What I noticed btw on some streams is the expectation/reality of more Jace was apparently causing Jund to play less Kolaghan and more Maelstrom Pulse. On plus side that doesn't create 2 for 1 blowouts but that can kill any of the walkers you have out.
Kitchen finks I suppose makes sense, just feels kind of bad to have to use in DGA. Solid protector of the planeswalkers though. Although bob starts to become liability with so many high CC cards in deck.
So many issues a simple turn 3 Batterskull could have fixed
Oh btw jund also uses treetop village as man land. Also if want to try to keep sculler and going to start playing relic in MB, may want to also think about borrowing tech from similar build of eldrazi processor and run Wasteland Strangler which also doubles as extra removal against things like 5c humans
Just wanted to say I was dissapointed to see Stoneforge Mystic was not part of the unban party, this was the shell was most interested to try it in modern. Though will say if there is a major surge of Jace based decks the Smuggler's Copter seem well positioned as both has evasion and immune to sorcery speed effects (Lingering Souls no slouch either). On the other hand Bloodbraid Elf is likely to hurt keeping Liliana up in several matchups.
Ruin raider seems like a house for standard/limited but it's 3CC in modern is already ehhhh. Moreso this isn't a deck as I see it that is trying to be very aggresive first few turns but rather playing old necropotence strategy of eliminating opponents resources while building up card advantage. Also I just saw you kept the 4 bobs and 2 thoughtseizes...seems like a ton of life loss. Congrats on the FNM though, at very least looks like a lot of fun to pilot and just draw massive cards or die trying
@HugeElfBoy Interesting list, with the 8 vehicles does seem fair to expect pain seet to be active when desired. Was this made as more of a budget version though? Also don't you end up occasionally flooding out vehicles and not able to crew?
Congrats on another solid finish davemo! Still don't want to up the Surgical Extraction count in SB? Do see you went with a full playset of Collective Brutality in the 75. That's just mean against burn . So would I be right in guessing you sided those in for thoughtseizes against burn and for the inquisitions against coco?
tell us what you really think about Gifted Aetherborn
I agree the blue splash doubles the fetch lands and requires more shock lands so you'll end up pinging yourself 2-4 life more. Shambling can also be better vs burn with the discard as I see it as they can't target it unless you activate it, whereas they can just searing blaze the aetherborn.
Still need to test out the deck but I expect it to be my main along with saheeli combo. I was doing some reconassaince and found it interesting how orzhov seems to be the most prolific color pair in modern. Have: Eldrazi and Taxes, Eldrazi Processors, BW Tokens, BW Smallpox, Deadguy Ale off top of my head. The two closest litsts were smallpox and jeskai midrange, mainly this list: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/developing-competitive-modern/528062-mardu-dega-bwr-midrange?comment=3742 . Smallpox as I see can have punishing early plays but lacks the draw/looting this deck has and can fizle. The mardu has some cool ideas but a more punishing land base. And seems to be trying out soulfire grandmaster in the 2 slot .
Congrats davemo on the top 8 finish. I had ran Quillspike in my EDH Meren for a period (replaced with Channeler Initiate) as its a notorious infinite combo engine with devoted druid (and basically any -1/-1 repeatable shenanigans). I was using with druid + Necrotic Ooze for infinite mana/untaps. Since its such a bad card base (3cc for 1/1) its basically screaming combo. Unfortunately even Solemnity wouldn't have helped you there as viscera seer and finks would go infinite alone with it in play. Too bad Engineered Plague isn't modern legal
Good to hear you are crushing the top deck in format. Also nice to see you managed to fit in two crusader MD. Did sculler do much as a two of though? Also see you managed to avoid a burn or tron matchup. I'd probably think of adding a couple of cards in SB for the abzan matchup.
Ok if you aren't running copters I can see that being a stronger SB play. Btw I crosschecked the U/W lists on mtggoldfish metagame and was surprised to see very little if any enchantment hate. So at least for now that makes arena better but that could change with HOU.
