Hey guys - I havent played this deck in a while and was just thinking of coming back to it - looking at the recent lists in the thread I have a question (Sorry if its been answered earlier!):
Why no sorin, solemn visitor anymore? Last time I played he was usually a 1 or even 2 of in the main. Does esper mentor no longer need that ace against burn? Timely can get skullcracked so it seems sketchy to put all your lifegain on that card!
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Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
My decklist is post 227 - basically no discard but 4x myth realized 4x probe 4x bauble. I made one last minute change -1 snapcaster +1 darkblast
Went 2-1-1 at a 15 player event for 5th place.
Round 1: 2-1 win vs BW tokens
G1: Dealt 10 through 2 instant speed raise the alarms for lethal (negate, slaughter pact pumping myths and monks)
G2: I slow-roll my engineered explosives by which I mean he IoK's them on turn 3. He gets honor into many tokens. I alpha him with path+pact but his 1 blocker is all he needs to survive at 2 life.
G3: He has a slow start - 2 spectral processions but only 2 white sources. T4 he casts sorin instead of spectral, I swing all at sorin then negate the spectral gg.
Round 2: 1-2 vs GR tron (guy who won 1st)
G1: he mulls to 5. Pyroclasm wipes my monk+2 tokens (probe+bauble power) but I have 2 myth realized out and my negate on his o-stone seals the deal.
G2: he plays natural t3 tron karn on the play (no tutors)... after nature's claiming my t1 myth... rather than cast lingering souls and get owned by karn anyways I scoop.
G3: pyroclasms my mentor+token, then all is dusts my 2 myth realized and I'm left with a flashed back lingering souls vs a karn. I play it out but at 8 life and a 15 counter karn it was over.
Round 3: 1-1-1 vs UWR control
G1: Long slog, he gets me to 4 life with geist/burn and my own shocks but I have an 8/8, 7/7 and 3/3 myth realized and some tokens. He paths and snapcaster-bolt blocks bolting me to 1, then has 2 turns to draw another burn spell and draws it on the last turn
G2: even longer. I had to get him to blow path, anger, explosives. Luckily I drew slaughter pact and knew he had 2 resto angels - when he finally casts one I pact it and then surgical it to get rid of the 2nd one in his hand. He runs out of gas and I win with 3mins left on clock. Draw
Round 4: 2-0 vs WRu twin
G1: myth realized, lingering souls, then remand+leak+negate his attempts to twin. Crash in with 4/4 myths and 4 souls tokens for gg.
G2: I had negate+pact+disenchant+celestial purge... he tried to twin twice, once with negate backup, didnt matter. Tasigur+2 souls tokens get there through his dumb wall of omens x2. Played around blood moon but i dont think he had it anyways.
Myth realized was good. Maindeck negate was good. Snapcaster was weak. Darkblast mattered in 0 matchups so was a bad maindeck call tonight but still seems good for the deck (easy prowess/myth/monk trigger).
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Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
So I've turned the black into more of a splash and am now testing a more UWb list. Very early testing but its felt a lot better. Drawing more cards off bauble and probe seems more relevant than hitting opponent with discard and 0 cost means t3 mentor can be done with a straight face since we can get at least 1 prowess token out of it even if they have the bolt. And waiting to turn 4 can mean an easy 2 tokens even if tey have removal.
Round 2 vs BW tokens
I make a misplay on my inquisition taking dismember (I only have Tasigur as my only threat) instead of spectral procession, he plays the procession + an anthem enchantment and beats me down.
I'm pretty sure spectral procession counts as a 6cmc spell and you can't IoK it.
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Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
I have no issue with the midrange tag. Only the idea that midrange means "aggro plus control".
It might be a terrible control deck, but its utterly incapable of being an aggro deck in any way shape or form. Just call it esper midrange or esper mentor and leave it at that.
And I don't even know who the OP or mod is who would change it, nor does anyone but me probably really care, so I've said my piece and will leave it at that.
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* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
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As theres no authority to appeal to on the correct usage of magic terms (or slang) its a hard thing to debate to a meaningful conclusion.
Nobody disagrees that merfolk, zoo, and affinity are aggro decks. What makes them aggro? I'd say the fact they can consistently deal lethal on turn 4 if not disrupted and the plethora of creatures in the 1 and 2 cmc slots. If a deck isn't featuring components of either of those things what on earth would make it aggro?
Saying all decks must be aggro, control, or combo is pointless frankly. Nobody calls twin UR combo. Nobody calls GR tron GR control. Nobody calls burn RW aggro. There is no dilemma here of needing to classify a deck within these 3 archetypes - as you say, most decks cross/blur the boundaries between these anyways.
Frankly if I was forced to put this deck into those 3 categories it'd be esper control, period. The lack of wraths and cryptic command is kind of glaring for a control deck, but otherwise its mostly removal, counters, and discard with relatively few threats which is far more control style than aggro style.
