnecessary. Emmi + Pig is usually also Lethal, but against flying Blockers where you can repeat it next turn (if you have not cheated Pig in) it sucks, cause with a cheated Pig you do not get the Annihilation trigger, which is the biggest appeal from Emmi.
So All-in Pig looks kinda wonky, cause when you already have a pay off creature which you can cheat it, you should have won already. Pig makes only sense, if you want to use it as a TTB 5-8, which is interesting, especially Post Board when graveyard hate is comming in from the opponent, since you are capable of cutting all the Goryo's while still having enough "cheat" spells.
However, this requires more Pentad Prism, since you have more 5 drops you want to cheat on turn 3 ideally. So a Playset Pentad Prism between the main/SB is a must as some numbers of Gemstone Cavern and SSG to have redundancy. Historically speaking, Pentad Prism was always iffy, cause it was just a bad ramp card, since it could get removed rather easily. So meh.
The Midrange build is kinda interesting, especially combined with LotV, pitching Pig does not harm you, it just slows you down by 2 turns realistically (you will have at least one redraw usually). Pig there is both a value beater (which is usually the biggest beater but flipped TiTi and Shadows) as a cheat spell. What creatures to cheat in that sort of build is an interesting question. The obvious ones, Griselbrand and Emmi are not really that good with it, you would want something like Rakdos the Defiler or Obzedat, Ghost Council to get the max benefits out of it. However, Rakdos sucks as a cheat creature and Obzedat is fine, but you would rather want to play it in a dedicated Midrange shell (like the Esper one, which saw play). Basically, Pig would be Goryo's 5-8 in that deck, which is fine, but not necessary (regarding the Esper shell).
So since Piggy is not that interesting in an all in version (since you always need another creature to actually do something) and decent in the Midrange build (cause of the anti-synergies with most cheat creatures you would want to play in that shell but Obzedat), something in the middle is needed. Basically a shell, where a TTB/Goryo's creature has as big of an influence as an creature cheated in via Piggy. I have ad-hoc no idea which creature this could be (Griselbrand is still the best one imo, cause it gives you redraws), the only one is Razaketh, the Foulblooded which is kinda a lackluster as a TTB target since it needs another creature to be able to generate a tutor chain (you TTB him, sac a creature to grab Goryo's to Goryo's him next turn for 16 damage).
So many things to ponder around, but for the time being I would want to test Piggy in a non Powder shell as TTB 5-6 pre board and TTB 5-8 post board.
Greetings,
Kathal
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I honestly never thought, that we could get an upgrade on the creature/enabler side, but here we are. Putting the problem with Path aside (which can be handled via different cards), that card is just bonkers. Why?
- It is a recurring cheat engine, since there is no way to remove it permanently (it will return sooner than later)
- It is cheap enough to get hard casted
- It doges most played removal, Lightning Axe, Dismember, Bolt and Push does nothing against Mr. Boar
- It is a three card combo with any other creature with only a single cheat spell, which is insane
The only con is: You want that guy in the classic none Shoal version, which is honestly not that big of an problem, since nobody plays control atm and GDS is either way a piss-poor match-up.
I was already starting to brew with Neheb, Dreadhorde Champion cause of how good his ability is in the Necrotic Ooze version (after brewing around with a Powder + Gemstone Cavern + Pull of Eternity Build), but now I put a stop on it and will go back to the classic version. Dunno if I want to go Powder route or not, has it's pro and cons.
Greetings,
Kathal
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Tested a hybrid build of Narset + Griselbrand yesterday evening (build it and played 20+ goldfish games). Thoughts:
It does not really work. Narset adds so many "bad" cards to the deck (to be able to get actually benefits of her) that it is not really worth it. However, what I noticed was, that Pull from Eternity combined with both Serum Powder and Gemstone Caverns led to some very interesting turn 2 kills via Griselbrand. How it works: You are on the draw, use Powder or Gemstone Cavern (ideally) to exile Griselbrand, so you can go for Pull into Vengeance on turn 2. Increased the speed (and also the consisntency) by quite a noticeable margin.
So, next version I will try is a Powder version, something I wanted to do since quite a while.
Greetings,
Kathal
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I've recently had a renewed interest in Fury of the Horde versions. Something about having 8 fatties and 8 enablers is making more sense to me right now than the weird 4/8 and 4/4 split that puts us in between Sneak Attack and Reanimator. With the Shoal version, if you don't have a Griselbrand in your top 10-15 cards, you just lose. Adding Big Spaghetti back into the mix somewhat alleviates this issue. Does anyone have any Fury lists kicking around?