Torpor orb is interesting...very rare I have a deck not using ETB especially since its all over my EDH decks hehe. I think it comes down to if it helps against specific matchups deck is weak against. For example it doesn't stop cards like Ballista (not a trigger).
I crosschecked rulings on Solemnity/Suspend. The gatherer on solemnity doesn't directly address, but I do see two separate issues now. First Solemnity only affects cards entering play, while suspend puts card into exile and then time counters on it. So possible doesn't stop the counters from being put on the card. Second even if it does suspend notes that the playing of the card's 2nd ability is a trigger when last time counter removed...so if it never had a time counter it will never trigger. As foretold worked for suspend as just played the card for 0cc which does work with suspend cards. So that's good, card not likely to be banned just a good hate card and make enchantment hate more needed (will hurt B/R decks as you noted). Well learned something at least
Also apparently I missed that gifted aetherborn actually has 3 toughness, could have sworn it had 2. That's a really good 2 drop. Still gets bolted but can't be traded with snapcaster and solid vs burn (gonna eat a spell).
I took brimaz out of one of my EDH decks as it feels a bit weak (Hero of Bladehold is just better there). It'll be great for cat tribal though. It's a good defensive card but has no real protection outside of 4 toughness. In this meta crusader seems much better, and as noted before we can abuse his doublestrike if using elspeth .
As per your Esper idea I think problem is you either end up slowly moving to esper control or a more U/W control splashing black. If you end up cutting Bob it's definately not deadguy anymore IMO. I still think abzan makes more sense if gonna splash a 3rd color. Ceremonious rejection is much more needed in my merfolk deck , but we have full access to W/B here. I think the only "defeat" card usable in modern is lili's, which if anything we need to look out for.
Yeah I noted I could see Solemnity banned but not strong belief in it. Its more because of its ability to be a souped up As Foretold with suspend cards. It's wide range of effects could in theory lead to a combo (or just crazy value) that can be triggered at instant speed once it resolves. At that point down to Krosan Grip. Then again I was more confident that Paradox Engine was gonna get banned in multiplayer EDH and that didn't happen. For now I can see certain lists running two in SB for the hate aspect (and possible value if also running cards like Kitchen Finks) in same vein as Stony Silence and Rest in Peace. It also could completely remove certain decks ever becoming a thing like a +1/+1 | -1/-1 counters theme in modern.
I still think Hexmage could be fun, or as a out of nowhere card opponent doesn't expect...but I can see it being too limited for spots in SB. Phyrexian Arena is an all-star in EDH, kind of forget its usable in modern. I would imagine W/U would already be looking to bring artifact/enchantment hate in VS copter so not sure how great it is post board there. Would be nice to have something uncounterable/hexproof/indestructible vs W/U, though not exactly the colors for that. Although...at one more mana can use Erebos, God of the Dead also usually used in EDH. On demand card draw, indestructible, potential late game beater (lili does add 2 devotion), and for a plus it shuts down any life gain decks/effects opponent has. Can't be pathd or otherwise targeted as creature unless have the devotion so that is often a bonus. The bitterblossom idea I like better as this deck is almost a revisioning of B/W tokens at this point and its lower CC makes it early threat and it can crew copter.
Have you tried or considered Vampire Nighthawk? Not sure worth the extra mana but gives another point of toughness and evasion over aetherborn. Other option would be Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim at 2CC if mainly want the deathtouch over lifelink. She does give an ability to turn off bob by sacking him and could be easier to turn 2 with W/B over BB. Just throwing ideas out.
I really like Kalitas as a card...not so sure about it here. Mainly as already have a few other 4CC cards and doesn't work great with paths. He's not great vs dredge, and doesn't seem decks he turns off are very popular at the moment. Unlike Anafenza creature has to go to grave from play. His biggest draw is the lifelink, but he's also a not so great 3/4 body with no evasion.
I really have been watching too much Legacy clearly lol. Ok DD banned too, well makes sense as otherwise I'd expect a lands deck in modern as thespian stage is legal. Since cold snap is modern i assumed it was, I tend to forget older banned list cards.
