Kaya's guile seems pretty weak even with being very flexible, silent clearing might be good if BW lent itself to more aggressive strategies, nether spirit is fine I guess if you're running a creatureless deck for some reason, ransack would have been great if it were only 1 mana, but at 2 mana it's probably just not good enough, force of despair just doesn't strike me as playable since it only destroys creatures played in the same turn and shatter assumptions is a turn too slow to be good against tron while being perfectly useless against affinity.
They made plenty of cards that were almost good for sure, but they stopped short of making them good enough to actually see anything but casual play in the format they were designed for.
So to me it looks like there isn't a single card in modern horizons that BW midrange wants. Have I missed something or is this just another set with no new tools for us in it?
Been trying this recently. So far I'm very pleased with Serra avenger. Never really feel the drawback of not being able to play it early since the first few turns are spent disrupting the opponent. 3/3 flying vigilance is just straight good for two mana. I understand that there will be skepticism, but just give it a try if you haven't.
The zealous persecution is a new addition I hadn't tried mainboard before. I'm still not exactly sure about it, but it has such a high ceiling that it seems worth the inclusion as a 1-of.
I'm actually really liking this deck for the current meta. The more people move toward linear solitaire-esque decks, the better unrelenting disruption seems.
Edit: after further testing Gifted aetherborn seems better in those slots. I'm also wondering if this deck couldn't use a second copy of path in the main.
I don't know that you need 3 Gideon AoZ, one or two should be good.
As someone who wasn't sold on the mainboard fulminator I see where you're coming from. I'm not sure that it's the best we can do, but sometimes it lines up perfectly. Opponent is stuck on 2 lands, blow one up. They flipped a search for azcanta, blow it up. They have a celestial collonade, play fulminator and dare them to activate it.
Definitely think Vault is the right land to cut. It just doesn't do anything (other than possibly make your mana a little awkward in the early game) most of the time.
Even when it's relevant your opponent will just avoid combat as much as possible until they have some means of recovering from it.
Ended up scrapping the previous changes for this. I still maintain that Serra avenger was solid, but I think this creature lineup is better overall.
I still also maintain that fulminator is underwhelming most of the time, but I'm going to keep trying it. Surely it's impactful sometimes if so many people sideboard it.
The 2 Kalitas are a mainboard hedge against dredge and they can just snowball games anyway.
The board is flush with boardwipes because siding into so many of them is devastating against any go-wide small creature deck. In my experience, humans is pretty rough in game 1, but afterwards a good boardwipe or two and it's smooth sailing.
Also, I went down to 24 lands. More often than not with 25 I was getting to 10-12 lands with almost nothing/stone nothing to spend all that mana on.
Not being able to cast Avenger until turn 4 is fine in my opinion. I generally spend the first few turns on the disruption plan anyway. It's happened a few times now that on turn 4 I'll play an avenger and a bob. Feels like pretty good headway dropping a beater and a card advantage engine on the same turn after dumpstering your opponent's game plan for the previous 3.
As for empty the pits as oppose to secure the wastes, you can't delve for secure. Empty only costs more than 4 Mana if you have it to spare, otherwise you pay 4 and delve your whole graveyard which we aren't using anyway other than lingering souls. I wouldn't want more than one, but it's pretty spicy when it comes up.
As for fulminator, at one point I tried 3 fulminator and 3 ghost quarter (for the earliest possible interaction) against Tron and still got destroyed every time. I've boarded it for other matchups and it usually either does nothing at all or feels too slow to make much impact unless your opponent is already having mana problems.
Would like some opinions on a few things I've been trying.
2 Serra avenger in place of 2 Sculler in the main (shifting those scullers to the sideboard). Sculler isn't always great, but in the right matchups it's pretty devastating so I still want access to all 4. Having the 3/3 flying vigilance has been pretty potent so far.
A one-of empty the pits either main or side. This deck doesn't exactly dump cards into the graveyard, but in games that go longer it can be an abrupt pivot to being the beatdown if you cast it for a large sum on your opponent's endstep.
I'm also kind of considering dropping fulminators altogether. I just don't see beating Tron as a possibility so it's possible that we could use the slots to shore up matchups that aren't so lopsided. If I'm mistaken on this let me know though.
I tried going down to 24 lands and it can hurt sometimes. Of course, at the same time with 25 lands you're pretty likely to flood.
To try to mitigate both of these I've started running 3 mutavaults and 3 shambling vents. It seems to be working well for me so far which only adds to my surprise that the previously posted list shaved a manland instead.
I probably should have stated that I don't play SSV, but use a Gideon Ally and Gideon of the trials instead. That frees up a 4 drop slot for the Kalitas.
I also tried gifted aetherborn in this deck for a bit. While I do think it's a good card I've ended up putting a Brimaz and a Kalitas in those slots.
For 3 mana, Brimaz is just ridiculous and while Kalitas has pretty much vanished from modern it can still take over games almost singlehandedly. Lifelink, tokens, incidental graveyard strategy hate and the fact that it can eat its own tokens, late-game scullers that didn't have targets and the tokens that Sorin produces in order to outgrow everything else in play makes Kalitas a strong choice in my opinion.
I feel like anguished unmaking is a good sideboard card if you have the space for it due to its flexibility. I don't know that I'd play it mainboard though.
Personally I've been using a single path to exile in that slot and I like it better than cast down due to having no restrictions on the kind of creatures it can target.
AU is a fine card for a number of matchups, but against aggressive decks it's probably not worth the life loss over a different removal spell. Also, the only noncreature permanent I can think of that I really don't want to have to play against is leyline of sanctity. I feel we have enough disruption that most everything else isn't too much of a problem if we can restrict the opponent's resources sufficiently.
