Ah, right. Keep forgetting that creatures can also help paying for the colored mana. Another question then - I don't see the combo with Arcbond, Charm and this Shield, could you explain?
I stuckEcho Storm in place of Metamorph for the moment, but I'm really terrible at drawing it. By which I mean I've played 6 games and haven't drawn it. I like it theoretically. Also, I have a deck that profits off of giving people creatures, so Xantcha and Varchild make me happy, just not in Zedruu.
Sorry, I don't want to derail this thread, but I'd really like to hear your take on both Xantcha and Varchild, since they are the only two cards from Cmd18 I found interesting and now want to build decks around.
I finally put my Zedruu deck together and got to play a couple of games with it. I'm having fun dealing arbitrary amounts of damage to my opponents. One game I had 81 Precursor Golem's and 1836 vanillas thanks to a Cackling Counterpart and an Annoited Procession. They all turned into Goblin Rabblemaster's, though only 8 could attack, which was just a little bit more then enough (for 30.728 damage, if my calculations is correct!).
Did anyone say "the 1/1s kill us, you can stop doing math now"?
Well, yeah, we picked up our cards pretty quickly afterwards, but I just had to know how much damage it was
In another game, I was really low on life, but a Inferno Titan stalled for a moment, then I made two more copies and then I started to wreck board. Declaring attacks and I cleared my opponent's board and swung for 18, next turn 27. That was game.
I finally put my Zedruu deck together and got to play a couple of games with it. I'm having fun dealing arbitrary amounts of damage to my opponents. One game I had 81 Precursor Golem's and 1836 vanillas thanks to a Cackling Counterpart and an Annoited Procession. They all turned into Goblin Rabblemaster's, though only 8 could attack, which was just a little bit more then enough (for 30.728 damage, if my calculations is correct!).
Cackling Counterpart is probably the best individual copy spell for Precursor Golem because it casts twice. For reference, a kicked Rite of Replication with 1 Precursor Golem and friends leaves you with 6 Precursors and 22 vanillas, cast and flashback Cackling Counterpart gets you to 8 precursors and 40 vanillas. Iteration is stronger than increased power.
Sorry for being dumb, but how does two copies of Cackling Counterpart net you 8 PC and 40 vanillas? First spell would target the 3 golems, one which make another 2 vanillas. Thats 2 PC's and 6 vanillas, right? In my mind, the flashback would get you to 4 PC's and 24 vanillas...
About Fractured Identity, I think it's only really good when you have something awful you want to donate others. Exiling something scary from an opponent sure enough gives you then same scary *****, but potentially makes another two. But a fun card for sure!
I'm not that much into tribal (except my sweet fungi one), so Cmd17 havn't brought that much to my attention, but I really like Teferi's Protection. I think my Zedruu deck wants it
You're right about the doubling effects stacking with each other but doubling corresponds to multiplication by 2, not to multiplication by 5. So the damage would be (Zedruu's power + Thassa's power)*2^29 = 3,758,096,384. Or, if you prefer, 375-809-6384. As someone who regularly beats face with Zedruu I'm absurdly envious right now. Well done.
Yeah, of cause. The 5^29 came from Zedruu and Thassa being 5/5's, but im just not that good at math. And thank you - maybe you should add Mirrorweave to your list
I'm less an expert on Mirrorweave than I am an enthusiast, so I can mostly just speak to my experiences. Like getting someone to mill out by drawing 30 cards from their 15 Drogskol Reavers, or going into combat with like 8 Goblin Rabblemasters, or pumping all my Jeskai Ascendancies with all my Jeskai Ascendancies. As far as artifacts go, part of my writing project here is a treatise on what happens if you turn permanents into Knowledge Pool, but that's pretty much the opposite of making a blowout out of nowhere. Obviously you can't Mirrorweave Time Vault in this format, but if you could, it'd be pretty clever. I've also thought about Doubling Cube or Blinkmoth Urn, but those require good mana sinks to do anything special. In the end, most of my artifact Mirrorweaving has been Font of Mythos on upkeep to draw like 30 cards and then worry about actually winning.
The only other artifact thought I have comes from an entirely different deck idea I've tooled around with, but never with blue so never with Mirrorweave. That deck is "give people creatures" the deck, where things like Forbidden Orchard and Varchild's War-Riders feed people creatures, and then stuff like Repercussion and Rakdos Charm punish them, and one of my punishment cards is Angel's Trumpet, and thinking about it, you may not need much support to get that working. With March of the Machines, there should be 10+ creatures in play pretty regularly, and someone might have 4 things they'd rather be hurt by than risk in combat thinking 4 damage is no big deal, and then kablammo 40! To note, Angel's Trumpet is not something I can play in this deck because then everyone would just attack me and I'd be murdered dead in a pass or 2 around the table, but if you're building deliberately for Mirrorweave, you're probably playing some creatures than can block for you a little better than a Memnite.