I actually did some more reading on card rules after my last post and I came across how CC is calculated for a card while it's on the stack. Lame. Hexmage would still nullify the chalice in play, but doesn't hurt them playing more X cards. As per the Karn I agree its more against someone who doesn't know what hexmage does and that PW loyalty counts. She does still kill any PW but yeah bit more limited than I originally thought.
One card I neglected to mention before as needs a green splash is Gaddock Teeg. Seeing a lot of 1-2 of's in SB of toolbox decks, and seen in abzan lists of deadguy in legacy. It does take care of Chalice/All is Dust/CoCo/4cc+ Planeswalkers . Sort of plays as another hatecard with Linvala in SB. Its just a bit of a target with no protection. Could replace a Godless Shrine or two with an Overgrown Tomb. Too bad can't use Deathrite Shaman also
I thought about Pithing Needle but it's useless against chalice, at best only locks out one card. On plus we'll know what opponents have most of the time. I guess could use instead of Stony Silence as can affect the most damaging artifacts while being more punishing to more card types. Maybe a one of (which you're already doing ;).
I'd look to take out: 1 Fatal Push, 1 Shadow of Doubt, 1 Celestial Purge, 1 Smallpox, and 1 Thalia, Heretic Catar. The one of everything SB works in toolbox deck or something running Wishes...not exactly what have here. I think between MD and SB should have 3 cards that can take out enchantment/artifact and ideally PW too. Watching "Against the Odds: Solemnity", idk if people would take a solemnity abuse deck to a GP yet (if legal by then) but it does have some similarity to vizier combo but can't interact with as easily. Off chance it gets banned in modern as too many possible combos with it.
The main deck crusader over blade splicer sounds intriguing especially if expect a lot of B/G matchups. Gives you that possibility of the Elspeth interaction game 1 for maybe a few easy wins.
Good luck at the PPTQ btw, interested to see the breakdown after
Thanks for tabulating the list of good/medium/bad matchups, that helps out a lot. Glad to see a deck finally have affinity in the "good" section, feels like every other deck I look into/build has it as either bad or worst lol. So overall I think this is pretty good and there are some similarities in the poorer matchups, mainly they either are graveyard interacting or are high mana/land based strategies. I crosschecked lists on mtg-goldfish meta to make sure wasn't too far off, gladly I did as I see W/U control has moved away from Celestial Colonnade and Snapcaster Mage to more planeswalker focus with Jace/Gideons. So below is a list of cards I thought of so far that could help in some/all of the troublesome matchups:
Surgical Extraction : This is actually a 4 of in my legacy list, though of course there it helps to provide a turn 0 card and can hose the reanimator strategies and dredge. A key thing to remember with this card is unlike a card like Relic of Progenitus this card can hit opponents hand as well. So it has a Cabal Therapy like play where you can turn 1 discard them and if see 2-3 of same card take it then surgical and they lose them all. This is a strong 3-4 SB card (albeit a bit pricey these days), and can work in many matchups as it feeds of our discard. A side suggestion would be to consider a Ghost Quarter in the main and one in SB to complement so can also help against tron lands and valakut itself. Also helps to make dredge matchup swing more in your favor and can either remove the Conflagrate to remove their interaction or their dredgers or even Prized Amalgam to weaken their force. Also a great card vs. combo as if you catch a piece in their hand now its gone permanently. To save life we have black mana so later we could just pay it. Lastly this lets you see opponents entire deck so can see how they SB'd against you and any tricks up their sleeve
Fulminator Mage: not as great as in decks that can replay their creatures from grave (though more on that later), this is best other option to go after tron pieces in our colors if not using ghostly quarter. Not as effective on Eldrazi tron as they care less, but this plus sugical is very strong. Since we don't have tutors going to need 2-3 copies to make worthwhile.
