Sooo I'm not sure where I'd post this, but this Thread seems pretty on-topic for this idea.
I'd like to see if there's a viable Build that would use the synergy between Karn, Scion of Urza and Tidehollow Sculler. Between Sculler, some vehicles like Looter Scooter or Heart, 3-drop Planeswalkers like Lili or Gid of the Trials, and also running the usual Lingering Souls and discard/removal package, that you'd have a fantastic disruption package with a really powerful grinding engine in Karn. Making a 4/4 or drawing you cards every few turns sounds incredibly powerful, and I feel like if I could figure out a truly nasty creature package to pair this idea with, it could have a lot of potential.
@vibql List looks solid, not sure how I like Stony Silence in the sideboard though, since both Smuggler's Copter and Thraben Inspector are effected by it. I think we are favored against Affinity and in my experience it only helps slightly against Tron, so unless you play against a lot of Lantern or Ad Naseam, I would replace it with something else. Also, how is Gideon's Intervention working out for you? I have never tried it, seems a little too slow to have an impact.
@Cody_X Can you post or pm me your list? Always happy to see different takes on the deck.
On another note, in the last PTQ two BW midrange decks went 7-1. First one is BW Control with Planeswalkers, second one is similar to my current approach playing Monastery Mentor. Main difference is it playes the full playset of Zealous Persecution and no Mishra's Bauble or Sorin, Solemn Visitor like I do. Went 3-2 last FNM btw, beating Grixis Shadow, Storm and GW Company, losing to Burn and Mono White Enchantments.
Regarding Freebooter and the red splash, I agree with all the points mentioned by Cody. Freebooter can actually become a reasonably sized threat in the humans deck thanks to Thalia's Lieutenant and Mayor of Avabruck, but here we have no tribal synergies to exploit, so it's a worse Sculler.
I finally got my Bobs last week and have been experimenting with different versions of the deck since. I'm convinced the Smuggler's Copter - Tidehollow Sculler - Dark Confidant + Souls/Removal/Discard route is where I want to be, but I have not found a second 3-drop besides Souls that I like. Blade splicer is good to crew Copter, but without blink effects I feel its power level is just not good enough for modern. I also tried Liliana of the Veil, but found myself with too little action too often.
For tonights FNM at my LGS, I'm going to test one of my pet cards in the 3-drop slot: Monastery Mentor. I played Esper Mentor for about a year before Gitaxian Probe was banned. Main problem with the card was always to get value before it dies to removal. In BW colors we obviously have no access to blue cantrips for crazy cantrip-chains, but a lot more disruption to protect Mentor. With T1 discard, T2 Sculler/Bob, most decks won't have an answer to T3 Mentor (except maybe Jeskai or Jund). Sculler and Bob protect/eat removal for Mentor and Bob can provide fodder for Mentor. Also, Mentor itself and its tokens are good crew targets for Copter. Bob alone probably isn't enough to fuel Mentor with spells, so instead of blue cantrips I will run Mishra's Bauble. It can be played with Mentor on T3 and works well with Bob for obvious reasons. There also is the cute little trick to target oneself with Bauble during your opponent's turn and then put either Bauble's trigger or Bob's trigger first on your upkeep depending on the CMC of the card to safe life.
I played DGA as my second deck in Modern a couple years ago. Never really got over the Orzhov bug, but have been trying some different angles for quite a while. Right now I'm on a BW Superfriends build I cooked up, and it has been surprisingly good--it's the second link in my sig if any are interested in a different angle on BW Midrange in Modern.
Cheers to all.
I really like your take on the deck, although it is definitely BW control and not BW midrange. A few suggestions/questions:
- I would run 6 fetches and only 2 Shocks. Makes Push better and you have a higher chance to fetch early basics against Blood Moon.
- I do not see the reason to play Caves of Koilos since there are no Eldrazi. Maybe just play more basics like a 3/2 Swamp/Plains split?
- Liliana. the Last Hope 2nd ability is completely dead...if you want something against small creatures I would rather play Darkblast or one of the 3cmc sweepers.
