So, I have been pondering cuts here, because there's just no way to fit the new toys I want without backing out of a combo or two. I think I've decided to cut Cowardice.
If I was planning this deck for 1 on 1 primarily, I'd want to keep it, but in multiplayer I've had problematic experiences. It draws an unreasonable amount of removal. It's like "don't Naturalize that, it's stopping her Skullclamp." "But I want to kill you creatures permanently, and that Skullclamp hasn't done anything" "because it's turned off by the cowardice you're killing!" I usually don't mind paying 5 mana to eat removal with 1 opponent, but it feels like 5 mana to counter so.eones disruption that could be aimed at a 3rd player, and then that player moves along uninhibited just because everyone hates Cowardice.
That seems annoying. They just didn't understand the causality there? Do you play random players at an LGS, by the way?
Also, did the player with Skullclamp not start using it to bounce and replay ETB creatures? I can imagine some situations where it would be grand to be given a bounce effect.
That actually sounds super neat! But that would add a ton of text to an already incredibly unwieldy post, so I think the better plan would be to make the puzzles in individual replies and then just make a directory of links to them.
That sounds better. That way viewers will also have any contextual discussion or follow-on questions available, too.
Well, I really appreciate the examples and puzzles, because I need to start looking for interactions among the cards and practicing sequences like that. Such as when I didn't see the ability of Strionic Resonator to copy Eye of the Storm's trigger to keep it going with Catch.
Actually, a section in the OP for various puzzles (not just the combo section) that have come up in the thread could be nice to have. I could help compile a list of comments including puzzles if you are interested.
And just now I was goldfishing cause I got some new toys in the mail (mostly just splurging on foils, but I also bought a kinda pricey land because lol they thought they bannedKarakas). I ended up in a situation where I had Eye of the Storm holding Time Spiral and Leave // Chance and had to do a few cycles of Mirror of Fate before I had both the right cards and mana to "win" the game, and it only worked smoothly because I had Leave picking up unnecessary permanents to keep my hand/library/graveyard at exactly 7 cards every time I Time Spiraled. The precision of that sequence was like watching a rotary engine fire.
I don't quite understand and would love an example. Did you not have Rest in Peace down?
On the subject of fancy blue lands, I kinda wanna try Magosi, the Waterveil. I can't combo with it. I'm not going to run Rings of Brighthearth to combo with it. I just wanna try it, cause I can think of 3 situations I'd use it, and I think they'd be worth the downside of one more tapped land occasionally. Situation A) the Vedalken Orrery standoff: I'm holding up mana to interact with people who'd rather I tap out for a moment, so I activate Magosi before my turn arrives and just sit with my mana open one more time around the table with an extra turn banked for later. Situation B) I have Knowledge Pool or Eye of the Storm in hand against an opponent who will win with them if I leave them out for a turn, so I skip a turn to get two in a row so I get first access to those things after I play them. Situation C) it's one of the earlier turns of the game and I miracle Temporal Mastery, and rather than play Explore on turn 4, I skip the turn and bank it as a more impactful Time Walk later in the game. Thoughts?
Activating the eon counter ability (that skips the next turn) would be the perfect time for somebody to respond by stripping it. So it would make me wary.
Ah! Thanks for that. I can't remember if I got to the Resonator after Cowardice came down, but Release would have solved that.
It has 2 luck counters, hahaha. Mizzix had cast Tezzeret's Gambit earlier and this happened:
Him: "Now, is there anything else I should proliferate" *looks around the battlefield*
Me: "How about my luck counter?"
Him: "Does it do anything?"
Me: "Nope."
Him: "Okay, sure."
My opponents needed to wrap things up and start heading home, assuming I was going to win, so I continued as if I still had 3 opponents and a couple of them kept watching to see what would happen as they packed up and/or wrangled their kids. After using Temporal Cascade (21 Treasure tokens!) and Ascendancy triggers to dig into Eye of the Storm, Strionic Resonator, Unbender Tine, Time Spiral, Ephemeral Shields, Catch // Release, Cowardice, I was trying to work out some hypotheticals with golems and it was at this point that my brain broke and I couldn't see a way to what I wanted.