Solemnity: this is one of two decks I have that I can see using in modern as SB. On negative side we have no ramp so its coming down turn 3 at earliest. Though we can use discard to mediate the impact of it missing early turns. First off this card doesn't hurt us, though it doesn't directly help us either (later will note a possible idea). This turns off future chalices, ballistas, EE, ratchet bomb, and also turns off vizier combo, wrecks infect, disables Gavony Township too. Do need to be careful not to let opponent abuse the effect. Other main advantage over the next card is that as an enchantment its very likely to stick around for a while if it sticks. I think this could even be a good 1 of (multiples don't stack) as long as it negates enough things. Does not affect planeswalkers though, so both good as ours are fine but bad as doesn't help vs Ugin/Jace/Gideon/Karn. Which is why next card may be better...
Vampire Hexmage: I actually double checked this was modern legal, kind of surprised don't see more. Used in legacy lands decks. This card seems surprisingly good for us (even more so if you are someone that wants to run Hidden Stockpile). I even just realized it also has first strike so it's even a mini Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, could be useful as bob replacement against things like burn. So I thought of this thinking about solemnity and chalice. This card is great as can be used after something hits the board. But for us its also a creature we can crew with, sack and powers push as well. Some funny situations I thought of: 1) Opponent gets chalice on 1, you play and sack Hexmage making future chalices countered and making ballista unplayable . 2) Opponent plays a Karn Liberated, you have hexmage out. If he doesn't immediately hold priority and use karn's ability you kill karn. If he does use either can in response sac and kill Karn. Either way he dies. She kills ANY planeswalker, so also strong vs U/W. If you really wanted to could even try maindecking but I'd likely refrain unless have something to use her with. For the lulz....
So if don't feel SB overall is needed much for most matchups could consider going with a combo SB option. Using either or both of cards above with Dark Depths for the ultimate clock. Token is black so all is dust does get it but most other removal short of path does not....and we have plenty of discard. May just be worth the tears to try it out lol.
Humility: NOTE: looked up not modern legal.... what was gonna say: {while a bit slow this was the most potent card I could think of vs the actual Eldrazis. Since we have both elspeth and lingering souls we can easily outswarm. Checking rules vehicles do become 1/1 so would want to take copters out, however man lands do retain their normal sizes. Swing a 2/3 Shambling vents into what used to be Endbringer Reason I suggested this also is outside of discard + surgical this also can stop Primeval Titan. "That's some scary 1/1 vanilla titan you got there." Also Elspeth's pump ability still works and can put our 1/1's (or man lands) over opponents creatures. This card is pretty evil and I refuse to use it in EDH, but here seems appropriate. Lastly it can also be used to turn of Bobs so they don't kill us. Could be fun as a 1 of.}
Mirran Crusader: Know you already mentioned this was something you wanted to use in SB. Obviously great vs abzan/DS, then realized this on three and elspeth on 4, give +3/3 flying...10 damage swing in the air...possible one shot to DS. That interaction definitely makes this better here than in average list I've seen.
Disenchant: Yeah the classic, but main idea is something to take out enchantments/artifacts that doesn't get stopped with a chalice on 1. Not sure if there is something at same CC for similar effect. Could see either a 2 of, or 1 and 1 Anguished Unmaking
Liliana, the Last Hope: If using hexmage/crusader/fulminator in board this can help provide some nice resurrection for drawn out matches. Also works well with our looting filling up the yard. The +1 can also be good against the random wide weenie strategies or cards like vizier. Ultimate provides another wincon if we can just stabilize and protect. Seems like a good 1 of in SB, or depending on meta instead of another lili in main
Linvala, Keeper of Silence: see you already have in, but I agree its worth a slot. Especially that humility can't be used
I think those are some good ideas for now. I particularly like the hexmage tech, mainly for the planeswalker counter if nothing else.
Nice, I think first thing I noticed was "Slivers in modern?". I think 3 skullers are good and 4 is option. I'd probably like keeping 3 skullers / 2 brutality so can have a chance game 1 against burn or equally aggressive deck. One thing I was wondering about is if you've had any issues with a Chalice hitting board on one in this configuration. I presume you'd try to have them discard it ASAP so doesn't hit, but I count 14 cards that would be turned off including the removal and discard. Yeah makes the copter strategy wiser but still bad to have so many dead cards. Btw I don't think Sin collector is good here as you have no blink effects nor in a chord/coco shell.