If you really want to go the Fury route, I suggest to do the following:
Play Narset, Enlightened Master, Serum Powder, Pull from Eternity and different Fury effects (Fury of the Horde, Relentless Assault or Waves of Aggression) + maybe Spoils of the Vault. That is probably the most consistent Fury deck out there, since it is purely graveyard focused (cause of the interaction of Powder, Pull and Goryo's), can still play Breach without any problems and can spell based ramp (Morphose works too) to generate extra mana of Narset to do stuff with cards in your hand.
Sure, if you go more the Narset route, than stuff like Conflux, Brilliant Ultimatum, Enter the Infinite or Omniscience could be played (see here and here for more infos). However, that are details and more important the question, how deep you want to go down that rabbit hole.
Thing is, I would try to avoid playing Emmi atm (but if you want to beat Infinite Life, Warship and co where Lab Man would do the trick too), cause she is kinda clunky and more often than not cannot kill on the spot. Than you need to play Bolt to have a way to kill the opp. Also Grisel is not a sure win, more of an set-up, since you more often than not need another combo turn to actually close out the game. Hence, I would go the more brutal approach with Narset tbh.
Greetings,
Kathal
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
If the reprint Entomb I'm very sure, that Goryo's will get banned.
Than again, I expect something like Careful Study like card more than anything else for this deck. There won't be a new (playable) cheat spell, there won't be hard tutors like Entomb, we just might get a better Wurm card or cantrip, nothing more and nothing less.
Greetings,
Kathal
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Phoenix was once a good match-up, since they included MD Surgical's it kinda tipped. Since it is the most popular deck atm, it is kinda iffy to say it this way.
Besides this, in general I would advise against playing/learning Griselbanned. The hassle of learning the deck is not really worth it, when there are other decks out there, which are as good or even better than Griselbanned but way easier to learn.
Greetings,
Kathal
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
what match-ups do you usually board in the thoughtseize's & kozilek's return?..isn't 18 lands a li'l greedy?
Missed that I only had 18 lands, will definitely go back up to 19
K-Return for those match-ups which can race you by going wide. Affinity, H-Scales and similar strategies. You could play Anger or Bontus over it, it was just a gut call based on what I expected.
I just edited my answer because we can't discuss bans or unbans in this part of the forum. I think of the 14 Warnings I've had, 13 of them has been answering these kinds of questions.
Know that feeling mate.
Greetings,
Kathal
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I just played few games with my Griselboy at my LGS. I find it impossible to win with Death's Shadow. What to do against them?
You pray to dodge them, as simple as it is.
Only Chalice tips the match-up somewhat, and even than it is atrocious. It is nearly as bad as the old Infect match-up was.
Played today at a local event with some nice prices:
Round 1 vs Spirits:
Game 1 won by playing around CoCo into Queller but not Wanderer (he had a Lord and I had a SSG to pay, but he would be 2/2). Got rewarded, since he had a Queller in hand.
Game 2 nothing special happened, Griseldaddy ftw.
Round 2 vs UR Control (no Moons)
Game 1 I had the turn three combo based on a DD Reanimate line, but I whiffed completely (drew 10 lands from the draw 14). Died to Bolt + Snap Bolt the following turn.
Game 2 I had a clunky hand and got punished for it. Should have mulled it down. Also made a mistake by playing TTB mainphase, should have been in his upkeep in response to the last Ancestral counter coming off.
Round 3 vs Goblin Prison
Game 1 I mulled to 4...
Game 2 I won quite easy on turn 3 thanks to a DD line through a Chalice on 2 (splice action baby)
Game 3 I won through Bridge + Eidolon by using Abrade in Bridge to get an attack off with Griselbrand which gained me enough life to be able to win afterwards.
Round 4 vs Dredge
Game 1 I had the turn 3 Wurm, was enough to win
Game 2 I had the turn 2 Griselbrand (DD line again), was enough (even though I needed to draw my whole deck)
Round 5 vs Devoted Druid ID
Played it out for the price split
Game 1 I mulled down to 4, no way I this
Game I kept a clunky double removal hand (Axe + K-Return). Got punished by a Postmortem Lunge from them. He didn't play them last week so I didn't expect it.
Result: 3-1-1
Should have won the game vs UR though.