- One reason I hesitate to run a BW Control/midrange build myself is the lack of good catch-all answers. BGx has Abrupt Decay and Maelstrom Pulse while the only similar card in Orzhov is Anguished Unmaking which really hurts with Thoughtseize, Bitterblossom, Nights Whisper.... I imagine you have problems with enchantments/artifacts like Ensnaring Bridge if they sneak past discard, at least game one?
Overall I really like the build though, thanks for sharing!
I'm not a fan of this list to be honest. The curve is relativly high with 10x 3cmc, 2x 4cmc and 2x 5cmc. You have lifegain to offset the damage you take from Bob triggers, but I imagine that Baneslayer will come down too late in most situations you need the lifelink. Also I think Blessed Alliance is not where you want to be when you play Bob since it is a defensive card, while Bob wants your deck to be agressive and disruptive. Same goes for Gideon of the Trials. In UW Control, there is Wall of Omens and Sweepers like Supreme Verdict to support it, but here it will rarely be able to attack without being killed on the backswing. Lastly, Bob is your only (early) target for removal, so it probably won't get you any value. In general, I follow the rule "Either provide no removal targets at all or overload on them so the opponent cannot kill them all". Your deck seems to be stuck between midrange and control, it does not focus on one strategy. I could be wrong of course, so if it works out for you that's perfectly fine. It is just what strikes me when looking at the list.
Hello everyone, I didnt post for some months in this thread but I keep reading it every week.
I've played Deadguy ale in modern for a long time, at least 3 diferent builds. Last week I was thinking in taking another direction, for fun and to try new cards I tought in splashing a third color...
I know i wanna keep playing Lingering souls, discard spells, and good removal.
So there is Mardu, Esper and Abzan.
Abzan is tier 1 I think, pretty straightforward midrange strategy, I checked some Abzan soul lists, there isnt a single one without goyf so im out.
Mardu looks very nice, you got Bolt, helix, more planeswalkers, and Kolaghan's Command
Esper looks pretty solid too, snapcaster, C.command, Esper charm is beautifull, the new Ancestral vision...
So I decided to try a Esper list, throwed some cards I like and create this:
Its the first time I do not included liliana in my first version of some deck (Im a lili fanboy)
I picked carefully my creatures, hard to kill via protection (4 colores with sword), hexproof, then tokens and snapcaster as the only target for enemy removal.
Please let me know your thoughts...
Some cards I could be missing: Colective brutality, Sorins, Elspeth, Counters?, spell's queller, lots of etc
Hey there, I am playing an Esper midrange version myself for about a year now. First of all, there is a separate Esper thread in the developing competitive section, so you are probably better off posting your list there, but here is some "first aid" advice:
- First question: What type of game do you want to play? Your list is somewhere between midrange and control. IMO, it is better to dedicate to one strategy. Cryptic command and ancestral vision are both really good cards, but only become powerful in the lategame (even though I see the Cryptic - Geist synergy). If you want more fuel in the lategame, I would add more Esper Charm or look into something like Tasigur, the Golden Fang, both serving an additional purpose (hand disruption respectively more threats). Cryptic also makes your manabase very difficult and painful: You want black on T1 for discard, double white for Crusader or BWU for Charm on T3 and triple blue for Cryptic on T4.
- If you want to pursue the Geist of Saint Traft and Mirran Crusader midrange plan, both of them literally scream for Elspeth, Knight-Errant. She also works well with Snappies or Shambling Vent. Another interesting card I have yet to test in conjunction with Geist and Crusader is Dusk // Dawn. Probably a sideboard card, though. The equipment package is cute, but probably to slow in most games.
- If you play Esper Charm, not playing Lili is the right choice I feel. They do not go together well.
- Counters and Spell Queller are sideboard material against combo and control (at least in a midrange deck). Collective Brutality is really flexible. I play it as a 1of in most of my lists.
- Another card to consider is Serum Visions. Reduces mulligans, shuffels away useles discard in the lategame, go well with Snaps and Tasigur, etc...
If you are on the copter plan, I can recommend Blade Splicer as a very effective way to crew it. The 2 bodies also work well together with anthem effects from Sorin or Gideon. If Elspeth, Knight-Errant is your 4-drop of choice, it is hard to pass up Mirran Crusader, either in the sideboard or even 1-2 maindeck, since Shadow, Tasigur and Fatal Push is everywhere these days.