I'm hoping to have last pieces to sleeve up the list, I'm gonna try Auriok Champion in Blade Slicer slot and as noted 3 Tidehollow Sculler + 2 Collective Brutality and Gideon of the Trials over 4th Liliana (I don't have a 4th anyway).
I'd like to try to help some ideas on sideboard but not sure what are the worst matchups to shore up. I'd assume it would be go wide strategies, blood moon decks, and burn. I'd presume most control matchups are good if not great (albeit slow victory), and can out value/discard the midrange. Can you provide a list of like "good / medium / bad" matchups in your experience?
My point about 4 copters was more a feel given it can't attack by itself. I could picture the 2-3 copter opening hand with little else going on and have a sad mulligan. But if your testing is showing its working then that has more validity than my prediction. I will admit it is a fun card to have out and swing/loot with so I see it as a card one may accidentally overuse due to the intangibles. I'll try 4 myself in testing as well and compare to 3.
Yeah anguished I can't see more than 1 main deck. I did a quick crosscheck of card library outside of the 4cc Utter End only other card similar was Mortify, and really only good if enchantments became an issue. I think basically I wish we had access to a card like Kolaghan's Command (btw forgot Aushiok dodges this too)
I actually realized after I posted I forgot that Auriok Champion is easily shot down by Walking Ballista. Against heavy Eldrazi meta its definately bad but solid against Burn/DS/Jund/Delver. One thing I did realize on positive end about Auriok is it also stops Saheeli combo and hurts similar strategies like Tezzerator. Maybe seeing it as a one of main deck.
Kaya I totally messed up lol . Forget sometimes that otherwise new cards in sets like conspiracy are only legacy legal. Happened before when was thinking of trying out Karlov of the Ghost Council in soul sisters.
So has anything not been working well in the new copter focused build so far? Also out of curiosity as I never played it before when using rats do you often wait till have 5 mana (outside of aggro decks) so can play and activate immediately?
@davemo88 very intrigued by your deck(s). I got into Deadguy actually for the legacy version watching some of Jeff Hoogland's videos he posted recently. While he claimed that the deck would not work well in modern, I figured I'd check to see if there was something close at least. Having a deck be cross format playable with some exchanges is my favorite to build. So I think goes without saying the back and forth on the 2 slot option would go away if Stoneforge Mystic got unbanned and throw in a Batterskull and some swords
So provided that won't happen any time soon wanted to see if could give some useful ideas/feedback. Personally I have a feeling 4x copter won't be a good idea. Even though can certainly chuck extra copies to Liliana of the Veil or active Smuggler's Copter, IDK seems like 3x would be a better ceiling. Also if you do go with 4x Tidehollow Sculler I wonder if the discard should be revisited (counting 15 cards total . Personally I think I'd try 3x Liliana's and a Gideon of the Trials at the least. Is there any good all purpose removal card to be played as a Maelstrom Pulse like slot? Vindicate I know is sadly not modern legal, and I like Anguished Unmaking but may be too much life loss. Having something to hit artifacts/enchantments in this kind of deck game 1 is IMO very strong. Though, outside of a resolved Ensnaring Bridge not sure what else would be extremely debilitating in modern. On flipside I like your explanation for Elspeth, Knight-Errant, I never really got to use her before and swinging in with a 5/6 lifelink land is pretty sweet. Between her and Lili you could make a case for Heart of Kiran as a protector and quick game ender (that also dodges bolt).
One card I was curious if you tested is Kaya, Ghost Assassin. Jeff had her in the SB and it turned out to be quite good against grindier matchups and could go toe to toe with JTMS. It also plays well after a turn 3 Liliana of the Veil as can -2 the Kaya and +1 the Lili for a -2 hand opponent and neutral for you. Also it can direct life drain so can get around cards like Worship and Ensnaring Bridge.