I'd considered casting Precursor Golem and Infinite Reflection, but I probably goofed by some of the cards I pitched earlier on discards (including Vedalken Orrery and Razia, Boros Archangel - *facepalm*). I felt like I was stuck because I figured I was just one or two cards short of a few different combos or something else that I messed up by the order in which I did things. Warstorm Surge and Mirror of Fate were still in the library and I might have been able to dig into them.
I realize now (after staring at that image and writing this up) that I should have cast the Mind's Desire cards entirely differently:
Echo Storm targeting a golem token, stacking its self-copy trigger above the Precursor copy triggers, and those above the Ascendancy trigger — single self-copy of Echo targeting the original Precursor.
I figure this results in 8 Precursors and Sakashima plus 43 golem tokens, all with +1/+1 from Ascendancy already.
Then the last 3 free-to-cast spells are all noncreature for another +3/+3, not to mention some +1/+1 counters from tapping them all in response to each Ascendancy trigger and any other spells I drew into.
I can't figure how you can, in the mirror of fate/mind's desire/rest in peace/eye of the storm combo, get infinite damage only with warstorm surge... how would you get that combo out without first getting infinite turns/mana in order to place the warstorm surge with the zedruu/dissipation field/memnite combo?
It wouldn't be Warstorm Surge all on it's own, but some combo in which it enables infinite damage. The first combo just allows you to get all your pieces out and assemble the other combos.
So, I'm testing a few of the newer released cards in here, as I like to do. Smothering Tithe on a normal time around the table feels fine, it's only really felt good with the wheeleffects, but I'm not taking it out until at least I get to donate Mindmoil with it in play.
Thousand-Year Storm is definitely something I underestimated at first glance. I recognized the power, but was afraid the requirement of doing it all in one turn and only counting instants and sorceries would hold it back, but it turns out I have 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 instants or sorceries that can generate mana or free additional spells even before these A, B, C, D (maybe E) get involved. Honestly, it's basically just like Eye of the Storm: you go off the turn you go for it or you sputter out and probably die horribly. It's gonna be swapping back and forth with Bonus Round for a bit while I decide which stays. I like that this upgrades Venser, Shaper Savant from the 5 card infinite solidly into the 4 card infinite club, as with enough mana or enough "TYStorm" count and Cowardice, you can cast Catch target Venser, bounce Venser, recast Venser bouncing Catch, and then use all the Catch copies to generate mana. (For anyone trying to count, if all you have are lands that produce one mana, it takes 35 mana to go infinte this way, but it goes way way down if you have things tapping for more than 1 mana or have already cast spells that turn.)
Yeah, but there could also be other 1 CMC stuff to copy (or animate and copy). Unfortunately means a lot more than one card to buy-in to hijacking their mechanic somewhat.
I do sometimes feel a little creature-light since I took Metamorph out for Echo Storm. But I also still feel like I'm only scratching the surface of what the deck can do.
Ok, that was a different game. Finally found a magic player at work and we did 1v1 this evening. He forgot his deck so ended up playing my SidisiSpiders deck, and I chose Zedruu. Not every card played is mentioned; mainly the highlights.
He was developing board pretty well with Somberwald Sage, Oracle of Mul Daya, and extra draw off the Howling Mine I gave him. He ended up heading for a line of play of Progenitor Mimic copying Deranged Hermit with a Doubling Season in play and Muldrotha and Sidisi backing things up, but Razia was able to take the Mimic out the first time he set that up (that is a pretty flexible ability). I wasn't doing too bad with two permanents swapped (Howling Mine and a land) and Alhammarret's Archive backing up Zedruu.