Edit says: This was the first time ever, that Dispersal was useful (in theory). I played some games vs R Prison afterwards, he established a board with: Bridge, double Needle (Griselbrand + Borbor), double Welding Jar. The two Abrades that I had looked pretty old here
Using Dispersal as an instant into a Wurm attack into another Dispersal to overall get rid of Bridge was the only line possible to win here. Hence, I might add a Watery Grave than to the deck.
is it the same when you cast nourishing shoal splicing breach..and an opponent cast skullcrack in response does the breach also fizzles due to not being able to gain life?
That is something completely different.
Basically, a spell fizzles (if it is already casted and on the stack), if all the available targets got invalid due to different reasons. For example, if you cast a Bolt targeting a creature and the opponent casts Dive Down on it, the Bolt has no legal targets anymore and thus fizzles.
However, as long as the spell has legal targets (if it required one, example would be Opt, no legal target required in this case) than the spell won't fizzle even though it would do nothing.
Example: If you Remand a creature which is un-counterable due to Cavern of Souls, Remand will try to counter the spell, but the spell cannot be counter --> That half of the Spell does nothing. However, Remand has further text which says "Draw a Card".
This means the creature will resolve but you are able to draw a card.
Similar to this is a Shoal with a spliced TTB. You have no targets for the spell so the spell cannot fizzle in this regard. When the opponent now casts Skullcrack or Atarka's Command (or anything like this), you simply won't get any life but you will still get the TTB effect.
Those things are important to know, when you try to win via a splice goryo into a normal cast goyro in response to graveyard hate. If you use any Arcane card, which has no targets (e.g. Shoal and Ritual) it will fizzle if you use Goryo's spliced on it, if the target of Goryo's gets invalid. If you would use Glacial Ray instead (which targets something) and you splice a Goryo's on it, even if the target for Goryo's gets invalid, Glacial Ray still has a target and thus that part of the spell still resolves (the other part fizzles due to not having any legal target).
That is the reason, why a Cryptic with counter + draw gets "countered" if you use a Remand to bounce your own spell. Since it loses it's only target it fizzles and the opp cannot draw a card (and that is also a big reason, why Remand is so good in those control match-ups).
Greetings,
Kathal
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
In that case it does. You only have a single legal target (with Goryo's Vengeance targeting Griselbrand), when this one target becomes invalid the spell fizzels. Since the Spell is TTB + Goyro's, both fizzel.
Same thing happens if you splice Goryo's on Shoal and the target gets removed.
Greetings,
Kathal
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
It is only a suitable replacement, if you are not comboing at instant speed. Otherwise Manamorphose is strictly better. Furthermore, Pentad Prism also makes mana light combo draws more iffy, since you are only getting one mana out of it. Hence, if you would want to replace Morphose with a card, which filters red into B, go for Wild Cantor instead. It filters you the one B mana you need, costs only 1 (so mana efficient when comboing), can be pitched to Shoal (if you need something to splice) and can block in a pinch. However, it doesn't allow for a turn 3 TTB which Prism would allow you to do.
Basically Morphose >>>>>>> Wild Cantor >> Pentad Prism
(and than again, I would only play Morphose if you REALLY want that effect in the deck, since it has such a low base power in this deck compared to Phoenix)
Greetings,
Kathal
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I play with brutlity for the Burn MU, Thalia's MU e and for 4 discards in side. But i don't like it too at all.
If i'll prefer to use Chalice, what should i take out? The leylines?
Because leyline is here husto for discards (i don't use it against burn or direct damage)
I don't like defense grid too. Often i win in opponent's turn. It's the advabtage of a instant speed combo kill.
The missing slots in MD are 2 Desperate and a Manamorphose
Bontu's seems better than anger for the meta or anger is fine?
Hiw do you build tour side and how are you going on the Stands?
I'm really satisfy with the deck performance. He looks great for the meta. Just DS bother us ://
With the resurgence of BG it is kinda difficult. I would personally just accept that DS is a bad match-up and just run Leyline instead, which are still decent vs them, just not as backbreaking as Chalice. So I would board in 4 Leylines and 2-3 Pact of Negation (depending on how many cards you have to board out). Note: Leyline is better in lists which are playing Tormenting Voice/Reunion, since you can discard excessive ones later in the game.