One idea for the 2 slot (which should at least be in SB) are a couple of Auriok Champion. First of its extra life gain so you mimimize the pain on both ends. Second its nigh unkillable as ignores Bolt, Terminate, Push, Pulse and if it eats a path that's a win. Third it can hold off Death's Shadow as well as a number of other beaters. Fourth it perfectly complements the heavy token generation this deck hopes to generate and it also helps if opponents goes wide. Fifth it isn't very offensive so its a perfect crew target for copter. As I write this I think I sold myself on 2x of these main hehe. Only question is how difficult the WW especially by turn 2. Without the Pack Rat would it hurt a lot to go down to say 3x Mutavault and add 2nd plains? Then again champion would prefer rats to skullers due to token generation...
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What I noticed btw on some streams is the expectation/reality of more Jace was apparently causing Jund to play less Kolaghan and more Maelstrom Pulse. On plus side that doesn't create 2 for 1 blowouts but that can kill any of the walkers you have out.
Kitchen finks I suppose makes sense, just feels kind of bad to have to use in DGA. Solid protector of the planeswalkers though. Although bob starts to become liability with so many high CC cards in deck.
So many issues a simple turn 3 Batterskull could have fixed
Oh btw jund also uses treetop village as man land. Also if want to try to keep sculler and going to start playing relic in MB, may want to also think about borrowing tech from similar build of eldrazi processor and run Wasteland Strangler which also doubles as extra removal against things like 5c humans
tell us what you really think about Gifted Aetherborn
I agree the blue splash doubles the fetch lands and requires more shock lands so you'll end up pinging yourself 2-4 life more. Shambling can also be better vs burn with the discard as I see it as they can't target it unless you activate it, whereas they can just searing blaze the aetherborn.
Still need to test out the deck but I expect it to be my main along with saheeli combo. I was doing some reconassaince and found it interesting how orzhov seems to be the most prolific color pair in modern. Have: Eldrazi and Taxes, Eldrazi Processors, BW Tokens, BW Smallpox, Deadguy Ale off top of my head. The two closest litsts were smallpox and jeskai midrange, mainly this list: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/developing-competitive-modern/528062-mardu-dega-bwr-midrange?comment=3742 . Smallpox as I see can have punishing early plays but lacks the draw/looting this deck has and can fizle. The mardu has some cool ideas but a more punishing land base. And seems to be trying out soulfire grandmaster in the 2 slot .
Good to hear you are crushing the top deck in format. Also nice to see you managed to fit in two crusader MD. Did sculler do much as a two of though? Also see you managed to avoid a burn or tron matchup. I'd probably think of adding a couple of cards in SB for the abzan matchup.
Ok if you aren't running copters I can see that being a stronger SB play. Btw I crosschecked the U/W lists on mtggoldfish metagame and was surprised to see very little if any enchantment hate. So at least for now that makes arena better but that could change with HOU.
Torpor orb is interesting...very rare I have a deck not using ETB especially since its all over my EDH decks hehe. I think it comes down to if it helps against specific matchups deck is weak against. For example it doesn't stop cards like Ballista (not a trigger).
I crosschecked rulings on Solemnity/Suspend. The gatherer on solemnity doesn't directly address, but I do see two separate issues now. First Solemnity only affects cards entering play, while suspend puts card into exile and then time counters on it. So possible doesn't stop the counters from being put on the card. Second even if it does suspend notes that the playing of the card's 2nd ability is a trigger when last time counter removed...so if it never had a time counter it will never trigger. As foretold worked for suspend as just played the card for 0cc which does work with suspend cards. So that's good, card not likely to be banned just a good hate card and make enchantment hate more needed (will hurt B/R decks as you noted). Well learned something at least
Also apparently I missed that gifted aetherborn actually has 3 toughness, could have sworn it had 2. That's a really good 2 drop. Still gets bolted but can't be traded with snapcaster and solid vs burn (gonna eat a spell).
