Thanks, Cody_X. I'd like to encourage anyone with an interest in the BW Superfriends deck discussed over the past few posts to come comment on the other thread.
That deck is playing out as a disruptive, controlly BW Midrange/Control shell with resilient and difficult-to-remove threats that seems to be very good against a wide meta. Because the threats are non-creature permanents, I can run several maindeck sweepers, improving go-wide aggro pairings when compared my my previous BW experiments. The deck is still soft to Valakut builds though.
My overall record across all versions of the walkers deck currently stands at 35-15-1. I started playing it at the beginning of October when the new planeswalker rule took effect. I only play on paper, in a pretty competitive LGS scene that regularly fields 30+ players per event on Mondays and Fridays.
Thanks for looking, and for your feedback. The deck has really been crushing my shop, which hosts a large and skilled player base with a diverse meta. Not really sure I know where the line between control and midrange falls, here.
I've thought about more fetches, might add some in place for shocks. The Caves are a little experiment. They are for live draws of a fourth land, because I have lost games a few times due to a topdecked Vent or Courtyard while holding a Wrath effect. But last night I also pinged myself a lot with one and wasn't too psyched about it, so I'm thinking only one. Maybe. There's no room for more basics if I want 14 T1 sources of B and also 19 T3 sources of both BB and WW, which I do want for consistency.
LtLH has consistently been challenged but I am still not convinced she should go. She threatens on a different axis and her plus not only kills little guys, it also fogs bigger guys. Meanwhile, she demands attention because an opponent cannot afford to let her ult. I'm pretty sure this deck wants as many walkers as possible, and they are definitely better at 3 CMC than 4. If I do swap her out it would probably be for a Sorin, Solemn Visitor who is pretty bad on an empty board, but very good with flying tokens. I'm pretty sure I don't want 4 LotV.
Moon and Bridge are tough to deal with G1 for sure, other than through discard or possibly a LotV ult. OTOH BGx has threats that are much softer than ours, and is weak to graveyard hate, where BW Superfriends doesn't care about that. There's always gonna be a tradeoff.
I played DGA as my second deck in Modern a couple years ago. Never really got over the Orzhov bug, but have been trying some different angles for quite a while. Right now I'm on a BW Superfriends build I cooked up, and it has been surprisingly good--it's the second link in my sig if any are interested in a different angle on BW Midrange in Modern.
Jötun Grunt seems pretty good to me in a build with Restoration Angel. The way the upkeep counters work is that you have to take cards out of yards in pairs, but you can take a pair from any yard. So with two counters you could hit your own yard for two cards and your opponent's for two more. Grunt is obviously very good against Mill, Storm, Shadow decks, and Lantern Control, but it's pretty bad against decks that aren't putting their own cards into the yard--decks like Merfolk, Elves, Eldrazi Tron, etc. The list I whipped together for *****s and giggles is below:
I played DGA for months back in the day and it was always a problem to find the right 2 drop for the build. Looter Scooter seems like it might be the right fit--it's a decent clock in the air, and the added filtering should be extremely relevant. Playing it out on T2 followed by just about anything on T3 seems real good. I don't think I'd run four, just because it can't crew itself, though.
The deck idea above is trying to maximize value from micro-synergies like that between Resto/Grunt (reset counters), Resto/Inspector, Resto/Splicer, Splicer/Mutavault, Mutavault/Copter, and Copter/Grunt (play Grunt out one turn later, feed the graveyard with Copter to keep him around longer). Having played 4x maindeck Relic of Progenitus for many, many months now I can say unequivocally that maindeck graveyard hate is amazing. Grunt is not a great card, but it is hella fun to screw around with and the combination of Resto and Copter might be just what it needs to be a real thing. The curve looks great on paper, but six 4-drops might be a little heavy for Bob. Might be better to drop one for something else. Could also go 2x Thoughtseize/4x IoK, but I am not a huge fan of Inquisition in general. I expect I'd be fetching primarily for basics with this list to help conserve life.