Inquisition + thoughtseize + Sculler + Liliana is a brutal recipe for breaking up synergy and a single powerful card (like Jace or azcanta etc.) doesn't usually seem to be enough for them to mount a comeback in my experience.
To the people running Nassif's list, how do you feel about the mutavaults over running 4 shambling vent?
I could see them being good, but they could also possibly make casting Sculler and Liliana awkward or impossible in the early turns if you dont draw more colored lands in that timeframe.
4 vent has been fine for me, bit if a 3-2 split and an Urborg is better then that's where I want to be.
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They made plenty of cards that were almost good for sure, but they stopped short of making them good enough to actually see anything but casual play in the format they were designed for.
Been trying this recently. So far I'm very pleased with Serra avenger. Never really feel the drawback of not being able to play it early since the first few turns are spent disrupting the opponent. 3/3 flying vigilance is just straight good for two mana. I understand that there will be skepticism, but just give it a try if you haven't.
The zealous persecution is a new addition I hadn't tried mainboard before. I'm still not exactly sure about it, but it has such a high ceiling that it seems worth the inclusion as a 1-of.
I'm actually really liking this deck for the current meta. The more people move toward linear solitaire-esque decks, the better unrelenting disruption seems.
Edit: after further testing Gifted aetherborn seems better in those slots. I'm also wondering if this deck couldn't use a second copy of path in the main.
As someone who wasn't sold on the mainboard fulminator I see where you're coming from. I'm not sure that it's the best we can do, but sometimes it lines up perfectly. Opponent is stuck on 2 lands, blow one up. They flipped a search for azcanta, blow it up. They have a celestial collonade, play fulminator and dare them to activate it.
It's fairly slow, but it does synergize with the 3 mutavaults many lists (mine included) run and turns dead draws into live ones.
With maelstrom pulse being at an all-time low in GBx decks thanks to trophy the only deck that can hose it is UW with D-Sphere and their boardwipes.
Might a minimal number pack rats be a worthy inclusion?
Even when it's relevant your opponent will just avoid combat as much as possible until they have some means of recovering from it.
Ended up scrapping the previous changes for this. I still maintain that Serra avenger was solid, but I think this creature lineup is better overall.
I still also maintain that fulminator is underwhelming most of the time, but I'm going to keep trying it. Surely it's impactful sometimes if so many people sideboard it.
The 2 Kalitas are a mainboard hedge against dredge and they can just snowball games anyway.
The board is flush with boardwipes because siding into so many of them is devastating against any go-wide small creature deck. In my experience, humans is pretty rough in game 1, but afterwards a good boardwipe or two and it's smooth sailing.
Also, I went down to 24 lands. More often than not with 25 I was getting to 10-12 lands with almost nothing/stone nothing to spend all that mana on.
Should have posted that before, my bad.
Not being able to cast Avenger until turn 4 is fine in my opinion. I generally spend the first few turns on the disruption plan anyway. It's happened a few times now that on turn 4 I'll play an avenger and a bob. Feels like pretty good headway dropping a beater and a card advantage engine on the same turn after dumpstering your opponent's game plan for the previous 3.
As for empty the pits as oppose to secure the wastes, you can't delve for secure. Empty only costs more than 4 Mana if you have it to spare, otherwise you pay 4 and delve your whole graveyard which we aren't using anyway other than lingering souls. I wouldn't want more than one, but it's pretty spicy when it comes up.
As for fulminator, at one point I tried 3 fulminator and 3 ghost quarter (for the earliest possible interaction) against Tron and still got destroyed every time. I've boarded it for other matchups and it usually either does nothing at all or feels too slow to make much impact unless your opponent is already having mana problems.
2 Serra avenger in place of 2 Sculler in the main (shifting those scullers to the sideboard). Sculler isn't always great, but in the right matchups it's pretty devastating so I still want access to all 4. Having the 3/3 flying vigilance has been pretty potent so far.
A one-of empty the pits either main or side. This deck doesn't exactly dump cards into the graveyard, but in games that go longer it can be an abrupt pivot to being the beatdown if you cast it for a large sum on your opponent's endstep.
I'm also kind of considering dropping fulminators altogether. I just don't see beating Tron as a possibility so it's possible that we could use the slots to shore up matchups that aren't so lopsided. If I'm mistaken on this let me know though.
To try to mitigate both of these I've started running 3 mutavaults and 3 shambling vents. It seems to be working well for me so far which only adds to my surprise that the previously posted list shaved a manland instead.
I also tried gifted aetherborn in this deck for a bit. While I do think it's a good card I've ended up putting a Brimaz and a Kalitas in those slots.
For 3 mana, Brimaz is just ridiculous and while Kalitas has pretty much vanished from modern it can still take over games almost singlehandedly. Lifelink, tokens, incidental graveyard strategy hate and the fact that it can eat its own tokens, late-game scullers that didn't have targets and the tokens that Sorin produces in order to outgrow everything else in play makes Kalitas a strong choice in my opinion.
Personally I've been using a single path to exile in that slot and I like it better than cast down due to having no restrictions on the kind of creatures it can target.
AU is a fine card for a number of matchups, but against aggressive decks it's probably not worth the life loss over a different removal spell. Also, the only noncreature permanent I can think of that I really don't want to have to play against is leyline of sanctity. I feel we have enough disruption that most everything else isn't too much of a problem if we can restrict the opponent's resources sufficiently.
Inquisition + thoughtseize + Sculler + Liliana is a brutal recipe for breaking up synergy and a single powerful card (like Jace or azcanta etc.) doesn't usually seem to be enough for them to mount a comeback in my experience.
I could see them being good, but they could also possibly make casting Sculler and Liliana awkward or impossible in the early turns if you dont draw more colored lands in that timeframe.
4 vent has been fine for me, bit if a 3-2 split and an Urborg is better then that's where I want to be.