I took brimaz out of one of my EDH decks as it feels a bit weak (Hero of Bladehold is just better there). It'll be great for cat tribal though. It's a good defensive card but has no real protection outside of 4 toughness. In this meta crusader seems much better, and as noted before we can abuse his doublestrike if using elspeth .
As per your Esper idea I think problem is you either end up slowly moving to esper control or a more U/W control splashing black. If you end up cutting Bob it's definately not deadguy anymore IMO. I still think abzan makes more sense if gonna splash a 3rd color. Ceremonious rejection is much more needed in my merfolk deck , but we have full access to W/B here. I think the only "defeat" card usable in modern is lili's, which if anything we need to look out for.
I still think Hexmage could be fun, or as a out of nowhere card opponent doesn't expect...but I can see it being too limited for spots in SB. Phyrexian Arena is an all-star in EDH, kind of forget its usable in modern. I would imagine W/U would already be looking to bring artifact/enchantment hate in VS copter so not sure how great it is post board there. Would be nice to have something uncounterable/hexproof/indestructible vs W/U, though not exactly the colors for that. Although...at one more mana can use Erebos, God of the Dead also usually used in EDH. On demand card draw, indestructible, potential late game beater (lili does add 2 devotion), and for a plus it shuts down any life gain decks/effects opponent has. Can't be pathd or otherwise targeted as creature unless have the devotion so that is often a bonus. The bitterblossom idea I like better as this deck is almost a revisioning of B/W tokens at this point and its lower CC makes it early threat and it can crew copter.
Have you tried or considered Vampire Nighthawk? Not sure worth the extra mana but gives another point of toughness and evasion over aetherborn. Other option would be Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim at 2CC if mainly want the deathtouch over lifelink. She does give an ability to turn off bob by sacking him and could be easier to turn 2 with W/B over BB. Just throwing ideas out.
I really like Kalitas as a card...not so sure about it here. Mainly as already have a few other 4CC cards and doesn't work great with paths. He's not great vs dredge, and doesn't seem decks he turns off are very popular at the moment. Unlike Anafenza creature has to go to grave from play. His biggest draw is the lifelink, but he's also a not so great 3/4 body with no evasion.
I actually did some more reading on card rules after my last post and I came across how CC is calculated for a card while it's on the stack. Lame. Hexmage would still nullify the chalice in play, but doesn't hurt them playing more X cards. As per the Karn I agree its more against someone who doesn't know what hexmage does and that PW loyalty counts. She does still kill any PW but yeah bit more limited than I originally thought.
One card I neglected to mention before as needs a green splash is Gaddock Teeg. Seeing a lot of 1-2 of's in SB of toolbox decks, and seen in abzan lists of deadguy in legacy. It does take care of Chalice/All is Dust/CoCo/4cc+ Planeswalkers . Sort of plays as another hatecard with Linvala in SB. Its just a bit of a target with no protection. Could replace a Godless Shrine or two with an Overgrown Tomb. Too bad can't use Deathrite Shaman also
I thought about Pithing Needle but it's useless against chalice, at best only locks out one card. On plus we'll know what opponents have most of the time. I guess could use instead of Stony Silence as can affect the most damaging artifacts while being more punishing to more card types. Maybe a one of (which you're already doing ;).
I'd look to take out: 1 Fatal Push, 1 Shadow of Doubt, 1 Celestial Purge, 1 Smallpox, and 1 Thalia, Heretic Catar. The one of everything SB works in toolbox deck or something running Wishes...not exactly what have here. I think between MD and SB should have 3 cards that can take out enchantment/artifact and ideally PW too. Watching "Against the Odds: Solemnity", idk if people would take a solemnity abuse deck to a GP yet (if legal by then) but it does have some similarity to vizier combo but can't interact with as easily. Off chance it gets banned in modern as too many possible combos with it.
The main deck crusader over blade splicer sounds intriguing especially if expect a lot of B/G matchups. Gives you that possibility of the Elspeth interaction game 1 for maybe a few easy wins.