Bontu vs Anger, it depends on what you want to have. Anger is better vs aggro, Bontu better vs big dumb creature boards (Humans, Eldarzie and Death Shadow). Hence, if you are expecting lots of fast Aggro decks, where you would want an Sweeper, bring Anger, otherwise Bontu. Though, I would personally run a split between them (1-1) with a singe target removal spell in addition. More often than not you just want to kill that one creature instead of the whole board.
Yeah that is my question as well, choosing between Anger and Bontu is tough, why would we pick the latter?
Also, what about the PENTAD PRISM. I don't have them yet but it seems so nice to store some mana. I found that in the past people used this card in the deck. What happened and why it is not around? Have anyone tested it before?
Pentad Prism got cut from the Shoal version quite early. It is clunky (you need to play it on turn 2), it enables different interaction spells (Decay/Trophy) and only makes the TTB kill a turn faster (compared to a SSG/Ritual). In the Fist version you needed it to be able to filter the mana, in the classic all in version you kinda wanted it to have somewhat reliable turn 3 TTB (NOTE: This was way back, when more Maelstrom Pulse saw more play than Decays) and in the more midrangy versions you never wanted it, since it was a dead card.
Hence, if you do not want to go back to the all in version without Shoal (so with either Fury and/or Soul Spike) do not play that card. Ritual is way better, since it also allows splice action (which comes up a lot).
Greetings,
Kathal
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Two possible Pig versions: All-in Pig vs Midrange Pig. All in Pig should be lethal with Griselbrand cause of Fury of the Hordes, but Griselbrand is usually already lethal with it so basically Pig is unnecessary. Emmi + Pig is usually also Lethal, but against flying Blockers where you can repeat it next turn (if you have not cheated Pig in) it sucks, cause with a cheated Pig you do not get the Annihilation trigger, which is the biggest appeal from Emmi.
So All-in Pig looks kinda wonky, cause when you already have a pay off creature which you can cheat it, you should have won already. Pig makes only sense, if you want to use it as a TTB 5-8, which is interesting, especially Post Board when graveyard hate is comming in from the opponent, since you are capable of cutting all the Goryo's while still having enough "cheat" spells.
However, this requires more Pentad Prism, since you have more 5 drops you want to cheat on turn 3 ideally. So a Playset Pentad Prism between the main/SB is a must as some numbers of Gemstone Cavern and SSG to have redundancy. Historically speaking, Pentad Prism was always iffy, cause it was just a bad ramp card, since it could get removed rather easily. So meh.
The Midrange build is kinda interesting, especially combined with LotV, pitching Pig does not harm you, it just slows you down by 2 turns realistically (you will have at least one redraw usually). Pig there is both a value beater (which is usually the biggest beater but flipped TiTi and Shadows) as a cheat spell. What creatures to cheat in that sort of build is an interesting question. The obvious ones, Griselbrand and Emmi are not really that good with it, you would want something like Rakdos the Defiler or Obzedat, Ghost Council to get the max benefits out of it. However, Rakdos sucks as a cheat creature and Obzedat is fine, but you would rather want to play it in a dedicated Midrange shell (like the Esper one, which saw play). Basically, Pig would be Goryo's 5-8 in that deck, which is fine, but not necessary (regarding the Esper shell).
So since Piggy is not that interesting in an all in version (since you always need another creature to actually do something) and decent in the Midrange build (cause of the anti-synergies with most cheat creatures you would want to play in that shell but Obzedat), something in the middle is needed. Basically a shell, where a TTB/Goryo's creature has as big of an influence as an creature cheated in via Piggy. I have ad-hoc no idea which creature this could be (Griselbrand is still the best one imo, cause it gives you redraws), the only one is Razaketh, the Foulblooded which is kinda a lackluster as a TTB target since it needs another creature to be able to generate a tutor chain (you TTB him, sac a creature to grab Goryo's to Goryo's him next turn for 16 damage).
So many things to ponder around, but for the time being I would want to test Piggy in a non Powder shell as TTB 5-6 pre board and TTB 5-8 post board.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I honestly never thought, that we could get an upgrade on the creature/enabler side, but here we are. Putting the problem with Path aside (which can be handled via different cards), that card is just bonkers. Why?
- It is a recurring cheat engine, since there is no way to remove it permanently (it will return sooner than later)
- It is cheap enough to get hard casted
- It doges most played removal, Lightning Axe, Dismember, Bolt and Push does nothing against Mr. Boar
- It is a three card combo with any other creature with only a single cheat spell, which is insane
The only con is: You want that guy in the classic none Shoal version, which is honestly not that big of an problem, since nobody plays control atm and GDS is either way a piss-poor match-up.