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Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
Nobody calls abzan midrange "aggro control". The terms are not interchangable. If anything id expect aggro control to be a euphamism for tempo (small aggro creatures backed up by discard and/or counterspells)
I realize naming decks is its own challenge, but if a deck absolutely cannot win on turn 4 with any sequence, and its number of 1 and 2 drop creatures combined is 0-4, it not an aggro deck.
The deck is a hybrid of jeskai control, abzan midrange, and BW tokens. It has nothing in common whatsoever with zoo, affnity, stompy, merfolk, etc.
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Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
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There is nothing aggro about it... like... at all. Our 1 drop is... nothing or myth realized... our 2 drop is... snapcaster mage... our 3 drop is... lingering souls and a mentor that you never want to play on turn 3.
The fastest conceivable kill would be uh... turn 5 if we do t3 mentor into a craptonne of spells followed by a craptonne of spells?
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Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
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Just going to agree that vault of the archangel has been very underwhelming and even bad for me. You usually want your mana to trigger prowess, make monks, or hold up disruption. And 5 mana is kind of a lot.
I like having a shadow of doubt in the main. In addition to sniping fetchlands and tutors, it synergizes with path to exile.
One thing I am kind of surprised with is that there are no sweepers anywhere in the 75. This feels like a control deck and control decks usually want 1-2 verdicts. Was it tested and found wanting?
Also surgical extraction in the SB seems good. The lack of any graveyard hate was causing me trouble in reanimator and dredge matches (path snap path notwithstanding
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Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
a) abrupt decayed
b) path to exiled
c) murderous cut
d) supreme verdict
e) bolted (yeah yeah, you always have the instant speed cantrip and not a hand of inquisition+spell snare right?)
You can also just not draw a mentor. Now your win conditions are snapcaster mage, 1/1 spirit tokens, and 2x tasigurs. PS you have 2 hard counters and they only stop 2 mana spells :/
This really feels like a hybrid of abzan midrange, jeskai control, and BW tokens except the smashing together doesn't create any synergy worthy of the name.
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Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
I've been trying to make this deck work all morning on cockatrice and I'm like 1-12.... I just don't see how this deck ever wins. It does not have the permission suite to push fast decks into the mid/late game. It does not want a topdeck war anyways. And if it does get to the end our lategame is just much worse than any other real late game deck's. We're going for 1/1 tokens as our end game where twin is comboing out, tron is dropping 15/15s, real control decks are flashing angels while keeping cryptic open, and have access to bolt-snap-bolt etc etc.
The games where my mentor survived for more than 1 spells it was like "yes!" except then my opponent just does something 10x better. and/or I have nothing left to chain prowess with.
I'm so sad because I just got my 4th mentor assuming this deck would be awesome. I'm fine with needing time to perfect the finer points, but shouldn't I feel occasionally like I'm in the game? Instead of pretty much always feeling like a passenger on the highway to my own demise?
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* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
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Why no sorin, solemn visitor anymore? Last time I played he was usually a 1 or even 2 of in the main. Does esper mentor no longer need that ace against burn? Timely can get skullcracked so it seems sketchy to put all your lifegain on that card!
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
Went 2-1-1 at a 15 player event for 5th place.
Round 1: 2-1 win vs BW tokens
G1: Dealt 10 through 2 instant speed raise the alarms for lethal (negate, slaughter pact pumping myths and monks)
G2: I slow-roll my engineered explosives by which I mean he IoK's them on turn 3. He gets honor into many tokens. I alpha him with path+pact but his 1 blocker is all he needs to survive at 2 life.
G3: He has a slow start - 2 spectral processions but only 2 white sources. T4 he casts sorin instead of spectral, I swing all at sorin then negate the spectral gg.
Round 2: 1-2 vs GR tron (guy who won 1st)
G1: he mulls to 5. Pyroclasm wipes my monk+2 tokens (probe+bauble power) but I have 2 myth realized out and my negate on his o-stone seals the deal.
G2: he plays natural t3 tron karn on the play (no tutors)... after nature's claiming my t1 myth... rather than cast lingering souls and get owned by karn anyways I scoop.
G3: pyroclasms my mentor+token, then all is dusts my 2 myth realized and I'm left with a flashed back lingering souls vs a karn. I play it out but at 8 life and a 15 counter karn it was over.
Round 3: 1-1-1 vs UWR control
G1: Long slog, he gets me to 4 life with geist/burn and my own shocks but I have an 8/8, 7/7 and 3/3 myth realized and some tokens. He paths and snapcaster-bolt blocks bolting me to 1, then has 2 turns to draw another burn spell and draws it on the last turn
G2: even longer. I had to get him to blow path, anger, explosives. Luckily I drew slaughter pact and knew he had 2 resto angels - when he finally casts one I pact it and then surgical it to get rid of the 2nd one in his hand. He runs out of gas and I win with 3mins left on clock. Draw
Round 4: 2-0 vs WRu twin
G1: myth realized, lingering souls, then remand+leak+negate his attempts to twin. Crash in with 4/4 myths and 4 souls tokens for gg.