Good luck at the PPTQ btw, interested to see the breakdown after
I think those are some good ideas for now. I particularly like the hexmage tech, mainly for the planeswalker counter if nothing else.
I'm hoping to have last pieces to sleeve up the list, I'm gonna try Auriok Champion in Blade Slicer slot and as noted 3 Tidehollow Sculler + 2 Collective Brutality and Gideon of the Trials over 4th Liliana (I don't have a 4th anyway).
I'd like to try to help some ideas on sideboard but not sure what are the worst matchups to shore up. I'd assume it would be go wide strategies, blood moon decks, and burn. I'd presume most control matchups are good if not great (albeit slow victory), and can out value/discard the midrange. Can you provide a list of like "good / medium / bad" matchups in your experience?
Yeah anguished I can't see more than 1 main deck. I did a quick crosscheck of card library outside of the 4cc Utter End only other card similar was Mortify, and really only good if enchantments became an issue. I think basically I wish we had access to a card like Kolaghan's Command (btw forgot Aushiok dodges this too)
I actually realized after I posted I forgot that Auriok Champion is easily shot down by Walking Ballista. Against heavy Eldrazi meta its definately bad but solid against Burn/DS/Jund/Delver. One thing I did realize on positive end about Auriok is it also stops Saheeli combo and hurts similar strategies like Tezzerator. Maybe seeing it as a one of main deck.
Kaya I totally messed up lol . Forget sometimes that otherwise new cards in sets like conspiracy are only legacy legal. Happened before when was thinking of trying out Karlov of the Ghost Council in soul sisters.
So has anything not been working well in the new copter focused build so far? Also out of curiosity as I never played it before when using rats do you often wait till have 5 mana (outside of aggro decks) so can play and activate immediately?
So provided that won't happen any time soon wanted to see if could give some useful ideas/feedback. Personally I have a feeling 4x copter won't be a good idea. Even though can certainly chuck extra copies to Liliana of the Veil or active Smuggler's Copter, IDK seems like 3x would be a better ceiling. Also if you do go with 4x Tidehollow Sculler I wonder if the discard should be revisited (counting 15 cards total . Personally I think I'd try 3x Liliana's and a Gideon of the Trials at the least. Is there any good all purpose removal card to be played as a Maelstrom Pulse like slot? Vindicate I know is sadly not modern legal, and I like Anguished Unmaking but may be too much life loss. Having something to hit artifacts/enchantments in this kind of deck game 1 is IMO very strong. Though, outside of a resolved Ensnaring Bridge not sure what else would be extremely debilitating in modern. On flipside I like your explanation for Elspeth, Knight-Errant, I never really got to use her before and swinging in with a 5/6 lifelink land is pretty sweet. Between her and Lili you could make a case for Heart of Kiran as a protector and quick game ender (that also dodges bolt).
One card I was curious if you tested is Kaya, Ghost Assassin. Jeff had her in the SB and it turned out to be quite good against grindier matchups and could go toe to toe with JTMS. It also plays well after a turn 3 Liliana of the Veil as can -2 the Kaya and +1 the Lili for a -2 hand opponent and neutral for you. Also it can direct life drain so can get around cards like Worship and Ensnaring Bridge.
One idea for the 2 slot (which should at least be in SB) are a couple of Auriok Champion. First of its extra life gain so you mimimize the pain on both ends. Second its nigh unkillable as ignores Bolt, Terminate, Push, Pulse and if it eats a path that's a win. Third it can hold off Death's Shadow as well as a number of other beaters. Fourth it perfectly complements the heavy token generation this deck hopes to generate and it also helps if opponents goes wide. Fifth it isn't very offensive so its a perfect crew target for copter. As I write this I think I sold myself on 2x of these main hehe. Only question is how difficult the WW especially by turn 2. Without the Pack Rat would it hurt a lot to go down to say 3x Mutavault and add 2nd plains? Then again champion would prefer rats to skullers due to token generation...