Back when I played this deck I was on the Ghost Quarter/Vault of the Archangel plan, but Mutavault seems like it is better overall, currently. However GQ is extremely relevant against UW Control and Affinity, both serious players in the meta right now. I also played Sorin and/or LotV at times, but baby Elspeth seems good too.
It cracks me up to see this build cycle back to Resto/Splicer, awesome to read this thread. Makes me want to go back on the no-Eldrazi train... Iä! Iä! Cthulhu fhtagn! Sorryy, nvm
FWIW I am going to be trying out the BW Midrange Eldrazi Processor deck some more. It really didn't lose too much with Eye banned; actually in some respects it got better, because there are now no lands that are useless for casting the non-Eldrazi cards. If Temple had been banned the deck would be dead, but as it is it still feels like the best BW Midrange deck I have played.
It's got big powerful creatures, lots o' tokens, a ton of disruption (Thought-Knot Seer!), and a good amount of removal. And it's well positioned against both of the new cards, with many Processors, loads of maindeck graveyard hate, and the Souls tokens for Thopters. Anguished Unmaking will be a 2-3 of in my 75. Three maindeck Ghost Quarters (in my version) help the Tron, Affinity, and Infect match ups while also dealing with random manlands/Wolf Runs/Townships etc.
On Monday I lost to 8-Whack, stared down Grixis Delver across a huge stagnant board state (Vault of the Archangel FTW!), and utterly demolished Jund. Fast aggro continues to be a tough match for my BW midrange builds.
Good luck everyone, thanks for all the positive support on the forum. I'll be checking back in every so often, to see how things are shaping up.
Thanks for the help, orion0051. I thought I showed I understood the interaction when I noted that the opponent gets to choose which effect occurs.
Personally, I think Sorin IV is too slow for Modern, at least in my setup. He doesn't have a +2, only a +1, so his ultimate will be very late game indeed, and his -X doesn't seem worth 6 mana to me. Even his +1 is underwhelming in a deck with a 40% land count and a low overall curve. He could be good for late-game reach, but for now I'm not sold.
Kalitas and white do not actually seem to be a good pairing to me. Exile effects like Path, Sculler, O Ring, and now Anguished Unmaking are all doing something different than what he wants. However except for Sculler those spells all work very well with Abyssal Persecutor.
I am having more luck testing Kalitas in a mono-B shell with Gatekeper of Malakir, Lili, and effects like Victim of Night, Darkblast, Dismamber, Drown in Sorrow, etc. I have also seen him used to good effect in a Grixis shell running Snapcaster, Bolt, and Kolaghan's Command.
3-1 last night in a field of ~40. Went 2-0 in each of my first three matches, against a Temur midrange homebrew and two UG Infect decks. (Wow, is Infect an easy matchup for this build. Affinity too.) Lost 1-2 to a WURb Kiki/Resto build, misplayed and tapped out G2 and then drew badly all game G3 and lost to his P&KN and Souls tokens.
I wasn't sold on Kalitas and went back to a Persecutor build for a second go 'round. Here is the deck I played:
I would have won the last match if I hadn't tapped out in G2, allowing the combo; and then I lost to his tokens in G3. I am going to drop one Victim of Night for one Zealous Persecution main to help with tokens, Bob, Pyromancer, and the like.
I sure do love me some Abyssal Persecutor. That card is a house, and now with Ayli we have more ways to get rid of him, including for lifegain in response to an opponent's removal. Sea Gate Wreckage drew me several cards last night and is definitely staying unless I make some other major changes. With seven other C lands it seems likely to be reasonably reliable in the late game, when I want it.
Well to be honest, I have to credit MTGS user kevinsera for this idea. He suggested it to me a day or two ago.
We were both on the BW Eldrazi Processor midrange train, and met on that thread in January, but we both gave it up after the OGW Pro Tour debacle. I kinda feel like nobody I really want to play with or against is actually playing the current Eldrazi builds. Those decks feel like they have no integrity, because they are so obviously broken. It's not who I want to be as a Magic player. But if Wizards were to sanction Mimic, TKS, and Reality Smasher, instead of the mana base, I would seriously consider going back to the deck. It was a fun and powerful, but not overpowered, build.
! went 3-1-1 today at FNM modern, losing 2-0 to a Grixis Midrange deck with no counters (!!!), tied RG Tron 1-1-1, and beating Dredgevine, Affinity, and UG Infect, all 2-1. All five 45 minute matches went to turns.
I have not been getting value out of Kalitas. My Grixis opponent sure did, but I do not have enough removal (nor with Path do I have the right kind of removal), to make him shine. Without a heavy buy-in to targeted kill spells I do not think he is the right answer for this build, at least in the current angle I have been pursuing. I played him as a 2-of tonight and have been testing on cockatrice as a 3-of for a few days.
I think there may be a heavy removal build that makes Kalitas work. I also think there may be a heavy removal/Ayli/Abyssal Persecutoer build that might work. There may be a heavy discard build with Lili, Pack Rat, and maybe Madness cards that could work. I do not think I've quite hit upon it yet.
Thinking about running Sculler alongside Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim with the idea of saccing it in response to the ETB trigger for permanent exile. I'll report back.
Confidant, Thoughtseize, fetches and shocks are bad for the life total, for sure. Shambling Vent helps, as do Kalitas, Sorin III, and Vault of the Archangel. I actually think Auriok Champion is pretty good in this build; I am liking my one-of a lot in testing.
I am thinking that maybe Kalitas synergizes well with Sorins II and III and Bloodghast in a midrange shell. Auriok Champion is very good with token makers and free graveyard recurrence. Sculler and Strangler are actually hitting a lot for me in my testing and I would kind of hate to see them go, especially since Sculler is great fodder for Kalitas if it missed when cast, or after Strangler has processed its target. Strangler is unusual because it hits Etched Champion and also dodges Apostle's Blessing.
Maybe Liliana, as good as she is, could be better replaced by more creatures to keep the direct pressure on, going less control and more aggro. Just spitballing here, but what about:
This could be too many 4-drops for Bob, though lifegain options are up a lot here. Elspeth is amazing with Vent, as has been mentioned on this thread before, and she would also obviously kill it with Kalitas, and with Sorin II's tokens, which have lifelink but not flying.
The mana base is stretched with the demanding BW, BB, and WW needs. Urborg would help a little with this, and also allows saving a fetch aside for Bloodghast as needed.
In play testing, I don't like the nonbo between Path and Kalitas. If the lifegain options are strong enough and Kalitas becomes a major driver in this build, maybe Dismember becomes a better play all around. Victim of Night has been dead for me a few times now that Kalitas is a thing, and I think that may need to go as well.
I have been on BW Eldrazi Processor but am starting to look ahead to the inevitable upcoming… demise of that deck. My Modern card pool is kind of limited (though not in Orzhov fortunately) so I was all kinds of psyched about the early BFZ processor builds, but then the PT happened. It's too bad that the pushed C cards from Oath are going to kill the cool (and appropriately powered) Processor builds in Modern, but hey, them's the breaks.
I am thinking about trying this out as soon as the Ayli's arrive, any thoughts? Pack Rat--my original reason to get into this build type--consistently felt weak and it got sided out a lot. It was great about one game in seven or eight that I played it, but more often it felt slow, underpowered, and vulnerable. I especially didn't like how a single kill spell nerfed the whole horde. However, it did help with late game dead draws, and I think without it the 1 CMC discard spells have to get cut lower than previously, because they are such a terrible late-game topdeck. I also really liked Percy (a "man's card," as I once heard him described), so I'm gonna try him as a one-of for a while.
Will post up when I try it out but it may be a while. Looking at Kalitas, I wonder if there is practical synergy with Gravecrawler. I also never thought about the Madness mechanic with Pack Rat. (I really wanna like Pack Rat.) Got a few Big Game Hunters on the way just in case that ability picks up steam.
[EDIT]: Just found out that Leyline is a nonbo with Kalitas because the opponent gets to choose which exile effect occurs. Rest in Peace would work the same way. So I will play the above list with 3 Relic of Progenitus instead of the Leylines, as my SB graveyard hate. I might also replace 1-2 Path to Exile with Dismembers, especially if I try Kalitas as a 3-of, as I am thinking I may do.
So if anyone maybe hasn't heard yet, there is a new Bx/BW midrange Eldrazi ramp build blowing up. It ditches the heavy discard approach for graveyard/exile shenanigans, getting card advantage with Relic of Progenitus which powers the Eldrazi Processors Wasteland Strangler and Blight Herder. In terms of accessibility, none of the creatures are super expensive to buy into, except for a 1-2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger. Unfortunately it is too late to get in on the other half of the mana base for cheap. But it still isn't a prohibitively expensive buy-in (though opinions may vary), especially if you happen to have a handful of Eye of Ugins lying around. The majority of the mana base, Lingering Souls, IoK/Thoughtseize, Paths, black removal, and much of the sideboard all swaps right over.
That deck is playing out as a disruptive, controlly BW Midrange/Control shell with resilient and difficult-to-remove threats that seems to be very good against a wide meta. Because the threats are non-creature permanents, I can run several maindeck sweepers, improving go-wide aggro pairings when compared my my previous BW experiments. The deck is still soft to Valakut builds though.
My overall record across all versions of the walkers deck currently stands at 35-15-1. I started playing it at the beginning of October when the new planeswalker rule took effect. I only play on paper, in a pretty competitive LGS scene that regularly fields 30+ players per event on Mondays and Fridays.
I've thought about more fetches, might add some in place for shocks. The Caves are a little experiment. They are for live draws of a fourth land, because I have lost games a few times due to a topdecked Vent or Courtyard while holding a Wrath effect. But last night I also pinged myself a lot with one and wasn't too psyched about it, so I'm thinking only one. Maybe. There's no room for more basics if I want 14 T1 sources of B and also 19 T3 sources of both BB and WW, which I do want for consistency.
LtLH has consistently been challenged but I am still not convinced she should go. She threatens on a different axis and her plus not only kills little guys, it also fogs bigger guys. Meanwhile, she demands attention because an opponent cannot afford to let her ult. I'm pretty sure this deck wants as many walkers as possible, and they are definitely better at 3 CMC than 4. If I do swap her out it would probably be for a Sorin, Solemn Visitor who is pretty bad on an empty board, but very good with flying tokens. I'm pretty sure I don't want 4 LotV.
Moon and Bridge are tough to deal with G1 for sure, other than through discard or possibly a LotV ult. OTOH BGx has threats that are much softer than ours, and is weak to graveyard hate, where BW Superfriends doesn't care about that. There's always gonna be a tradeoff.
Cheers to all.
4x Concealed Courtyard
4x Marsh Flats
4x Mutavualt
3x Shambling Vent
3x Godless Shrine
3x Swamp
2x Plains
Creatures (14)
4x Dark Confidant
4x Restoration Angel
3x Blade Splicer
2x Jötun Grunt
1x Thraben Inspector
3x Smuggler's Copter
Sorcery (8)
4x Lingering Souls
3x Thoughtseize
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
1x Collective Brutality
Instant (7)
4x Path to Exile
2x Fatal Push
1x Anguished Unmaking
Planeswalker (2)
2x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
3x Stony Silence
2x Damnation
2x Ratchet Bomb
2x Nihil Spellbomb
2x Blessed Alliance
1x Anguished Unmaking
1x Collective Brutality
1x Thoughtseize
1x Grafdigger's Cage
The deck idea above is trying to maximize value from micro-synergies like that between Resto/Grunt (reset counters), Resto/Inspector, Resto/Splicer, Splicer/Mutavault, Mutavault/Copter, and Copter/Grunt (play Grunt out one turn later, feed the graveyard with Copter to keep him around longer). Having played 4x maindeck Relic of Progenitus for many, many months now I can say unequivocally that maindeck graveyard hate is amazing. Grunt is not a great card, but it is hella fun to screw around with and the combination of Resto and Copter might be just what it needs to be a real thing. The curve looks great on paper, but six 4-drops might be a little heavy for Bob. Might be better to drop one for something else. Could also go 2x Thoughtseize/4x IoK, but I am not a huge fan of Inquisition in general. I expect I'd be fetching primarily for basics with this list to help conserve life.