G2: I had negate+pact+disenchant+celestial purge... he tried to twin twice, once with negate backup, didnt matter. Tasigur+2 souls tokens get there through his dumb wall of omens x2. Played around blood moon but i dont think he had it anyways.
Myth realized was good. Maindeck negate was good. Snapcaster was weak. Darkblast mattered in 0 matchups so was a bad maindeck call tonight but still seems good for the deck (easy prowess/myth/monk trigger).
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
4 myth realized
4 monastery mentor
4 lingering souls
2 tasigur, the golden fang
2 snapcaster mage
Cycling (12)
4 mishra's bauble
4 gitaxian probe
4 thought scour
Disruption (11)
2 path to exile
2 murderous cut
1 slaughter pact
2 mana leak
2 negate
1 remand
1 spell snare
4 polluted delta
2 marsh flats
2 flooded strand
2 hallowed fountain
1 watery grave
1 godless shrine
2 plains
2 island
2 swamp
2 seachrome coast
1 ghost quarter
4 timely reinforcements
2 engineered explosives
2 celestial purge
2 disenchant
2 surgical extraction
1 nihil spellbomb
1 hibernation
1 torpor orb
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
I'm pretty sure spectral procession counts as a 6cmc spell and you can't IoK it.
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
It might be a terrible control deck, but its utterly incapable of being an aggro deck in any way shape or form. Just call it esper midrange or esper mentor and leave it at that.
And I don't even know who the OP or mod is who would change it, nor does anyone but me probably really care, so I've said my piece and will leave it at that.
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
Nobody disagrees that merfolk, zoo, and affinity are aggro decks. What makes them aggro? I'd say the fact they can consistently deal lethal on turn 4 if not disrupted and the plethora of creatures in the 1 and 2 cmc slots. If a deck isn't featuring components of either of those things what on earth would make it aggro?
Saying all decks must be aggro, control, or combo is pointless frankly. Nobody calls twin UR combo. Nobody calls GR tron GR control. Nobody calls burn RW aggro. There is no dilemma here of needing to classify a deck within these 3 archetypes - as you say, most decks cross/blur the boundaries between these anyways.
Frankly if I was forced to put this deck into those 3 categories it'd be esper control, period. The lack of wraths and cryptic command is kind of glaring for a control deck, but otherwise its mostly removal, counters, and discard with relatively few threats which is far more control style than aggro style.
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
I realize naming decks is its own challenge, but if a deck absolutely cannot win on turn 4 with any sequence, and its number of 1 and 2 drop creatures combined is 0-4, it not an aggro deck.
The deck is a hybrid of jeskai control, abzan midrange, and BW tokens. It has nothing in common whatsoever with zoo, affnity, stompy, merfolk, etc.
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
There is nothing aggro about it... like... at all. Our 1 drop is... nothing or myth realized... our 2 drop is... snapcaster mage... our 3 drop is... lingering souls and a mentor that you never want to play on turn 3.
The fastest conceivable kill would be uh... turn 5 if we do t3 mentor into a craptonne of spells followed by a craptonne of spells?
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
I like having a shadow of doubt in the main. In addition to sniping fetchlands and tutors, it synergizes with path to exile.
One thing I am kind of surprised with is that there are no sweepers anywhere in the 75. This feels like a control deck and control decks usually want 1-2 verdicts. Was it tested and found wanting?
Also surgical extraction in the SB seems good. The lack of any graveyard hate was causing me trouble in reanimator and dredge matches (path snap path notwithstanding
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
a) abrupt decayed
b) path to exiled
c) murderous cut
d) supreme verdict
e) bolted (yeah yeah, you always have the instant speed cantrip and not a hand of inquisition+spell snare right?)
You can also just not draw a mentor. Now your win conditions are snapcaster mage, 1/1 spirit tokens, and 2x tasigurs. PS you have 2 hard counters and they only stop 2 mana spells :/
This really feels like a hybrid of abzan midrange, jeskai control, and BW tokens except the smashing together doesn't create any synergy worthy of the name.
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
The games where my mentor survived for more than 1 spells it was like "yes!" except then my opponent just does something 10x better. and/or I have nothing left to chain prowess with.
I'm so sad because I just got my 4th mentor assuming this deck would be awesome. I'm fine with needing time to perfect the finer points, but shouldn't I feel occasionally like I'm in the game? Instead of pretty much always feeling like a passenger on the highway to my own demise?
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron