1. After testing, I felt that 3 is the right number. You want to see them early, but don't always have cards in your hand you want to pitch for its effect. It's a gamble, especially if they have an answer. Even just 2 works if you want to utilize it as a finisher.
2. I had considered 3, but 2 is fine because of my other threats. Good reasoning.
3. They do not have protection but are protected via hand disruption, which includes Sculler. These particular threats do not excel as well without Black, but are practically finishers here if the opponent has no answers. I even tested Master of the Feast and Desecration Demon. Wow. That's all I have to say. With Feast, you just want to maximize hand disruption because of its downside.
4. Don't let its cmc distract you. It's playable, instant speed, and versatile.
5. I agree. I may swap 1 card out in my board for Wrath of God. It's a viable option, especially since we recover with Souls.
6. For Hexproof, we need to maximize hand disruption and sweepers. It's not an easy match up but not one that shows up often.
7. Bob can be replaced with Sign in Blood/Night's Whisper. You can go with Arena, but we're already crammed at the 3 cmc. Like I said, 3-4 Sign in Blood is nice. You can even go 2-3/1 Sign in Blood/Phyrexian Arena.
Your list looks awesome. Really. This is definitely the direction to go. It's very versatile and can attack from multiple angles. You're right; it is like a budget Rock. The only recommendations I have right now is considering Smother and Utter End. Utter End was strong in my 7-1 result. Smother hits all the important stuff and manlands too. I really like Blood Baron here too. What do you think of my list?
Congrats on the 7-1! Is there a reason you're not using bobs? Have you found the deck to be smoother with sign in blood in his place? Did you ever get mana screwed with the BB and WW?
I'm not running Bob first and foremost because I haven't been able to afford them, so I designed my deck to generate more power at the higher end of the curve. Because of the higher curve, Bob isn't as ideal. Sign in Blood at 3 has felt just right. 3 is enough because we're midrange and to smooth out your draws, while tying the deck together. I've had no issues with mana. It can also be used as a surprise burn spell to finish off an opponent. Nice top deck when all you need is 2 more damage to win. Only other land I'd consider is Fetid Heath or 1-2 more fetches. Thank you!
This list is for those who want to expiriment with different viable options. Enjoy brewing!
Hooray you! I just starting building a deck for BW Midrange, and I'm assuming you just saved me a bunch of research and trolling through cards
Cheers mate!
That I have. You're very welcome. Mix and match, bud. Enjoy your deck building process. I'm sure this compiled list of the best options we have available for BW will come in handy for others, too.
There are 12 3-drops in Elenar's list, and Pack Rat effectively makes it 16. I'm going to say again that I feel like this deck has too many 3-drops.
That aside, this deck looks pretty interesting. It seems like a good alternative for people who don't want to shell out for Goyfs or just want a competitive black midrange deck that does something different than BGx.
Could you elaborate on what makes a large number of 3 drops bad? The majority of the best BW options are 3 drops (pack rat, Liliana, Brimaz, Lingering souls, fulminator, kitchen finks, phyrexian arena, blade splicer). In a few cases (brimaz and Liliana come to mind) their best attributes are the low 3 cmc. Our 4 cmc and greaterSols are limited to Elspeth, sorin, resto angel, hero of bladehold, batterskull, phyrexian obliterator, and baneslayer angel. All of which are powerful, but not the kind of card you run as a 4x (a hand full of batterkulls would not be great, and flipping them off a bob would be even worse). If you mean the curve is too high, we have no choice. Comparing to jund (and including scooz as a 3 drop), they sit at 12. The 4 goyfs make 16. There's no replacement to Goyf (as the $200 price tag indicates), so I feel this deck is as equivalent as it gets.
I couldn't have said it better. By the way, add Desecration Demon to the list of powerful 4 drops. This guy has been stellar in testing. I'm surprised because most Standard cards don't translate as well into Modern.
My deck is on the previous page, but I'll repost it. I've made some adjustments, but the core of the deck is performing very well. See results above: 14-6
HI, don't know if you still want advice? Your deck will do very bad against pod and twin. I won't disect your deck but you want 8 maindeck removal, 25 lands,4 pPack Rat and 4 Lingering Souls.
Thanks for the advice. I did lose to Pod tonight, ironically. That puts me at 1 and 1 vs Pod. I definitely want that 8th removal. The 25th land would help with my curve and 4 Lingering Souls is probably where I want to be. Thanks.
The curve in my deck is higher than typical BW/BG decks, so Dark Confidant would not work as well here. May opt for Sign in Blood or Phyrexian Arena.
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1. After testing, I felt that 3 is the right number. You want to see them early, but don't always have cards in your hand you want to pitch for its effect. It's a gamble, especially if they have an answer. Even just 2 works if you want to utilize it as a finisher.
2. I had considered 3, but 2 is fine because of my other threats. Good reasoning.
3. They do not have protection but are protected via hand disruption, which includes Sculler. These particular threats do not excel as well without Black, but are practically finishers here if the opponent has no answers. I even tested Master of the Feast and Desecration Demon. Wow. That's all I have to say. With Feast, you just want to maximize hand disruption because of its downside.
4. Don't let its cmc distract you. It's playable, instant speed, and versatile.
5. I agree. I may swap 1 card out in my board for Wrath of God. It's a viable option, especially since we recover with Souls.
6. For Hexproof, we need to maximize hand disruption and sweepers. It's not an easy match up but not one that shows up often.
7. Bob can be replaced with Sign in Blood/Night's Whisper. You can go with Arena, but we're already crammed at the 3 cmc. Like I said, 3-4 Sign in Blood is nice. You can even go 2-3/1 Sign in Blood/Phyrexian Arena.
I hope this helps.
I'm not running Bob first and foremost because I haven't been able to afford them, so I designed my deck to generate more power at the higher end of the curve. Because of the higher curve, Bob isn't as ideal. Sign in Blood at 3 has felt just right. 3 is enough because we're midrange and to smooth out your draws, while tying the deck together. I've had no issues with mana. It can also be used as a surprise burn spell to finish off an opponent. Nice top deck when all you need is 2 more damage to win. Only other land I'd consider is Fetid Heath or 1-2 more fetches. Thank you!
2 Baneslayer Angel
2 Hero of Bladehold
2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
3 Pack Rat
3 Tidehollow Sculler
Planeswalkers: 4
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
2 Liliana of the Veil
Spells: 21
3 Sign in Blood
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 Path to Exile
2 Smother
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Utter End
4 Lingering Souls
4 Marsh Flats
4 Godless Shrine
3 Isolated Chapel
3 Plains
3 Swamp
3 Mutavault
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Ghost Quarter
3 Auriok Champion
3 Fulminator Mage
2 Stony Silence
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Utter End
1 Celestial Purge
1 Thoughtseize
1 Disenchant
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Stain the Mind
It took several by surprise. Nice prize for coming in 1st! A playset of allied fetchlands of my choice.
Round 1:
Vs Abzan Pod: 2-1
Round 2:
Vs UW Tron: 2-0
Round 3:
Vs Scapeshift: 2-1
Round 4:
Vs Mono Red: 2-1
Round 5:
Vs Junk: 1-2
Top 8:
Round 1:
Vs Jund: 2-1
Round 2:
Vs UWR Flash: 2-0
Final Round:
Vs Affinity: 2-0
That I have. You're very welcome. Mix and match, bud. Enjoy your deck building process. I'm sure this compiled list of the best options we have available for BW will come in handy for others, too.
Honorable Mentions: Precinct Captain/Nantuko Shade
3:
Honorable Mentions: Vampire Nighthawk/Aven Mindcensor
4:
Honorable Mentions: Emeria Angel/Linvala, Keeper of Silence
5:
Honorable Mentions: Divinity of the Pride/Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
This list is for those who want to expiriment with different viable options. Enjoy brewing!
I couldn't have said it better. By the way, add Desecration Demon to the list of powerful 4 drops. This guy has been stellar in testing. I'm surprised because most Standard cards don't translate as well into Modern.
Update:
Yin Yang: 25-12
2 Baneslayer Angel
2 Desecration Demon
2 Hero of Bladehold
2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
3 Pack Rat
3 Tidehollow Sculler
Planeswalkers: 2
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Spells: 20
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 Path to Exile
2 Darkblast
1 Smother
1 Utter End
2 Runed Halo
4 Lingering Souls
4 Marsh Flats
4 Godless Shrine
3 Isolated Chapel
3 Plains
3 Swamp
2 Fetid Heath
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Mutavault
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Celestial Purge
1 Disenchant
2 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
3 Fulminator Mage
2 Stony Silence
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Wrath of God
I really like your list, especially the Fulminator/Light and Shadow interaction. I'd move Runed to sb and run Liliana main.
Thanks for the advice. I did lose to Pod tonight, ironically. That puts me at 1 and 1 vs Pod. I definitely want that 8th removal. The 25th land would help with my curve and 4 Lingering Souls is probably where I want to be. Thanks.
The curve in my deck is higher than typical BW/BG decks, so Dark Confidant would not work as well here. May opt for Sign in Blood or Phyrexian Arena.