After I took out the Mimic he held back the remaining squirrels (14) and I was trying to figure out whether I could pare down his board with anything I had in hand, initially looking to Mirrorweave and Infinite Reflection. Instead I decided to take insanity's hand and go for a walk: Bonus Round into a hardcast Temporal Mastery for two extra turns. First of them I got Dissipation Field down and then Knowledge Pool. Second one, an Echo Storm got me another Pool and another swap, Memnite got me Echo Storm again (and two more Pools), and I think I held back mana for some of the instants in my hand after that. Yep, four Knowledge Pools.
He definitely could have been more aggressive in attacks over these turns, but decided to go after the DerangedMimic line again for the +1/+1s, first with the Hermit off of Muldrotha to bypass the Pools. I cast Arcbond to get Teferi and set up for what was coming. Probably should have set up further, but I did something else that turn that I can't remember - ended up not mattering, but I had 6 mana left untapped.
He paid the Hermit's echo cost and cast the Mimic from the graveyard. His squirrels were 3/3 and he had 22 of them without summoning sickness with 8 new ones. He decided to attack with just those 22 squirrels for lethal:
I cast Mirrorweave, getting Arcbond which targeted one of his attacking squirrels.
I cast Leave with my last 2 mana, getting Memnite.
Blocked the Arcbonded squirrel with the Memnite, wiping the board.
I ended up winning soon after with March of the Machines to make 3 of my artifacts creatures, Inferno Titan, and Infinite Reflection on the Titan (the first being under a Pool and the other two having to come from my hand, through a Pool). I should've chosen a creature other than Memnite in the sequence above, such as the Solemn Simulacrum — then I could have used it to chain zero-cost Titans with the Dissipation Field, even without donating it (2 damage to him, 1 to me).
One regret is that I forgot to attack with Razia on my series of three turns in a row. I'd already hit him a couple times with her because he didn't want to chump-block with his Trygon Predator, and I should've kept pushing that.
Had an interesting game last night. That happens a lot with this deck and I really like how it encourages me to go, "I don't know how this will go, let's find out".
Pitted against The Ur-Dragon and Inalla mill, there were some wacky interactions and some very sub-optimal plays on my part (I'll blame that on not playing in 3 months). Poor start with no early draw acceleration, I didn't get any extra draw until I had Zedruu out and donated a land, but that got things going. Inalla had a turn 1 Altar of the Brood and their turn 2 milled my Time Spiral. At some point I Detained Ur-Dragon's Balefire, but before I could donate control Inalla wiped the board due to a couple other dragons. Still no card draw outside of Zedruu and very low on cards, the turn I felt casting her again was the best play saw me losing 5 life and milled 7 cards to Inalla's Memory Erosion, Painful Quandary, and Mindcrank as I needed to keep Leave. With my March of the Machines already in play, I use Leave to give Balefire back which cost me another 5 life and milled 7. Ur-Dragon used that to attack Inalla and take out the artifacts like Mindcrank. Next turn I drew Opalescence and gave a reason to do that again. After that Balefire went into Detention again.
After more swings in advantage between us while controlling each other - in which Ur-Dragon by sheer dumb luck kept getting dragons milled and mainly drawing lands - I managed to squeak out a win off of Ur-Dragon's Warstorm Surge. I still had Opalescence in play and then Mirrorweaved a mix of 7 of my creatures and enchantments (stuff like Leyline, Plotter, Nin, and Kami played the turn before) into Warstorms. Immediately followed that with Dissipation Field and Dack's Duplicate copying Warstorm with one damage trigger hitting myself to bounce that and do that again with my last 4 mana. I had exactly 4 cards left in my library, though I had Temporal Cascade in hand.
Hey man, first i gotta gratz you for the awesome deck, i got excited just by reading the idea. Now, i gotta make a sad question (for me): Do you think the overall theme of the deck could be achieved by cuting the most expensive cards? In other words, do you think a budget version of this deck would work? Im seriously thinking on buying it, mainly bc i love Zedruu, but unfortunately it is out of my price range. I was thinking on cuting some of the duo lands and most of the cards that cost more than $40 dollars (i live in brazil, mtg is really expensive here). Anyways, thanks for reading and cheers for the cool deck!
Definitely possible to lower it. For example Game Plan and Time Reversal are good budget substitutes for Time Spiral (the difference being that you don't get to untap lands). Other ones are nice-to-have for certain shenanigans due to their unique effects (Sakashima for example) but not really required. And some of the expensive lands (e.g. Celestial Colonnade) are for shenanigans, too.
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R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
Also, did the player with Skullclamp not start using it to bounce and replay ETB creatures? I can imagine some situations where it would be grand to be given a bounce effect.
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R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
old thread
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R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
old thread
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R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
old thread
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R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
Actually, a section in the OP for various puzzles (not just the combo section) that have come up in the thread could be nice to have. I could help compile a list of comments including puzzles if you are interested.
old thread
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R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
Activating the eon counter ability (that skips the next turn) would be the perfect time for somebody to respond by stripping it. So it would make me wary.
old thread
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R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
It has 2 luck counters, hahaha. Mizzix had cast Tezzeret's Gambit earlier and this happened:
Him: "Now, is there anything else I should proliferate" *looks around the battlefield*
Me: "How about my luck counter?"
Him: "Does it do anything?"
Me: "Nope."
Him: "Okay, sure."
old thread
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R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
Mizzix had overloaded Cyclonic Rift to buy time, so I began this turn with only lands in play capable of 8 mana and Rest in Peace (because Breya had Mindslavered me and used my Detention Sphere, so it came back).
My initial line of play was Crystalline Crawler -> Dack's Duplicate (Crawler) -> Jeskai Ascendancy -> Turnabout (my lands). I'm pretty sure I followed this with Chrome Mox (imprint Detention Sphere), Izzet Signet, Temple Bell, Dissipation Field, Howling Mine. I probably made some poor decisions on what I pitched off of the Ascendancy triggers, but storm count was 9 and my hand also included (that I remember) Knowledge Pool, Memnite, Temporal Cascade, ... and Mind's Desire.
I cast Mind's Desire and exiled three lands and seven nonlands: Smothering Tithe, Echo Storm, Teferi, Hero of Dominaria, Sakashima the Impostor, Pentad Prism, Infinite Reflection, and Precursor Golem. The first several I figured were pretty easy: cast Tithe, cast Sakashima copying the dethrone/haste version of Crawler, Echo Storm for two more Temple Bells, Teferi and +1 him, Prism just for storm/Ascendancy.
My opponents needed to wrap things up and start heading home, assuming I was going to win, so I continued as if I still had 3 opponents and a couple of them kept watching to see what would happen as they packed up and/or wrangled their kids. After using Temporal Cascade (21 Treasure tokens!) and Ascendancy triggers to dig into Eye of the Storm, Strionic Resonator, Unbender Tine, Time Spiral, Ephemeral Shields, Catch // Release, Cowardice, I was trying to work out some hypotheticals with golems and it was at this point that my brain broke and I couldn't see a way to what I wanted.
I'd considered casting Precursor Golem and Infinite Reflection, but I probably goofed by some of the cards I pitched earlier on discards (including Vedalken Orrery and Razia, Boros Archangel - *facepalm*). I felt like I was stuck because I figured I was just one or two cards short of a few different combos or something else that I messed up by the order in which I did things. Warstorm Surge and Mirror of Fate were still in the library and I might have been able to dig into them.
I realize now (after staring at that image and writing this up) that I should have cast the Mind's Desire cards entirely differently:
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R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
old thread
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R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
What was the 5 card combo?
I've been eyeing Thousand-Year Storm myself, but for a wizard tribal spellslinger Adeliz deck with another Eye of the Storm and stuff like these. Definitely inspired by this deck's shenanigans.