Back when I played this deck I was on the Ghost Quarter/Vault of the Archangel plan, but Mutavault seems like it is better overall, currently. However GQ is extremely relevant against UW Control and Affinity, both serious players in the meta right now. I also played Sorin and/or LotV at times, but baby Elspeth seems good too.
Anyway I have two words for you all: Jötun Grunt.
It's got big powerful creatures, lots o' tokens, a ton of disruption (Thought-Knot Seer!), and a good amount of removal. And it's well positioned against both of the new cards, with many Processors, loads of maindeck graveyard hate, and the Souls tokens for Thopters. Anguished Unmaking will be a 2-3 of in my 75. Three maindeck Ghost Quarters (in my version) help the Tron, Affinity, and Infect match ups while also dealing with random manlands/Wolf Runs/Townships etc.
On Monday I lost to 8-Whack, stared down Grixis Delver across a huge stagnant board state (Vault of the Archangel FTW!), and utterly demolished Jund. Fast aggro continues to be a tough match for my BW midrange builds.
Good luck everyone, thanks for all the positive support on the forum. I'll be checking back in every so often, to see how things are shaping up.
Personally, I think Sorin IV is too slow for Modern, at least in my setup. He doesn't have a +2, only a +1, so his ultimate will be very late game indeed, and his -X doesn't seem worth 6 mana to me. Even his +1 is underwhelming in a deck with a 40% land count and a low overall curve. He could be good for late-game reach, but for now I'm not sold.
I am having more luck testing Kalitas in a mono-B shell with Gatekeper of Malakir, Lili, and effects like Victim of Night, Darkblast, Dismamber, Drown in Sorrow, etc. I have also seen him used to good effect in a Grixis shell running Snapcaster, Bolt, and Kolaghan's Command.
I wasn't sold on Kalitas and went back to a Persecutor build for a second go 'round. Here is the deck I played:
4 Marsh Flats
4 Godless Shrine
3 Ghost Quarter
3 Shambling Vent
2 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Caves of Koilos
1 Fetid Heath
1 Miren, the Moaning Well
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Vault of the Archangel
Creatures (15)
3 Abyssal Persecutor
3 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Auriok Champion
2 Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim
2 Dark Confidant
2 Wasteland Strangler
1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Sorceries (9)
4 Lingering Souls
3 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
Instants (7)
4 Path to Exile
2 Victim of Night
1 Go for the Throat
Enchantment (1)
1 Oblivion RIng
3 Leyline of the Void
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Damnation
2 Disenchant
2 Stony Silence
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Ratchet Bomb
I sure do love me some Abyssal Persecutor. That card is a house, and now with Ayli we have more ways to get rid of him, including for lifegain in response to an opponent's removal. Sea Gate Wreckage drew me several cards last night and is definitely staying unless I make some other major changes. With seven other C lands it seems likely to be reasonably reliable in the late game, when I want it.
We were both on the BW Eldrazi Processor midrange train, and met on that thread in January, but we both gave it up after the OGW Pro Tour debacle. I kinda feel like nobody I really want to play with or against is actually playing the current Eldrazi builds. Those decks feel like they have no integrity, because they are so obviously broken. It's not who I want to be as a Magic player. But if Wizards were to sanction Mimic, TKS, and Reality Smasher, instead of the mana base, I would seriously consider going back to the deck. It was a fun and powerful, but not overpowered, build.
! went 3-1-1 today at FNM modern, losing 2-0 to a Grixis Midrange deck with no counters (!!!), tied RG Tron 1-1-1, and beating Dredgevine, Affinity, and UG Infect, all 2-1. All five 45 minute matches went to turns.
I have not been getting value out of Kalitas. My Grixis opponent sure did, but I do not have enough removal (nor with Path do I have the right kind of removal), to make him shine. Without a heavy buy-in to targeted kill spells I do not think he is the right answer for this build, at least in the current angle I have been pursuing. I played him as a 2-of tonight and have been testing on cockatrice as a 3-of for a few days.
I think there may be a heavy removal build that makes Kalitas work. I also think there may be a heavy removal/Ayli/Abyssal Persecutoer build that might work. There may be a heavy discard build with Lili, Pack Rat, and maybe Madness cards that could work. I do not think I've quite hit upon it yet.
I am thinking that maybe Kalitas synergizes well with Sorins II and III and Bloodghast in a midrange shell. Auriok Champion is very good with token makers and free graveyard recurrence. Sculler and Strangler are actually hitting a lot for me in my testing and I would kind of hate to see them go, especially since Sculler is great fodder for Kalitas if it missed when cast, or after Strangler has processed its target. Strangler is unusual because it hits Etched Champion and also dodges Apostle's Blessing.
Maybe Liliana, as good as she is, could be better replaced by more creatures to keep the direct pressure on, going less control and more aggro. Just spitballing here, but what about:
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Godless Shrine
4 Marsh Flats
4 Shambling Vent
2 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Caves of Koilos
1 Fetid Heath
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Vault of the Archangel
4 Dark Confidant
3 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
3 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Wasteland Strangler
2 Auriok Champion
2 Bloodghast
Planeswalkers (3):
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Lingering Souls
3 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
Instant (7):
3 Path to Exile
2 Go for the Throat
2 Dismember
The mana base is stretched with the demanding BW, BB, and WW needs. Urborg would help a little with this, and also allows saving a fetch aside for Bloodghast as needed.
In play testing, I don't like the nonbo between Path and Kalitas. If the lifegain options are strong enough and Kalitas becomes a major driver in this build, maybe Dismember becomes a better play all around. Victim of Night has been dead for me a few times now that Kalitas is a thing, and I think that may need to go as well.
I have been on BW Eldrazi Processor but am starting to look ahead to the inevitable upcoming… demise of that deck. My Modern card pool is kind of limited (though not in Orzhov fortunately) so I was all kinds of psyched about the early BFZ processor builds, but then the PT happened. It's too bad that the pushed C cards from Oath are going to kill the cool (and appropriately powered) Processor builds in Modern, but hey, them's the breaks.
I am thinking about trying this out as soon as the Ayli's arrive, any thoughts? Pack Rat--my original reason to get into this build type--consistently felt weak and it got sided out a lot. It was great about one game in seven or eight that I played it, but more often it felt slow, underpowered, and vulnerable. I especially didn't like how a single kill spell nerfed the whole horde. However, it did help with late game dead draws, and I think without it the 1 CMC discard spells have to get cut lower than previously, because they are such a terrible late-game topdeck. I also really liked Percy (a "man's card," as I once heard him described), so I'm gonna try him as a one-of for a while.
1 Caves of Koilos
1 Fetid Heath
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Plains
3 Swamp
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Godless Shrine
4 Marsh Flats
4 Shambling Vent
Creature (15)
1 Auriok Champion
1 Abyssal Persecutor
1 Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
3 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Dark Confidant
2 Go for the Throat
2 Victim of Night
4 Path to Exile
Sorcery (9)
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 Lingering Souls
Planeswalker (4)
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Damnation
2 Disenchant
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Pithing Needle
2 Spellskite
2 Stony Silence
3 Leyline of the Void
[EDIT]: Just found out that Leyline is a nonbo with Kalitas because the opponent gets to choose which exile effect occurs. Rest in Peace would work the same way. So I will play the above list with 3 Relic of Progenitus instead of the Leylines, as my SB graveyard hate. I might also replace 1-2 Path to Exile with Dismembers, especially if I try Kalitas as a 3-of, as I am thinking I may do.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/651774-bx-eldrazi-processors
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/651723-bw-eldrazi-processor
Anyway, I have been trying it out and it is a hoot (see what I did there?). I think it is a real thing and will have legs.