I was already starting to brew with Neheb, Dreadhorde Champion cause of how good his ability is in the Necrotic Ooze version (after brewing around with a Powder + Gemstone Cavern + Pull of Eternity Build), but now I put a stop on it and will go back to the classic version. Dunno if I want to go Powder route or not, has it's pro and cons.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
It does not really work. Narset adds so many "bad" cards to the deck (to be able to get actually benefits of her) that it is not really worth it. However, what I noticed was, that Pull from Eternity combined with both Serum Powder and Gemstone Caverns led to some very interesting turn 2 kills via Griselbrand. How it works: You are on the draw, use Powder or Gemstone Cavern (ideally) to exile Griselbrand, so you can go for Pull into Vengeance on turn 2. Increased the speed (and also the consisntency) by quite a noticeable margin.
So, next version I will try is a Powder version, something I wanted to do since quite a while.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
If you really want to go the Fury route, I suggest to do the following:
Play Narset, Enlightened Master, Serum Powder, Pull from Eternity and different Fury effects (Fury of the Horde, Relentless Assault or Waves of Aggression) + maybe Spoils of the Vault. That is probably the most consistent Fury deck out there, since it is purely graveyard focused (cause of the interaction of Powder, Pull and Goryo's), can still play Breach without any problems and can spell based ramp (Morphose works too) to generate extra mana of Narset to do stuff with cards in your hand.
Sure, if you go more the Narset route, than stuff like Conflux, Brilliant Ultimatum, Enter the Infinite or Omniscience could be played (see here and here for more infos). However, that are details and more important the question, how deep you want to go down that rabbit hole.
Thing is, I would try to avoid playing Emmi atm (but if you want to beat Infinite Life, Warship and co where Lab Man would do the trick too), cause she is kinda clunky and more often than not cannot kill on the spot. Than you need to play Bolt to have a way to kill the opp. Also Grisel is not a sure win, more of an set-up, since you more often than not need another combo turn to actually close out the game. Hence, I would go the more brutal approach with Narset tbh.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Than again, I expect something like Careful Study like card more than anything else for this deck. There won't be a new (playable) cheat spell, there won't be hard tutors like Entomb, we just might get a better Wurm card or cantrip, nothing more and nothing less.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Besides this, in general I would advise against playing/learning Griselbanned. The hassle of learning the deck is not really worth it, when there are other decks out there, which are as good or even better than Griselbanned but way easier to learn.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Missed that I only had 18 lands, will definitely go back up to 19
K-Return for those match-ups which can race you by going wide. Affinity, H-Scales and similar strategies. You could play Anger or Bontus over it, it was just a gut call based on what I expected.
Know that feeling mate.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Only Chalice tips the match-up somewhat, and even than it is atrocious. It is nearly as bad as the old Infect match-up was.
Played today at a local event with some nice prices:
Round 1 vs Spirits:
Game 1 won by playing around CoCo into Queller but not Wanderer (he had a Lord and I had a SSG to pay, but he would be 2/2). Got rewarded, since he had a Queller in hand.
Game 2 nothing special happened, Griseldaddy ftw.
Round 2 vs UR Control (no Moons)
Game 1 I had the turn three combo based on a DD Reanimate line, but I whiffed completely (drew 10 lands from the draw 14). Died to Bolt + Snap Bolt the following turn.
Game 2 I had a clunky hand and got punished for it. Should have mulled it down. Also made a mistake by playing TTB mainphase, should have been in his upkeep in response to the last Ancestral counter coming off.
Round 3 vs Goblin Prison
Game 1 I mulled to 4...
Game 2 I won quite easy on turn 3 thanks to a DD line through a Chalice on 2 (splice action baby)
Game 3 I won through Bridge + Eidolon by using Abrade in Bridge to get an attack off with Griselbrand which gained me enough life to be able to win afterwards.
Round 4 vs Dredge
Game 1 I had the turn 3 Wurm, was enough to win
Game 2 I had the turn 2 Griselbrand (DD line again), was enough (even though I needed to draw my whole deck)
Round 5 vs Devoted Druid ID
Played it out for the price split
Game 1 I mulled down to 4, no way I this
Game I kept a clunky double removal hand (Axe + K-Return). Got punished by a Postmortem Lunge from them. He didn't play them last week so I didn't expect it.
Result: 3-1-1
Should have won the game vs UR though.
Edit says: This was the first time ever, that Dispersal was useful (in theory). I played some games vs R Prison afterwards, he established a board with: Bridge, double Needle (Griselbrand + Borbor), double Welding Jar. The two Abrades that I had looked pretty old here
Using Dispersal as an instant into a Wurm attack into another Dispersal to overall get rid of Bridge was the only line possible to win here. Hence, I might add a Watery Grave than to the deck.
Oh, btw, decklist:
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Blood Crypt
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Temple of Malice
5 Swamp
2 Mountain
//Creatures
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Griselbrand
4 Worldspine Wurm
2 Borborygmos Enraged
4 Faithless Looting
4 Discovery // Dispersal
2 Night's Whisper
1 Tormenting Voice
2 Lightning Axe
2 Desperate Ritual
4 Goryo's Vengeance
4 Nourishing Shoal
1 Manamorphose
4 Through the Breach
2 Pact of Negation
2 Thoughtseize
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Kozilek's Return
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Collective Brutality
2 Abrade
1 Engineered Explosives
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
That is something completely different.
Basically, a spell fizzles (if it is already casted and on the stack), if all the available targets got invalid due to different reasons. For example, if you cast a Bolt targeting a creature and the opponent casts Dive Down on it, the Bolt has no legal targets anymore and thus fizzles.
However, as long as the spell has legal targets (if it required one, example would be Opt, no legal target required in this case) than the spell won't fizzle even though it would do nothing.
Example: If you Remand a creature which is un-counterable due to Cavern of Souls, Remand will try to counter the spell, but the spell cannot be counter --> That half of the Spell does nothing. However, Remand has further text which says "Draw a Card".
This means the creature will resolve but you are able to draw a card.
Similar to this is a Shoal with a spliced TTB. You have no targets for the spell so the spell cannot fizzle in this regard. When the opponent now casts Skullcrack or Atarka's Command (or anything like this), you simply won't get any life but you will still get the TTB effect.
Those things are important to know, when you try to win via a splice goryo into a normal cast goyro in response to graveyard hate. If you use any Arcane card, which has no targets (e.g. Shoal and Ritual) it will fizzle if you use Goryo's spliced on it, if the target of Goryo's gets invalid. If you would use Glacial Ray instead (which targets something) and you splice a Goryo's on it, even if the target for Goryo's gets invalid, Glacial Ray still has a target and thus that part of the spell still resolves (the other part fizzles due to not having any legal target).
That is the reason, why a Cryptic with counter + draw gets "countered" if you use a Remand to bounce your own spell. Since it loses it's only target it fizzles and the opp cannot draw a card (and that is also a big reason, why Remand is so good in those control match-ups).
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Same thing happens if you splice Goryo's on Shoal and the target gets removed.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Basically Morphose >>>>>>> Wild Cantor >> Pentad Prism
(and than again, I would only play Morphose if you REALLY want that effect in the deck, since it has such a low base power in this deck compared to Phoenix)
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
With the resurgence of BG it is kinda difficult. I would personally just accept that DS is a bad match-up and just run Leyline instead, which are still decent vs them, just not as backbreaking as Chalice. So I would board in 4 Leylines and 2-3 Pact of Negation (depending on how many cards you have to board out). Note: Leyline is better in lists which are playing Tormenting Voice/Reunion, since you can discard excessive ones later in the game.
Bontu vs Anger, it depends on what you want to have. Anger is better vs aggro, Bontu better vs big dumb creature boards (Humans, Eldarzie and Death Shadow). Hence, if you are expecting lots of fast Aggro decks, where you would want an Sweeper, bring Anger, otherwise Bontu. Though, I would personally run a split between them (1-1) with a singe target removal spell in addition. More often than not you just want to kill that one creature instead of the whole board.
Regarding the Sweepers, see above.
Pentad Prism got cut from the Shoal version quite early. It is clunky (you need to play it on turn 2), it enables different interaction spells (Decay/Trophy) and only makes the TTB kill a turn faster (compared to a SSG/Ritual). In the Fist version you needed it to be able to filter the mana, in the classic all in version you kinda wanted it to have somewhat reliable turn 3 TTB (NOTE: This was way back, when more Maelstrom Pulse saw more play than Decays) and in the more midrangy versions you never wanted it, since it was a dead card.
Hence, if you do not want to go back to the all in version without Shoal (so with either Fury and/or Soul Spike) do not play that card. Ritual is way better, since it also allows splice action (which comes up a lot).
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)