I think I saw you mention that "give peopler creatures" deck somewhere. Sounds like a pretty awesome idea! I might consider the Trumpet for my deck, I could see it being a blowout, and I do already have Forbidden Orchard in my deck. I also run some pillowfort pieces, though I'm not sure which of them I'm settled for. The "pay x to attack" have been mediocre, so now I'm testing Meekstone and Crackdown. If I were to add some "give people creatures"-strategy, maybe Smoke might be a good card to add, or even Crawlspace. I don't have many blockers, but the Morphling (which is a old favorite of mine) and Aetherling is indeed better blockers then Memnite, and they have pretty good evasion.
I couldn't even do the math But am I right about the doubling damage stacking, so the damage dealt would have been 5^29?
Edit: You seem to have indepth knowlegde about Mirrorweave - do you know of any artifacts that it would do some wanky interactions with? Right now I really only have Thought Reflection and Dictate of the Twin Gods. Noyan Dar and Contested War Zone also. Thinking about adding Drooling Ogre too, though it's not as fun stealing their creatures as it is making a blowout out of onewhere!
Thank you tStorm. You made me want to build a deck revolved around Mirrorweave. What a fun card! Just played a game where it won me the game. It was a crazy board for sure, but everything got stalled, though everyone was about to go off. Eot I flash in Dictate of the Twin Gods, then proceed to play Starfield of Nyx and Wild Research which tutors for Mirrorweave. I make Zedruu and Thassa, God of the Sea unblockable and attack, Mirrorweave targets Dictate of the Twin Gods with 29 creatures on board... This card is just stupid!
First off, cool deck! I have a friend who play Zedruu, but he hasn't got the time or money to invest in it, so sometimes I do it or him instead, and I've been looking at your list a lot. His decks isn't anything like yours though and never will be, but your list have given me some great input. The land-swappers have been an espacially welcomed addition to his deck. Last time I played with him, he Rite of Replicate 'ed a Vedalken Plotter denying almost all of my forests. I can't remember if it was the same game, but we also stumbled upon a pretty nasty interaction. Rainbow Vale have been in his deck ever since I found it in my binder a long time ago, but it never shone, and would only swap around if Zedruu were on the field. But this time it did, when he exchanged my land with Rainbow Vale. It's pretty janky, but never the less a nice interaction that feels like stealing a land. Also, not sure if you are able to tap Rainbow Vale for mana and still donate it.
Sorry, I don't want to derail this thread, but I'd really like to hear your take on both Xantcha and Varchild, since they are the only two cards from Cmd18 I found interesting and now want to build decks around.
Well, yeah, we picked up our cards pretty quickly afterwards, but I just had to know how much damage it was
In another game, I was really low on life, but a Inferno Titan stalled for a moment, then I made two more copies and then I started to wreck board. Declaring attacks and I cleared my opponent's board and swung for 18, next turn 27. That was game.
Sorry for being dumb, but how does two copies of Cackling Counterpart net you 8 PC and 40 vanillas? First spell would target the 3 golems, one which make another 2 vanillas. Thats 2 PC's and 6 vanillas, right? In my mind, the flashback would get you to 4 PC's and 24 vanillas...
I'm not that much into tribal (except my sweet fungi one), so Cmd17 havn't brought that much to my attention, but I really like Teferi's Protection. I think my Zedruu deck wants it
This is hilarious.
I think I saw you mention that "give peopler creatures" deck somewhere. Sounds like a pretty awesome idea! I might consider the Trumpet for my deck, I could see it being a blowout, and I do already have Forbidden Orchard in my deck. I also run some pillowfort pieces, though I'm not sure which of them I'm settled for. The "pay x to attack" have been mediocre, so now I'm testing Meekstone and Crackdown. If I were to add some "give people creatures"-strategy, maybe Smoke might be a good card to add, or even Crawlspace. I don't have many blockers, but the Morphling (which is a old favorite of mine) and Aetherling is indeed better blockers then Memnite, and they have pretty good evasion.
Edit: You seem to have indepth knowlegde about Mirrorweave - do you know of any artifacts that it would do some wanky interactions with? Right now I really only have Thought Reflection and Dictate of the Twin Gods. Noyan Dar and Contested War Zone also. Thinking about adding Drooling Ogre too, though it's not as fun stealing their creatures as it is making a blowout out of onewhere!