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R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
I do sometimes feel a little creature-light since I took Metamorph out for Echo Storm. But I also still feel like I'm only scratching the surface of what the deck can do.
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R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
He was developing board pretty well with Somberwald Sage, Oracle of Mul Daya, and extra draw off the Howling Mine I gave him. He ended up heading for a line of play of Progenitor Mimic copying Deranged Hermit with a Doubling Season in play and Muldrotha and Sidisi backing things up, but Razia was able to take the Mimic out the first time he set that up (that is a pretty flexible ability). I wasn't doing too bad with two permanents swapped (Howling Mine and a land) and Alhammarret's Archive backing up Zedruu.
After I took out the Mimic he held back the remaining squirrels (14) and I was trying to figure out whether I could pare down his board with anything I had in hand, initially looking to Mirrorweave and Infinite Reflection. Instead I decided to take insanity's hand and go for a walk: Bonus Round into a hardcast Temporal Mastery for two extra turns. First of them I got Dissipation Field down and then Knowledge Pool. Second one, an Echo Storm got me another Pool and another swap, Memnite got me Echo Storm again (and two more Pools), and I think I held back mana for some of the instants in my hand after that. Yep, four Knowledge Pools.
He definitely could have been more aggressive in attacks over these turns, but decided to go after the Deranged Mimic line again for the +1/+1s, first with the Hermit off of Muldrotha to bypass the Pools. I cast Arcbond to get Teferi and set up for what was coming. Probably should have set up further, but I did something else that turn that I can't remember - ended up not mattering, but I had 6 mana left untapped.
He paid the Hermit's echo cost and cast the Mimic from the graveyard. His squirrels were 3/3 and he had 22 of them without summoning sickness with 8 new ones. He decided to attack with just those 22 squirrels for lethal:
One regret is that I forgot to attack with Razia on my series of three turns in a row. I'd already hit him a couple times with her because he didn't want to chump-block with his Trygon Predator, and I should've kept pushing that.
I also feel like I've leaned on Inferno Titan + Infinite Reflection in many of my Zedruu games, though I still look forward to the Barren Glory win some day.
old thread
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R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
Pitted against The Ur-Dragon and Inalla mill, there were some wacky interactions and some very sub-optimal plays on my part (I'll blame that on not playing in 3 months). Poor start with no early draw acceleration, I didn't get any extra draw until I had Zedruu out and donated a land, but that got things going. Inalla had a turn 1 Altar of the Brood and their turn 2 milled my Time Spiral. At some point I Detained Ur-Dragon's Balefire, but before I could donate control Inalla wiped the board due to a couple other dragons. Still no card draw outside of Zedruu and very low on cards, the turn I felt casting her again was the best play saw me losing 5 life and milled 7 cards to Inalla's Memory Erosion, Painful Quandary, and Mindcrank as I needed to keep Leave. With my March of the Machines already in play, I use Leave to give Balefire back which cost me another 5 life and milled 7. Ur-Dragon used that to attack Inalla and take out the artifacts like Mindcrank. Next turn I drew Opalescence and gave a reason to do that again. After that Balefire went into Detention again.
After more swings in advantage between us while controlling each other - in which Ur-Dragon by sheer dumb luck kept getting dragons milled and mainly drawing lands - I managed to squeak out a win off of Ur-Dragon's Warstorm Surge. I still had Opalescence in play and then Mirrorweaved a mix of 7 of my creatures and enchantments (stuff like Leyline, Plotter, Nin, and Kami played the turn before) into Warstorms. Immediately followed that with Dissipation Field and Dack's Duplicate copying Warstorm with one damage trigger hitting myself to bounce that and do that again with my last 4 mana. I had exactly 4 cards left in my library, though I had Temporal Cascade in hand.
old thread
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R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
old thread
old thread
old thread
R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko